(U.S.) Generals say women should have to register for draft - Polidicks

[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;49661868]Any politician attempting to reinstate the draft would be committing political suicide. The only possible way it could come back is if the country was facing some sort of existential threat, by which point a draft would be a necessity for survival, rather than just a tool.[/QUOTE] You'd think that it would have been political suicide in the first place to drag unwilling young men off to some shithole that we were invading for no real reason to die by the hundreds of thousands but it wasn't then. Never say never, our country is frighteningly good at propaganda. [QUOTE=soulharvester;49661872]That sounds pretty sexist to me.[/QUOTE] How is looking at things objectively sexist? The fact of the matter is, if you have 1000 men in a room and one woman and they have sustain a population, it's not going to happen. If you have 1000 women and one man, it just might. Obviously there are inbreeding issues there but the US is a lot bigger than 1001 people so the analogy holds. Keep in mind, I support women having to sign up for the draft if men do, but the statement of "you need more women than men to make enough children to sustain a population" is true.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49661837]anywho like fucking hell am i dying for any country, neocons like invadernouga can call me what they wanna but i'm not throwing my life away for anything[/QUOTE] Haha not a neocon but I do consider myself a patriot. At any rate, your selfish attitude is completely understandable. Not everyone has it in them to willingly give their lives for a higher power but I do support your right to think that way. For the record I would not support enacting a draft for non-defensive military action (like Vietnam.)

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49661837]anywho like fucking hell am i dying for any country, neocons like invadernouga can call me what they wanna but i'm not throwing my life away for anything[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.sss.gov/QA"]You are legally obligated to register. [/URL] [QUOTE]Failure to register is a violation of the Military Selective Service Act. Conviction for such a violation may result in imprisonment for up to five years and/or a fine of not more than $250,000.[/QUOTE] [I]If[/I] we do activate the draft, most of us would end up in non-combat roles. Chances are you'd end up getting payed to wear a uniform and drive a truck or forklift. If they play it smart, they'll put volunteers in combat roles as much as possible. You need people who actually want to fight for that shit. And keep this in mind: a total of 16.1 million people served in the US military during world war 2. Just over a quarter of a million were killed in combat. That was in an era with poor, unrealistic tactics and training, no body armor, far less of an emphasis on personnel protection, and medical technology significantly less advance than what we have today.

[QUOTE=phygon;49661884]How is looking at things objectively sexist? The fact of the matter is, if you have 1000 men in a room and one woman and they have sustain a population, it's not going to happen. If you have 1000 women and one man, it just might. Obviously there are inbreeding issues there but the US is a lot bigger than 1001 people so the analogy holds. Keep in mind, I support women having to sign up for the draft if men do, but the statement of "you need more women than men to make enough children to sustain a population" is true.[/QUOTE] Treating men and women differently is sexist regardless of biological function, that's the definition. I don't disagree with you in anyway, it's that exact method of cultural warfare that has defined success throughout time. Feminism has thus far been about fighting sexism, regardless of where it's found or for what reason it exists. To stop short when it becomes inconvenient or actually proves that sexism isn't truly inherently wrong makes me want to hurl people off of a fucking building because that's all that's been ingrained into our society by these "liberals" and "equal rights advocates" for fucking generations. I don't care how critical it is to repopulating society after total war, The crux of their arguments has been that it's wrong to treat people differently regardless of sex so the fact that it's always stopped short of actually giving women the the same responsibilities and duties forced onto every single male living in this country, when those responsibilities were why they were given the right to vote in the first place, makes me despise their hypocrisy more than I can put into words. So yes, utilitarianism is, and can be, sexist, regardless of necessity.

[QUOTE=RedBaronFlyer;49660035]You say that like people just get randomly dragged off and forced to be soldiers during a time of non total war The draft exist as a sort of last resort, when all the people who wanted to join have joined/died and they need more people[/QUOTE] No one should be forced into military service.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49661323]Feminists seem to be taking the easy route out of this.[/QUOTE] What's your problem?

