BREAKING: Switzerland gunman 'kills three' in Daillon - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Pandamox;39074534]Except not every male between 18-30 has an assault rifle because it's incredibly easy to get out of their "mandatory" military service (I have more than a few friends that are swiss and got out of it after a few years), and even with that do you seriously think that means EVERY citizen has one? no.[/QUOTE] Either way, they have the 4th highest gun ownership and one of the lowest murder rates in the world

[QUOTE=download;39074556]Either way, they have the 4th highest gun ownership and one of the lowest murder rates in the world[/QUOTE] Japan has almost no private gun ownership and also an extremely low murder rate, far lower than even Switzerland. Can you stop using bullshit facts to push your political agenda in completely unrelated threads.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;39074538]Not only is this a pop-sensationalist bullshit factoid you got entirely unresearched from the internet, but maybe Switzerlands low crime rate has to do with the huge amount of social welfare they have and almost completely amicable relations with every nation on the planet.[/QUOTE] I'd bet that if you banned firearms ownership in Switzerland they'd see an increase in crime.

[QUOTE=download;39074491]Doesn't include military weapons in the hands of ever male between 18 and 30[/QUOTE] Source? Edit: I got my numbers from Ownered's wikipedia link. Didn't see anything about not including the service weapons. I'm pretty sure all weapons in that country are accounted for else there's no way it'd be so high.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;39074590]Japan has almost no private gun ownership and also an extremely low murder rate, far lower than even Switzerland. Can you stop using bullshit facts to push your political agenda in completely unrelated threads.[/QUOTE] You don't get to decide what is and isn't related. If nobody came in arguing in favor of gun ownership it'd be an anti-gun circlejerk and you wouldn't say anything about it.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;39074460]45.7 in 100. So almost 50 % of the population if they are spread out evenly.[/QUOTE] All men who leave the mandatory military service do so with a gun courtesy of their government.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39074591]I'd bet that if you banned firearms ownership in Switzerland they'd see an increase in crime.[/QUOTE] There is no conclusive evidence that shows more private firearms ownership leads to less crime so you would be arguing against the scientific method there.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;39074590]Japan has almost no private gun ownership and also an extremely low murder rate, far lower than even Switzerland. [/QUOTE] Low murder rate, very high suicide rate. Culture plays a big part in this sort of thing.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;39074630]There is no conclusive evidence that shows more private firearms ownership leads to less crime so you would be arguing against the scientific method there.[/QUOTE] So are you, by saying that gun ownership[I] alone[/I] leads to an increase in crime. In Switzerland, 45% of the population is armed and you see very little crime. The difference between the US and Switzerland is that they also have much better mental health care and far less people living in squalor and as a result people are less motivated to go kill other people, be it with a gun or some other tool.

[QUOTE=download;39074556]Either way, they have the 4th highest gun ownership and one of the lowest murder rates in the world[/QUOTE] And you can't say one is because of the other. There are SEVERAL other countries which have far, far lower gun ownership than both Switzerland and the US (Japan is a good example) where their crime rate is also exponentially lower. Less crime in switzerland isn't because of more guns, it's because of better social welfare, economic stability, and a more distributed money supply unlike the US. [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=teh pirate;39074591]I'd bet that if you banned firearms ownership in Switzerland they'd see an increase in crime.[/QUOTE] I like how you have a whole lot of evidence and sourcing to back this up. You're just spewing stupid shit

[QUOTE=Pandamox;39074657]And you can't say one is because of the other. There are SEVERAL other countries which have far, far lower gun ownership than both Switzerland and the US (Japan is a good example) where their crime rate is also exponentially lower. Less crime in switzerland isn't because of more guns, it's because of better social welfare, economic stability, and a more distributed money supply unlike the US.[/QUOTE] So you acknowledge up-front that guns aren't the issue. How can you still argue in favor of banning them???

[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;39074645]Low murder rate, very high suicide rate. Culture plays a big part in this sort of thing.[/QUOTE] Not sure if you're trying to say their high suicide rate is even comparable to the murder rate in the US and such? [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=teh pirate;39074677]So you acknowledge up-front that guns aren't the issue. How can you still argue in favor of banning them???[/QUOTE] Point out where i said we should ban guns

[QUOTE=Pandamox;39074680]Point out where i said we should ban guns[/QUOTE] Then what is your point? e: Why is the dumb rating used in place of disagree? "If you disagree with me, it's because you're a dumbass!"

[QUOTE=Swebonny;39074598]Source? Edit: I got my numbers from Ownered's wikipedia link. Didn't see anything about not including the service weapons. I'm pretty sure all weapons in that country are accounted for else there's no way it'd be so high.[/QUOTE] According to gunpolicy.org there are 3.4million privately owned firearms (most of these would be ex-service weapons, you get to keep your rifle when you leave the service), and 325k military weapons. Doing the math that works out to be about 48 guns per 100 people

[QUOTE=Pandamox;39074680]Not sure if you're trying to say their high suicide rate is even comparable to the murder rate in the US and such? [/QUOTE] Meaning to say that you can't only consider guns as a cause for something like this. Mental health, how guns are treated, and other factors are in play here. (Not sure what your stance is, some would have guns banned without considering other factors at play here which may be more important.)

