BREAKING: Switzerland gunman 'kills three' in Daillon - Polidicks

[QUOTE=download;39074988]Maybe because you have a history of spewing bullshit?[/QUOTE] Why do you define people who have different opinions than you as people who spew bullshit?

[QUOTE=download;39074981]I agree. But Raidyr is going around saying how pro-gun people shouldn't make comments in this thread while he goes around being a hypocrite[/QUOTE] Where was he a hypocrite

[QUOTE=Raidyr;39075021]How exactly is anything I've said hypocritical?[/QUOTE] Pretty sure you said somewhere here we just shouldn't comment one these thread. If not, apologies, my mistake [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=gay_idiot;39075022]Why do you define people who have different opinions than you as people who spew bullshit?[/QUOTE] It has nothing to do with different opinions, just that you keep strawmaning everyone, using bullshit stats, and using one incident to define your opinion as being "right"

Is the number of shootings going up or just the number of reported instances?

That's a damn shame, poor people. All we need is more cause for knee jerk "ban deh azzult waypons" bullshit.

[QUOTE=Pandamox;39074657]And you can't say one is because of the other. There are SEVERAL other countries which have far, far lower gun ownership than both Switzerland and the US (Japan is a good example) where their crime rate is also exponentially lower. Less crime in switzerland isn't because of more guns, it's because of better social welfare, economic stability, and a more distributed money supply unlike the US. [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] I like how you have a whole lot of evidence and sourcing to back this up. You're just spewing stupid shit[/QUOTE] The fuck does one source a wager?

[QUOTE=Super_Nova;39074111]Ugh, not another one :/ When will it end?[/QUOTE] It never started, this happens all the time and it's a hot topic now. Which means more money for media companies if they report on every single shooting

My view is this: If you don't like firearms, fine. If you like firearms, fine. But shame on anyone who tries to tell others how to live. Also my heart goes out to the victims and their families.

[QUOTE=shian;39074736]Jesus faze, must you always be so gun loving? And for god sake, do some bloody research. There are other countries that ban guns yet they have a lower crime rate. Hey, guess what? Singapore ban guns yet they have a even lower crime rate. But I can't even compare it to a country like Switzerland because its bloody different. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate[/url][/QUOTE] The argument against it is precisely my country, Venezuela, which according to the UNODC has the 5th highest murder rate in the world. Guns are banned, as a whole, here. No concealed carry, no gun ownership at all is allowed for civilians. Crime has gone steadily up. To be fair though, this is only for the latest 10 years. Venezuela had allowed gun permits for civilians for a long while.

Man, thank god I have nothing better to do than to stay indoors and go on the internet all day. I mean fuck, I'm single, but I'm alive.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;39074630]There is no conclusive evidence that shows more private firearms ownership leads to less crime so you would be arguing against the scientific method there.[/QUOTE] Exactly. There is no correlation. And if so, why band them?

If I remember rightly, Switzerland maintains neutrality but wants it's citizens armed in case of occupation?

[QUOTE=Ownederd;39074410][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country[/url][/QUOTE] I see a lot of countries with very low and very high crime and homocide rates on both the top and the bottom of that list, and therefore can't make a correlation to either side of the gun debate.

[QUOTE=Ereunity;39077248]If I remember rightly, Switzerland maintains neutrality but wants it's citizens armed in case of occupation?[/QUOTE] The thing about every citizen is merely a left-over tradition, where it's considered the duty of every man to protect his village against intruders. It's not intendet that you actually use the weapon to defend yourself, infact if you do so, you are in big trouble. Today there is a big discussion going on in Switzerland about weather to keep the mandatory service and giving out the rifle. Personally, I don't see any reason to let the soldiers keep their gun after the service, what will they use it for? Ok, technicaly there is the mandatory shooting you have to attend every year, but even there they could just have a stock of rifles to be used. Personally, I wasn't in the army, and it's true that it's piss-easy to get out of the army. So, I am a male, between 18-30 and I don't have a gun. [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] Also, apparently the shooter knew the victims, so there's probably more going on behind the curtains (source: swiss news outlet).

[QUOTE=rosthouse;39077407]The thing about every citizen is merely a left-over tradition, where it's considered the duty of every man to protect his village against intruders. It's not intendet that you actually use the weapon to defend yourself, infact if you do so, you are in big trouble. Today there is a big discussion going on in Switzerland about weather to keep the mandatory service and giving out the rifle. Personally, I don't see any reason to let the soldiers keep their gun after the service, what will they use it for? Ok, technicaly there is the mandatory shooting you have to attend every year, but even there they could just have a stock of rifles to be used. Personally, I wasn't in the army, and it's true that it's piss-easy to get out of the army. So, I am a male, between 18-30 and I don't have a gun. [editline]3rd January 2013[/editline] Also, apparently the shooter knew the victims, so there's probably more going on behind the curtains (source: swiss news outlet).[/QUOTE] Hunting, self defence, keepsake, maybe the fact you gave 12 years of your life and could have potentially give your life and it would be nice to get something for free

[QUOTE=download;39077455]Hunting, self defence, keepsake, maybe the fact you gave 12 years of your life and could have potentially give your life and it would be nice to get something for free[/QUOTE] You want to go hunting with the army rifle? That's just silly. Also, there's a big tradition with hunters in Switzerland, I know quite a few. And not a single one would even consider using the army weapon to go hunting. Also, I already said that if you defend yourself with the army rifle, you get more trouble than your attacker will get. Mind you, I'm not against owning weapons, I just don't see the point in giving out a weapon that you'll never use again or you can't even use (you're not allowed to have ammunition at home).

[QUOTE=counterpo0;39074205]We are all human, it will never end.[/QUOTE] There used to be more wars. There used to be more murders. There used to be more thefts. We're human, and we [I]have[/I] the power to stop ourselves.