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49661785]Conscription has been used for the entirety of Warfare as we know it. Honestly if things got so bad that you guys were called to service you would find that the Government can be very persuasive to get you to do your job. It's not like we've never dealt with dissenters before. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] It's a shame though that there are some of you who would willingly refuse service even if America was invaded by a foreign power.[/QUOTE] If America was invaded, I wouldn't wait for the army. I'd grab my shotgun and go at 'em. Although maybe I'd be more helpful if I just gathered intel at the first landings or something. If I could.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49661961]Isn't "sexist" reserved for negative things?[/quote] That depends on how you define "Negative". "Sexist" in it's basic form, is defined as treating people differently based on their sex. To delude it with this "Only when it's negative" is bullshit because that's a matter of semantics and perspective. The whole point of the "equality" movements were to stop treating people differently based on "X-genetic-trait" regardless of how well you can logically explain it away. The biggest root of my frustration is that feminists actually killed the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment#Feminists_split]Equal Rights Amendment[/url], first by denying it because they realized they would lose special protections they had secured for women in the work place, and then by trying to delude it by adding special protections bullshit that defeats the whole point of it in the first place, causing it to lose support from the people who supported it in the first place. It's been a selfish self-centered movement since they first killed it, and it's been a selfish self-centered movement ever since.

[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;49661985]If America was invaded, I wouldn't wait for the army. I'd grab my shotgun and go at 'em.[/QUOTE] If you were going to fight as a guerrilla, you'd need to fight smart. Personally, I'd recommend avoiding direct combat. Establish a line of communication with the military and spot targets for them. Feed them every scrap of information you can get. If you have to fight, choose the time and place of your engagement, and ensure you have an overwhelming advantage. Make sure you act with speed, surprise, and violence of action. Above all, don't be ashamed to run. Like Patton said, nobody ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for [I]his[/I] country. Just ask Mao Zedong. His communist guerrillas ran away nearly every time the odds weren't stacked in their favor, and look where it got them.

[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;49661965]What's your problem?[/QUOTE] The draft is not a gender issue because it only negatively affects men. Now that it affects women we're gonna be seeing feminists care about it.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49661785]Conscription has been used for the entirety of Warfare as we know it. Honestly if things got so bad that you guys were called to service you would find that the Government can be very persuasive to get you to do your job. It's not like we've never dealt with dissenters before. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] It's a shame though that there are some of you who would willingly refuse service even if America was invaded by a foreign power.[/QUOTE] I would rather leave the country than join the draft. I can't stand for a country whose basis is upon freedom yet forces people who dont want to die to die for it. Hell, the only reason im still here is purely economic. The country itself is a sham and a shell of what it used to be. Im not even represented by anyone who i support in the government. Through the decades politcal inaction and persecution have led a country once great to be afraid of change. In a draft scenario i would lament the government who was so inept to allow a situation like that to occur. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] Its literally the reason we left the British empire. Impressment of sailors in wartime.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49662107]If you were going to fight as a guerrilla, you'd need to fight smart. Personally, I'd recommend avoiding direct combat. Establish a line of communication with the military and spot targets for them. Feed them every scrap of information you can get. If you have to fight, choose the time and place of your engagement, and ensure you have an overwhelming advantage. Make sure you act with speed, surprise, and violence of action. Above all, don't be ashamed to run. Like Patton said, nobody ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for [I]his[/I] country. Just ask Mao Zedong. His communist guerrillas ran away nearly every time the odds weren't stacked in their favor, and look where it got them.[/QUOTE] Yeah. I get you. That's why I edited to give intel a bit after. I'd be a sniper but I don't have a rifle for it...

