(U.S.) Generals say women should have to register for draft - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Jund;49662595]meh, chances of that are very slim unless you live on the coast and forces there are completely overwhelmed and i doubt the military will trust much of the shoddy info any of the untrained two-bit lone wolves try to bring them in lieu of their own[/QUOTE] That depends heavily on the enemy's strategy. Maybe they'll focus on taking over population centers and critical infrastructure, like the Soviets used to. Maybe they'll focus on anchoring themselves in defensible ground, to use it as a springboard for later operations. Maybe their objective will be solely to close with and destroy the conventional military as quickly as possible. It all depends on their overall goals. Whatever the case, they're not going to show up and start shooting just for shits and giggles. As to the later part, I'm fairly certain military intelligence has a system for verifying intelligence sources. Yeah, a couple of rednecks with binoculars and a radio might not be considered reliable, but they're not going to be completely discounted.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49662757]That depends heavily on the enemy's strategy. Maybe they'll focus on taking over population centers and critical infrastructure, like the Soviets used to. Maybe they'll focus on anchoring themselves in defensible ground, to use it as a springboard for later operations. Maybe their objective will be solely to close with and destroy the conventional military as quickly as possible. It all depends on their overall goals. Whatever the case, they're not going to show up and start shooting just for shits and giggles. As to the later part, I'm fairly certain military intelligence has a system for verifying intelligence sources. Yeah, a couple of rednecks with binoculars and a radio might not be considered reliable, but they're not going to be completely discounted.[/QUOTE] Personally the funniest form of invasion I've ever seen was WiC's; because impossibly it seemed the most plausible given how little we can scan the fucking cargo vessels. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wauterboi;49662729]I would not die for this country.[/QUOTE] Okay? I don't understand these posts at all, and the patriotic ones. We get it, you feel special. You wanna feel like going, 'I dun wanna' or 'I wanna' makes you important. The rest of will just duck their heads and hope that a plan comes to end things as quickly as possible.

If there's another war on the scale of WW2 with modern military technology this entire fucking planet is going to be burnt to ash anyway. I mean, yeah, if the world flipped itself upside down and north korea invaded the US and we lacked the forces required to repel them, I'd probably enlist. It's just that that will never happen. If the draft is ever used again, the most likely reason(unlikely as it is even then) would be to fuel yet another pointless proxy war in some god forsaken shithole on the other side of the planet that ends up accomplishing fuck all.

good thing this thread caught my attn because i just checked the selective service database only to find i'm not registered. i turn 26 in five months. would have been so fucked.

[QUOTE=Kommodore;49663016]would have been so fucked.[/QUOTE] Apparently no ones actually been punished for failing to register for decades, apparently registration rates dropped in cities where they persecuted people for it, ironically enough. Though if a draft is instituted, that'd probably change.

[QUOTE=phygon;49660457]If it was abused for wardriving as it was in vietnam it can be abused again.[/QUOTE] If you think that's even remotely possible this day and age you have a very poor understanding of war [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wauterboi;49662729]I would not die for this country.[/QUOTE] Then you can leave the country if for some reason a draft ever happens, mr. Snowflake

[QUOTE=Worstcase;49662572]I guess that's what distinguishes you from many martyrs of the past. They had resolve where you have none. It seems very naive of you to not understand why martyrdom isn't a meaningless venture, even if you don't agree with it. There's plenty of history to show for it. You owe it to yourself to look, particularly since you mentioned Googling and research (e.g. Martin Luther King, Thick Quang Duc, Socrates)[/QUOTE] death can inspire change not my motherfuckin death [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49662620]It's not naive, it's an important question to ask. From some points of view, sacrificing yourself is a ridiculous and wasteful enterprise because you gain nothing at all. It comes down to what you value: the continued experience of your own consciousness at all costs or endangering that experience in the service of improving your circumstance and, if you take the later option, to what degree are you willing to endanger that experience?[/QUOTE] fucking this i judge eternal oblivion and absolute blankness as literally the worst possible thing to ever be subjected to and therefore at this point i value my own life above everything else in existence, no matter what this is nobody's decision to make or place to judge but my own the continued experience of our own consciousness is the ONLY experience it doesn't fucking matter relatively what happens after you're dead because your stream of consciousness is permanently halted i'm not saying you shouldn't strive for change in your life, we all should, i'm just saying that maybe we should all value our ego, our psyche, our soul, our awareness, state of being, whatever a little bit more [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49662372]This all makes sense but it can't be broadly applied. And I'm sure you don't only and always act consistently as if life was so invaluable that protecting it was all that mattered. If that were the case, and the type of world you live in is irrelevant as long as you still draw breath, then I'll have to assume that [B]you're currently posting alone, from a bunker a hundred feet underground.[/B][/QUOTE] this is the plan if i ever make enough dosh :sax:

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49660989]The literal gates of hell would have to open and spew forth Satan's legions before a draft could be implemented.[/QUOTE] I'd watch that anime.

[QUOTE=Abaddabadon;49663442]I'd watch that anime.[/QUOTE] Not an anime, but you may find interest in The Salvation War. Its a series of novels describing that exact scenario. Its written by some prominent ex-DoD fellow and while it -is- a little tom Clancy tier masturbatory with the military stuff, it does a fantastic job at painting a picture of the war from all fronts. Im taking artillery crews in the Balkans, femon legions patrolling afghanistan, hell at one point there's literally an insurrection in hell because all the soldiers who died are sent there, and they fucking break out and go commando on their asses [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] [url]http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=29[/url] Link for those interested

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49662123]The draft is not a gender issue because it only negatively affects men. Now that it affects women we're gonna be seeing feminists care about it.[/QUOTE] You're joking right? If you bothered to look past Tumblr blogs you'll find plenty of feminist organizations that either support the registration of women or disagree with the concept entirely.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;49662397]I don't like this. I'm imagining if my girlfriend got drafted, or if I had a daughter.[/QUOTE] that how i feel when i date a boy, but i guess my feelings arent as important as yours

[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;49664051]You're joking right? If you bothered to look past Tumblr blogs you'll find plenty of feminist organizations that either support the registration of women or disagree with the concept entirely.[/QUOTE] From what I've seen the most popular feminist position seems to be just to get rid of it entirely because most feminists also happen to be liberals/progressives who generally oppose the draft. [QUOTE=Kommodore;49661192]As a male between the ages of 18-25 i feel uncomfortable knowing that there is a system in place to force me to die for a cause i don't yet know and may never believe in[/QUOTE] Well the nice thing about living in a representative democracy is that both of us can hold these opinions and vote for representatives who will hopefully push these opinions into legislature. I wish you luck in finding a someone in Congress or an outsider when election season rolls around that supports your viewpoint :smile:

[QUOTE=cody8295;49660001]Or maybe we could get rid of the draft[/QUOTE] Every western nation has the draft. It exists for a reason. The US is just unique in that the country seem s incapable of knowing who it's citizens are, so they have register.

[QUOTE=Jund;49662560]probably a great way to get shot blue on green the army/nat guard would only work with large well trained militia groups at the most. going rambo is idiotic when you can get proper training, equipment, and protection from joining the military in that situation[/QUOTE] What if I'm 4F anyways? What if the fronts when they're established and our army gets re-organized is well past where I live? I live in a strategic port city for the reference. Closest enough it's what the address is here anyways.

[QUOTE=Worstcase;49662572]I guess that's what distinguishes you from many martyrs of the past. [B]They had resolve where you have none[/B]. It seems very naive of you to not understand why martyrdom isn't a meaningless venture, even if you don't agree with it. There's plenty of history to show for it. You owe it to yourself to look, particularly since you mentioned Googling and research (e.g. Martin Luther King, Thick Quang Duc, Socrates)[/QUOTE] You can still have resolve without wanting to die for a cause. Your examples are interesting as well because Thich Quang Duc may have martyr'd himself but MLK and Socrates died needless deaths that they would have avoided if given the chance. Socrates may have said something to the effect of 'we don't know death so to fear it is unwise', but not knowing what death is like is also a brilliant reason to not welcome it.