Reading threads like this make me feel happy to be in a country where guns are banned / extremely strictly regulated. Guns don't kill people, right, but they sure help a fuckton in the process. They were [b]made[/b] to kill for christ's sake.

[QUOTE=shian;39074736]Jesus faze, must you always be so gun loving? And for god sake, do some bloody research. There are other countries that ban guns yet they have a lower crime rate. Hey, guess what? Singapore ban guns yet they have a even lower crime rate. But I can't even compare it to a country like Switzerland because its bloody different. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah and the gun saturation there is basically none.

OH this is the mass debate thread about private gun ownership in Switzerland? Wait...

[QUOTE=Tomberry;39078492]OH this is the mass debate thread about private gun ownership in Switzerland? Wait...[/QUOTE] How come people in this forum are so afraid of discussion outside Mass Debate? It's a [I]forum.[/I] You're supposed to be able to de-rail to discuss a somewhat relevant topic.

[QUOTE=mac338;39078530]How come people in this forum are so afraid of discussion outside Mass Debate? It's a [I]forum.[/I] You're supposed to be able to de-rail to discuss a somewhat relevant topic.[/QUOTE] I would agree but coming from Switzerland, it's so full of biased arguments and bullshit that reading it just gives me headaches. Also misinformation. My respect to the families, Sion is a nice city, not the kind of thing the people up there ever would like to live through.

if the people shot back there would be problem :S we need more guns to protect the public from itself

[QUOTE=yureega_sven!;39078747]if the people shot back there would be problem :S we need more guns to protect the public from itself[/QUOTE] god bless america! [IMG]http://puu.sh/1IVj1[/IMG]

[QUOTE=kaukassus;39074299]Aparently the shooter was drunk when this happened.[/QUOTE] Oh that explains it then. You can't do much about a angry drunken man because one way or another they are going take that anger on someone.

[QUOTE=smeismastger;39078769]Oh that explains it then. You can't do much about a angry drunken man because one way or another they are going take that anger on someone.[/QUOTE] I've been drunk and angry and I've never spree shot a load of random people.

[QUOTE=lolburst;39078406]What makes you think that a device which propels projectiles at high velocities is made solely for killing people? As far as I know, you can use them for hunting and some recreative activities. If there's anything in this world that was created only for the purpose of killing another person, it's the sword. Not as compact as a knife, can't handle lumberjacking and woodworking at all unlike an axe, there's no obvious "utility" factors on a sword at all unless if you count killing people as one. Have to agree that bullets are pretty lethal when they come in contact with humans, but PLEASE don't say guns were made for killing other people unless we are talking about pistols and assault rifles here.[/QUOTE] All I could put into my mind is hunting and you know, sports and recreation. Or hang it on your wall.

The shooter was in a psyciatric ward and the police took all his weapons in 2005. He used an old army weapon (carbin) and a huntig shotgun. The argument about the gun ownership is kinda ridiculous. In Switzerland almost every man or woman serving in the military has the service weapon at home during the year while not in the repetition course. But you CAN'T take ammunition with you. This means the weapon is mostly somewhere hidden in the basement or in a closet and if you think you could use the numbers of people who have guns to protect themselves you should know that a lot don't have the ammo to use them. The whole idea behind this system is to have 300'000 soliders at the ready within 48 houers if switzerland is atacked. Not every man from 18-30 is in the military. You have to be able to go there (fit enough, no psychological problems, no criminal record with violent crimes). Also if you would think that we would use those guns for selfprotection you are wrong. If you are seen with a gun or a rifle you are in big trouble. It happens often that children take BB guns outside and the police shows up and arrests them. You can't compare Switzerland to the US regarding this matter so please stop because it is getting ridiculous.

[QUOTE=rosthouse;39077513]You want to go hunting with the army rifle? That's just silly. Also, there's a big tradition with hunters in Switzerland, I know quite a few. And not a single one would even consider using the army weapon to go hunting. Also, I already said that if you defend yourself with the army rifle, you get more trouble than your attacker will get. Mind you, I'm not against owning weapons, I just don't see the point in giving out a weapon that you'll never use again or you can't even use (you're not allowed to have ammunition at home).[/QUOTE] If we had it in Australia we would. 5.56x45mm is considered a good round for anything upto small (ish) pigs [editline]4th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ctlilc;39080045]The shooter was in a psyciatric ward and the police took all his weapons in 2005. He used an old army weapon (carbin) and a huntig shotgun. The argument about the gun ownership is kinda ridiculous. In Switzerland almost every man or woman serving in the military has the service weapon at home during the year while not in the repetition course. But you CAN'T take ammunition with you. This means the weapon is mostly somewhere hidden in the basement or in a closet and if you think you could use the numbers of people who have guns to protect themselves you should know that a lot don't have the ammo to use them. The whole idea behind this system is to have 300'000 soliders at the ready within 48 houers if switzerland is atacked. Not every man from 18-30 is in the military. You have to be able to go there (fit enough, no psychological problems, no criminal record with violent crimes). Also if you would think that we would use those guns for selfprotection you are wrong. If you are seen with a gun or a rifle you are in big trouble. It happens often that children take BB guns outside and the police shows up and arrests them. You can't compare Switzerland to the US regarding this matter so please stop because it is getting ridiculous.[/QUOTE] No one is comparing the two. Well, maybe not, some are saying how fucked the US is and how Switzerland seems pretty good

[QUOTE=download;39085952]No one is comparing the two. Well, maybe not, some are saying how fucked the US is and how Switzerland seems pretty good[/QUOTE] Oh please. Most pro-gunners always jump on about Switzerland. Its on the first page.