[QUOTE=phygon;49661884]You'd think that it would have been political suicide in the first place to drag unwilling young men off to some shithole that we were invading for no real reason to die by the hundreds of thousands but it wasn't then. Never say never, our country is frighteningly good at propaganda. .[/QUOTE] You know where the nazis learned how to do propaganda? That right baby, USA. American damn good at advertising and marketing,

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49661904]Haha not a neocon[/quote] whatever you say, but i've seen enough of your arguments to come to my own conclusions [quote]but I do consider myself a patriot.[/QUOTE] why? i get that you're in the military and probably completely brainwashed, but i want to know what america's done for you in particular and why you're so proud of, essentially, a random number draw resulting in whichever country you were born in would you be as patriotic if circumstances were slightly different and you were born in, say, lithuania? [quote]At any rate, your selfish attitude is completely understandable. Not everyone has it in them to willingly give their lives for a higher power but I do support your right to think that way. [/quote] so now i'm fucking selfish for valuing my own life over fleeting politics and petty governmental issues? cool anyone who actually thinks there's a cause worth dying for clearly hasn't researched life or consciousness to an adequate point to truly understand that this is literally all we have when you draw your final breath, that's fucking it there's nothing after that google human consciousness, just do it when faced with the dilemma of choosing between eternal, indefinite oblivion, and at worst being a traitor, i'll renounce my allegiances lickety fuckin split don't fucking talk to me about selfishness and don't fucking patronize me (btw, "for a higher power" typically refers to god, "for a higher cause" is the term you were looking for)

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49662320]whatever you say, but i've seen enough of your arguments to come to my own conclusions why? i get that you're in the military and probably completely brainwashed, but i want to know what america's done for you in particular and why you're so proud of, essentially, a random number draw resulting in whichever country you were born in would you be as patriotic if circumstances were slightly different and you were born in, say, lithuania? so now i'm fucking selfish for valuing my own life over fleeting politics and petty governmental issues? cool anyone who actually thinks there's a cause worth dying for clearly hasn't researched life or consciousness to an adequate point to truly understand that this is literally all we have when you draw your final breath, that's fucking it there's nothing after that google human consciousness, just do it when faced with the dilemma of choosing between eternal, indefinite oblivion, and at worst being a traitor, i'll renounce my allegiances lickety fuckin split don't fucking talk to me about selfishness and don't fucking patronize me (btw, "for a higher power" typically refers to god, "for a higher cause" is the term you were looking for)[/QUOTE] Look man I understand the concept of patriotism and selfless service is meaningless to which is why you wouldn't serve and that's fine, different strokes for different folks. Also thanks for that last part, I was having a hard time remembering what the term I wanted to use was.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49662320]whatever you say, but i've seen enough of your arguments to come to my own conclusions why? i get that you're in the military and probably completely brainwashed, but i want to know what america's done for you in particular and why you're so proud of, essentially, a random number draw resulting in whichever country you were born in would you be as patriotic if circumstances were slightly different and you were born in, say, lithuania? so now i'm fucking selfish for valuing my own life over fleeting politics and petty governmental issues? cool anyone who actually thinks there's a cause worth dying for clearly hasn't researched life or consciousness to an adequate point to truly understand that this is literally all we have when you draw your final breath, that's fucking it there's nothing after that google human consciousness, just do it when faced with the dilemma of choosing between eternal, indefinite oblivion, and at worst being a traitor, i'll renounce my allegiances lickety fuckin split don't fucking talk to me about selfishness and don't fucking patronize me (btw, "for a higher power" typically refers to god, "for a higher cause" is the term you were looking for)[/QUOTE] This all makes sense but it can't be broadly applied. And I'm sure you don't only and always act consistently as if life was so invaluable that protecting it was all that mattered. If that were the case, and the type of world you live in is irrelevant as long as you still draw breath, then I'll have to assume that you're currently posting alone, from a bunker a hundred feet underground.

I don't like this. I'm imagining if my girlfriend got drafted, or if I had a daughter.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;49662397]I don't like this. I'm imagining if my girlfriend got drafted, or if I had a daughter.[/QUOTE] Would you not have the same concern if you had a son or brother who was drafted? Or is this about the differences in military capability between men and women?

