You have to remember Americas number one business is guns, import and export, military and civilian. America runs on death (sorry guys)
Of course the US is a more violent country when comparing it to Norway. We have about a million more problems than they do.
[editline]11th July 2015[/editline]
It's like comparing Bar Harbor, Maine with Detroit and saying "wow why can't Detroit get its shit together like Bar Harbor?"
[QUOTE=Faunze;48178944]You have to remember Americas number one business is guns, import and export, military and civilian. America runs on death (sorry guys)[/QUOTE]
Our chief export actually remains media. We run on mindless consumption.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;48177485]Guns and crime are not rampants in both countries. Perhaps they should also include the number of cops killed by fire arms each year two.[/QUOTE]
According to Wikipedia, 10 Norwegian police officers have been killed in service since 1945. On the other hand, 21 American police officers have been murdered this year, 16 by shooting.
Wow, even less than Finland, which was like 4 in 2014.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;48177535]Police militarized in the U.S is overstated, people make a big deal because they see disarmed military vehicles being used as riot or siege vehicles.
And your comparing a country with very strict gun control to a country with very little gun control and using that to say "A lot more people are shot by police". Well no shit.[/QUOTE]
Also different demographics. Homogenous countries with collectivist traditions end up not having as much problems in that department as multi-ethnic ones. Hell, look at crime in Norway , and you'd see that Balkan and Muslim immigrants commit a lot of the total crime.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48177818]and those 1,4 million are not counting the legally unregistered shotguns, which are estimated to be about 700 000. so over 2 million guns in a country of just above 5,1 million people, yet there is close to zero gun violence with legally acquired guns[/QUOTE]
Which is a fairly compelling argument that the guns aren't the problem :v:
[QUOTE=teh pirate;48181052]Which is a fairly compelling argument that the guns aren't the problem :v:[/QUOTE]
I doubt the guns is 100% of the problem but a part of it. Probably more inclined to say that the us gun violence is caused by lack of education and segregation
[QUOTE=Toyhobo;48181473]I doubt the guns is 100% of the problem but a part of it. Probably more inclined to say that the us gun violence is caused by lack of education and segregation[/QUOTE]
Here's something from the mouth of Michael Bloomberg, the former mayor of New York and the main financier of Anti-Gun organizations in the USA.
[URL]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/8/sughed-michael-bloomberg-suggests-disarming-minori/[/URL]
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;48177447]Also worth noting the United States is home to over 300 million people. Of course the incidences of police shootings are going to be elevated compared to a nation with a far smaller population - there's more violent offenders threatening the lives of our officers.
[sp]I'm still against the bullshit that's going on in the US, but I think making the comparison between the US and Norway and other foreign police forces is skewed because of the demographic differences.[/sp][/QUOTE]
A lot of people make it the case for gun control, but I think the situation in the USA is so radically different that such a thing may not help.
The problem in America isn't accessibility to guns, it is gun culture. Europe in general has lower violent crime rates. I think this has to do with how World War Two shaped the outlook on firearms, the military, and violence in general.
Europe was devastated by war. To them, it was a clear example of why violence is not the answer and it is likely responsible for the relative amount of pacifism in Western European countries. The US on the other hand won the war with force of arms without suffering the adverse effects that European countries did. It demonstrated the complete opposite to the American public; violence can be a solution.
Another point of comparison is Japan, where violent crime is almost non-existent. Having been on the receiving end of that war has instilled a lot of pacifism into the public conscience.
There is also the fact that Americans have had an irrational obsession with guns. Even FP is littered with gun nuts. They are everywhere, and I think it has to do with the lack of traumatic wars in the US. There have been about 3 wars that actually saw foreign troops on the mainland: the Revolution, the War of 1812, and the American Civil War. In every other war, [I]we[/I] were the invaders.
Just food for thought.
While it is a great thing to be able to brag about, it does not make other countries worse or better.
Yes the US can learn a lot from other countries and their info like this, but you have to keep in mind that gun violence is a symptom of a far greater problem. You need to look at countries education system, health/mental care systems, judicial systems, types of jails/prisons and what type of rehabilitation they do, jobs/min-wage, amount of employed people vs unemployment and vice versa.
There are many parts of the U.S where gun related deaths are rare and other parts of the U.S that gun related deaths are a daily issue. The demographics of each state and the actual condition of each state vary - some states are bankrupt while some are doing good.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;48182111]A lot of people make it the case for gun control, but I think the situation in the USA is so radically different that such a thing may not help.
The problem in America isn't accessibility to guns, it is gun culture. Europe in general has lower violent crime rates. I think this has to do with how World War Two shaped the outlook on firearms, the military, and violence in general.
Europe was devastated by war. To them, it was a clear example of why violence is not the answer and it is likely responsible for the relative amount of pacifism in Western European countries. The US on the other hand won the war with force of arms without suffering the adverse effects that European countries did. It demonstrated the complete opposite to the American public; violence can be a solution.
Another point of comparison is Japan, where violent crime is almost non-existent. Having been on the receiving end of that war has instilled a lot of pacifism into the public conscience.