[QUOTE=faze;39074327]Uh Switzerland requires that all citizens are armed. This country has the lowest crime rate in the world. Next bullshit argument?[/QUOTE] Jesus faze, must you always be so gun loving? And for god sake, do some bloody research. There are other countries that ban guns yet they have a lower crime rate. Hey, guess what? Singapore ban guns yet they have a even lower crime rate. But I can't even compare it to a country like Switzerland because its bloody different. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate[/url]

[QUOTE=Pandamox;39074680]Not sure if you're trying to say their high suicide rate is even comparable to the murder rate in the US and such? [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] Point out where i said we should ban guns[/QUOTE] Not you, but many others do. Also, to those who says Japans murder rate is the lowest in the world. You'd be right, but they also have the [i]highest[/i] suicide rate in the developed world [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=shian;39074736]Jesus faze, must you always be so gun loving? And for god sake, do some bloody research. There are other countries that ban guns yet they have a lower crime rate. Hey, guess what? Singapore ban guns yet they have a even lower crime rate. But I can't even compare it to a country like Switzerland because its bloody different. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate[/url][/QUOTE] There many more reasons besides guns to explain low crime rates. Say social services and education

[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;39074645]Low murder rate, very high suicide rate. Culture plays a big part in this sort of thing.[/QUOTE] What has that got to do with anything [QUOTE=teh pirate;39074651]So are you, by saying that gun ownership[I] alone[/I] leads to an increase in crime. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=teh pirate;39074677]So you acknowledge up-front that guns aren't the issue. How can you still argue in favor of banning them???[/QUOTE] I never suggested that gun ownership alone leads to an increase in crime, and he never mentioned banning guns once. Check your baggage before trying to needlessly politicize a thread, or better yet just don't bring it up to begin with.

It might be easier to kill more people with a gun, but that doesn't mean guns are the issue. You wouldn't ban bolt cutters because they make robberies easier, you'd rather try to prevent people from feeling the need to commit robbery period.

[QUOTE=download;39074718]According to gunpolicy.org there are 3.4million privately owned firearms (most of these would be ex-service weapons, you get to keep your rifle when you leave the service), and 325k military weapons. Doing the math that works out to be about 48 guns per 100 people[/QUOTE] Ah yeah, sounds correct. Pretty close to the Wiki numbers. This site got more info about number of owned weapons throughout the world if anyone are interested_ [url]http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/publications/by-type/yearbook.html[/url]

[QUOTE=download;39074737] There many more reasons besides guns to explain low crime rates. Say social services and education[/QUOTE] What I'm trying to say is don't use how a country ban/doesn't ban guns as a judgement to crime rate.

There are shootings every day, but the media decides to cover them like there's nothing else to talk about. They cover a really small percentage of crime and yet people are afraid to walk the streets because the media can't go a day without talking about them for so long. [editline]2nd January 2013[/editline] Not sure how new this is in Switzerland, though. Strictly speaking about the US.

There is still a big fucking difference between "Requires all citizens to be armed" and 48% gun ownership. The fact that people are still rating his post agree shows how far that dumb misinformation has spread.

[QUOTE=gay_idiot;39074289]More proof that guns need to be controlled.[/QUOTE] More proof that your brain needs to be controlled.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;39074817]There is still a big fucking difference between "Requires all citizens to be armed" and 48% gun ownership. The fact that people are still rating his post agree shows how far that dumb misinformation has spread.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying Switzerland requires all citizens to be armed, but the high gun ownership rates vs low crime rates indicates that guns don't specifically result in a higher crime rate - maybe you aren't saying this exactly, but I've seen it a lot on FP where "BAN GUNS" is touted as the solution to crime. If this isn't you, I'm sorry, I made a mistake in attacking you.

[QUOTE=.FLAP.JACK.DAN.;39074835]More proof that your brain needs to be controlled.[/QUOTE] Hah - you didn't even bother to give a reason for your illogical stance, you just jumped straight to insulting me.

[QUOTE=shian;39074777]What I'm trying to say is don't use how a country ban/doesn't ban guns as a judgement to crime rate.[/QUOTE] I agree. But Raidyr is going around saying how pro-gun people shouldn't make comments in this thread while he goes around being a hypocrite

[QUOTE=faze;39074327]Uh Switzerland requires that all citizens are armed. This country has the lowest crime rate in the world. Next bullshit argument?[/QUOTE] V [QUOTE=Raidyr;39074817]There is still a big fucking difference between "Requires all citizens to be armed" and 48% gun ownership. The fact that people are still rating his post agree shows how far that dumb misinformation has spread.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=gay_idiot;39074877]Hah - you didn't even bother to give a reason for your illogical stance, you just jumped straight to insulting me.[/QUOTE] Maybe because you have a history of spewing bullshit?

[QUOTE=download;39074981]I agree. But Raidyr is going around saying how pro-gun people shouldn't make comments in this thread while he goes around being a hypocrite[/QUOTE] How exactly is anything I've said hypocritical?