[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49662402]Would you not have the same concern if you had a son or brother who was drafted? Or is this about the differences in military capability between men and women?[/QUOTE] It's the theory/acceptance of male disposability in action.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49662320]why? i get that you're in the military and probably completely brainwashed, but i want to know what america's done for you in particular and why you're so proud of, essentially, a random number draw resulting in whichever country you were born in[/quote] I can't speak for him, but I know for damn sure that if I had to pick anywhere in the world to live, this would be it. We're the most secure, most prosperous nation on the planet, whatever our flaws may be. This is as good as it gets, and we're lucky to have what we have. There are countries where the average person has to work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week in appalling conditions just to put food on their table. There are parts of the world where the average person lives in constant fear of death at the hands of political or religious extremists. There are parts of the world the average person lives under the boot of a corrupt, self-centered regime and has no hope of making their lives better. We do not live in those places. We live in a place where there is little fear of war, famine or plague finding its way to our doorsteps, little fear of men bashing our doors down in the middle of the night and dragging us and our families off to some secret prison. And however much you might think unemployment and economic inequality might be a problem in this country, that problem pales when compared with the crushing poverty found in other parts of the world. The fact of the matter is, as much as our country sucks, it's one of the best around, and I'll fight to the death to keep it that way. [quote]would you be as patriotic if circumstances were slightly different and you were born in, say, lithuania?[/quote] I don't know. I've never lived in Lithuania. However, I understand that a fair number of Lithuanians, in spite of the issues their country faces, would rather fight to keep it independent than have it taken over by Russia. That's no distant, vague threat either. It's a real concern, particularly in light of the Crimean annexation. [quote]so now i'm fucking selfish for valuing my own life over fleeting politics and petty governmental issues? cool anyone who actually thinks there's a cause worth dying for clearly hasn't researched life or consciousness to an adequate point to truly understand that this is literally all we have when you draw your final breath, that's fucking it there's nothing after that google human consciousness, just do it when faced with the dilemma of choosing between eternal, indefinite oblivion, and at worst being a traitor, i'll renounce my allegiances lickety fuckin split don't fucking talk to me about selfishness and don't fucking patronize me (btw, "for a higher power" typically refers to god, "for a higher cause" is the term you were looking for)[/QUOTE] What's more important? Preserving your life, or what you do with it? I'd consider a long, empty life to be worse than a short, but fulfilling one. I'm going to die. It doesn't matter to me if it's 5 years or 50 years from now. I want to leave the world a safer, less unhappy place than the one I arrived in.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49662107]If you were going to fight as a guerrilla, you'd need to fight smart. Personally, I'd recommend avoiding direct combat. Establish a line of communication with the military and spot targets for them. Feed them every scrap of information you can get. If you have to fight, choose the time and place of your engagement, and ensure you have an overwhelming advantage. Make sure you act with speed, surprise, and violence of action. Above all, don't be ashamed to run. Like Patton said, nobody ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for [I]his[/I] country. Just ask Mao Zedong. His communist guerrillas ran away nearly every time the odds weren't stacked in their favor, and look where it got them.[/QUOTE] probably a great way to get shot blue on green the army/nat guard would only work with large well trained militia groups at the most. going rambo is idiotic when you can get proper training, equipment, and protection from joining the military in that situation