There is also the fact that Americans have had an irrational obsession with guns. Even FP is littered with gun nuts. They are everywhere, and I think it has to do with the lack of traumatic wars in the US. There have been about 3 wars that actually saw foreign troops on the mainland: the Revolution, the War of 1812, and the American Civil War. In every other war, [I]we[/I] were the invaders.
Just food for thought.[/QUOTE]
what is this gun culture you speak off because hunters, enthusiasts and other responsible gun owners seem to stay out of trouble when it comes to gun violence. Hell even CHL holders hardly use their weapons.
Do you know who use guns the most to kill people? Criminals, gangs, mentally unstable, etc. Take away guns and guess what these people will do? They'll find an other way to do what they want, you know because they don't care anyway.
America knows war very well - lets not forget pearl harbor and such. Just because it didn't happen on American soil does not mean people don't know the traumas of war. All honesty Europe doesn't have guns because of the devastation of war.
For example, gun bans didn't really come in to play in the UK around 1900's even then you could still get one. The big ban didn't come around till Dunblane massacre in the late 90's, it was a shooting that took the lives of children. Even after gun bans people can still own them with very serious restrictions.
Even most of Europe doesn't out right ban guns, there are just heavy heavy restrictions.
You can blame "gun culture" and make very blanket statements like you did but all you're doing is simplifying a symptom of a far greater problem in the heart of America. You can take away the guns and put as many restrictions on them but it wouldn't change a thing - because you didn't fix what was causing these issues to begin with. It is scapegoating at its finest in my opinion, do we blame a car problem for car related attacks (People have been ran over in mass before)..no we blame the person. When someone stabs someone to death do we blame the knife? No we blame the person. But for some reason when a gun is involved it isn't about the person, it is about the gun and it turns in to a "Well this wouldn't have happened if x and y was banned."
Those involved in the gun culture as a rule of thumb follow the law, because if you're a felon that shit gets taken away / No more dakka.
[QUOTE=Toyhobo;48181473]I doubt the guns is 100% of the problem but a part of it. Probably more inclined to say that the us gun violence is caused by lack of education and segregation[/QUOTE]
The vast majority of gun violence is interracial, not between races. (blacks killing blacks, and whites killing whites) So I'm not sure how you could attribute it to segregation.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48183393]The vast majority of gun violence is interracial, not between races. (blacks killing blacks, and whites killing whites) So I'm not sure how you could attribute it to segregation.[/QUOTE]
I understood his point as in segregation of neighborhoods, aka the existence of "ghettos" where poverty is high and so is crime, and emergency services are your enemy.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;48182111]
Another point of comparison is Japan, where violent crime is almost non-existent. Having been on the receiving end of that war has instilled a lot of pacifism into the public conscience.[/QUOTE]
When two Japanese businessmen get into a drunk argument they don't have guns to kill eachother. That probably helps.
In fact, a disarmed populace is better for the police. They don't have to worry about everybody potentially killing them with a modern assault rifle or hidden pistol. It probably does make them less trigger happy.
Japanese Culture is not comparable to Western Culture, it's extremely different in more ways that can be listed.
[editline]12th July 2015[/editline]
Also police don't need to worry about taking fire from a "modern assault rifle" because those are banned, except the ones that were registered before the ban, which cost thousands to license and thousands more to purchase, nobody's going to spend that much on a gun to use in crimes.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48183428]When two Japanese businessmen get into a drunk argument they don't have guns to kill eachother. That probably helps.
In fact, a disarmed populace is better for the police. They don't have to worry about everybody potentially killing them with a modern assault rifle or hidden pistol. It probably does make them less trigger happy.[/QUOTE]
But norway has guns and the police still doesn't have to worry about being shot.
[QUOTE=jiggu;48184152]But norway has guns and the police still doesn't have to worry about being shot.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps regulating who has guns, caring for the poor, rehabilitating criminals, etc is good for social harmony.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48184183]Perhaps regulating who has guns, [I]caring for the poor, rehabilitating criminals, etc is good for social harmony.[/I][/QUOTE]
reminds me this post:
[url]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/cquillin/Political/Guns%20in%20Switzerland_zpsr46uv3gz.png[/url]
[quote]I am a Swiss citizen living in Switzerland. What this fails to mention is the fact that ammunition can not be kept at home. It must stay at the shooting range or military barracks. All men here have to do "military time" it's more like boy scouts here until age 28. Also, concealed pistol permits are nearly impossible to come by. What the US should be looking to mimic from the Swiss is the fact that every single job here guarantees 4 weeks min paid vacation, 16 weeks paid maternity leave for new moms, and a secure safety net for people that find themselves unemployed. But hey the rifles are cool too :)[/quote]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48184183]Perhaps regulating who has guns, caring for the poor, rehabilitating criminals, etc is good for social harmony.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much. Mental Healthcare and education would solve the majority of this country's problems.
But nope we gotta spend more in our defense budget than the entire GDP of a dozen third world countries combined.
[QUOTE=MedicWine;48184255]reminds me this post:
[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mind an official government boyscouts and girlscouts program being a heavily advertised either.
don't worry, when hordes come those small amount of guns those forces got will not matter anyway
doesn't matter if it's gunna be new Vandals, zombies or ETs ;)
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