[QUOTE=Jund;49662560]probably a great way to get shot blue on green the army/nat guard would only work with large well trained militia groups at the most. going rambo is idiotic when you can get proper training, equipment, and protection from joining the military in that situation[/QUOTE] If you're stuck in occupied territory, you might not have a choice. And as I said, better to restrict direct combat in favor of scouting and intelligence gathering.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49662320]so now i'm fucking selfish for valuing my own life over fleeting politics and petty governmental issues? cool anyone who actually thinks there's a cause worth dying for clearly hasn't researched life or consciousness to an adequate point to truly understand that this is literally all we have when you draw your final breath, that's fucking it there's nothing after that google human consciousness, just do it when faced with the dilemma of choosing between eternal, indefinite oblivion, and at worst being a traitor, i'll renounce my allegiances lickety fuckin split don't fucking talk to me about selfishness and don't fucking patronize me (btw, "for a higher power" typically refers to god, "for a higher cause" is the term you were looking for)[/QUOTE] I guess that's what distinguishes you from many martyrs of the past. They had resolve where you have none. It seems very naive of you to not understand why martyrdom isn't a meaningless venture, even if you don't agree with it. There's plenty of history to show for it. You owe it to yourself to look, particularly since you mentioned Googling and research (e.g. Martin Luther King, Thick Quang Duc, Socrates)

[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;49662137]I would rather leave the country than join the draft. I can't stand for a country whose basis is upon freedom yet forces people who dont want to die to die for it. Hell, the only reason im still here is purely economic. The country itself is a sham and a shell of what it used to be. Im not even represented by anyone who i support in the government. Through the decades politcal inaction and persecution have led a country once great to be afraid of change. In a draft scenario i would lament the government who was so inept to allow a situation like that to occur. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] Its literally the reason we left the British empire. Impressment of sailors in wartime.[/QUOTE] colonial militias were conscripted even before the revolutionary war

I never signed up for the draft lol oops

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49662567]If you're stuck in occupied territory, you might not have a choice. And as I said, better to restrict direct combat in favor of scouting and intelligence gathering.[/QUOTE] meh, chances of that are very slim unless you live on the coast and forces there are completely overwhelmed and i doubt the military will trust much of the shoddy info any of the untrained two-bit lone wolves try to bring them in lieu of their own

[QUOTE=Worstcase;49662572]I guess that's what distinguishes you from many martyrs of the past. They had resolve where you have none. It seems very naive of you to not understand why martyrdom isn't a meaningless venture, even if you don't agree with it. There's plenty of history to show for it. You owe it to yourself to look, particularly since you mentioned Googling and research (e.g. Martin Luther King, Thick Quang Duc, Socrates)[/QUOTE] It's not naive, it's an important question to ask. From some points of view, sacrificing yourself is a ridiculous and wasteful enterprise because you gain nothing at all. It comes down to what you value: the continued experience of your own consciousness at all costs or endangering that experience in the service of improving your circumstance and, if you take the later option, to what degree are you willing to endanger that experience?

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49662567]If you're stuck in occupied territory, you might not have a choice. And as I said, better to restrict direct combat in favor of scouting and intelligence gathering.[/QUOTE] Red dawn didn't work out well in the fictional 1980s, today we have litteral murderbots that can track you for days at a time, if the war on terror has done anything its drawn a pretty damn effective framework for anti-gurilla forces if one fully commits to it

[QUOTE=Worstcase;49662572]I guess that's what distinguishes you from many martyrs of the past. They had resolve where you have none. It seems very naive of you to not understand why martyrdom isn't a meaningless venture, even if you don't agree with it. There's plenty of history to show for it. You owe it to yourself to look, particularly since you mentioned Googling and research (e.g. Martin Luther King, Thick Quang Duc, Socrates)[/QUOTE] no big deal really, actual martyrs are one in a billion. most talk big but chicken out when it counts, and chances are i'm the same. tbh i'm just like him in that i don't believe in the guarantee of an afterlife, so honestly i'm scared shitless of dying. i hate the very thought of it and the fear of death has kept me up many nights. but that's why i feel that it's important to protect my friends and family if the time ever comes. him as well, even if i don't agree with his sentiments or attitude, because as an american he is free to believe what he chooses as long as it doesn't harm others. it's not the military's job to be liked.

[QUOTE=RedBaronFlyer;49660035]You say that like people just get randomly dragged off and forced to be soldiers during a time of non total war The draft exist as a sort of last resort, when all the people who wanted to join have joined/died and they need more people[/QUOTE] I would not die for this country.