Personally I wouldn't want to send Women out into battle period. To me, Women should be revered and respected as elders of society rather than warriors of society. I am all for equality but forcing women into Combat seems like a distasteful act. I guess if you want equality you get equality.

[QUOTE=Timof2009;49668363]To me, Women should be revered and respected as elders of society rather than warriors of society.[/QUOTE] based on what exactly

[QUOTE=Timof2009;49668363]Personally I wouldn't want to send Women out into battle period. To me, Women should be revered and respected as elders of society rather than warriors of society. I am all for equality but forcing women into Combat seems like a distasteful act. I guess if you want equality you get equality.[/QUOTE] Smart women can be elders of society, i guess but what about tough women who want to serve our country and kick ass why can't women do both things (this is unrelated to the draft, since you're talking about war in general)

[QUOTE=wraithcat;49667192]Every western nation has the draft. It exists for a reason. [/QUOTE] Such as? Even if we grant that a draft were to be used only in the event of being invaded, what makes you think that a population that doesn't want to defend their government should be forced to? If they actually would rather be invaded then fight for that government, is it worth fighting for?

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49661315]That sounds like objectification brah.[/QUOTE] There's nothing objectifying about that. It's simply being pragmatic in the most dire, necessary situation. If there were, say, 3 million people in America after a massive war, you'd want there to be slightly more women than men, because that gives the best bet of a high birth rate. We're not talking Dr. Strangelove "1,000 women for each man in a bunker" here, and it's not a sexually-driven solution at all. Sex is only a consequential element of the repopulation process, and it's just a simple fact of human biology that more people would be born in a two-year interval if the population was 60/40 women/men. This would only happen in a case where politics pretty much don't exist and our society was in survival mode. It's not anthropology, it's just math. Again, this probably will never be the case because a war of that caliber is super unlikely, but countering a survivalist argument with a social one is a little silly.

[QUOTE=Timof2009;49668363]Personally I wouldn't want to send Women out into battle period. To me, Women should be revered and respected as elders of society rather than warriors of society. I am all for equality but forcing women into Combat seems like a distasteful act.[/QUOTE] Not sure how you can say that you're for equality when you hold these views. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;49668583]Sex is only a consequential element of the repopulation process[/QUOTE] Keeping male expendability around is sexist and pointless. We're not tribal kingdoms fighting constant wars against eachother. If anything we're dealing with overpopulation.

[QUOTE=Timof2009;49668363]Personally I wouldn't want to send Women out into battle period. To me, Women should be revered and respected as elders of society rather than warriors of society. I am all for equality but forcing women into Combat seems like a distasteful act. I guess if you want equality you get equality.[/QUOTE] good thing we aint a fucking tribe

[QUOTE=Timof2009;49668363]Personally I wouldn't want to send Women out into battle period. To me, Women should be revered and respected as elders of society rather than warriors of society. I am all for equality but forcing women into Combat seems like a distasteful act. I guess if you want equality you get equality.[/QUOTE] This is satire right [editline]4th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;49662926] Okay? I don't understand these posts at all, and the patriotic ones. We get it, [B]you feel special.[/B] You wanna feel like going, 'I dun wanna' or 'I wanna' makes you important. The rest of will just duck their heads and hope that a plan comes to end things as quickly as possible.[/QUOTE] There's nothing special about wanting to protect my natural right to life. If I want to live, that's my right, and no government should be able to take that away from me, let alone one that prides itself on freedom.

[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;49668204]You can still have resolve without wanting to die for a cause. Your examples are interesting as well because Thich Quang Duc may have martyr'd himself but MLK and Socrates died needless deaths that they would have avoided if given the chance. Socrates may have said something to the effect of 'we don't know death so to fear it is unwise', but not knowing what death is like is also a brilliant reason to not welcome it.[/QUOTE] Socrates reasons for martyrdom were completely different than that. He is indeed quoted on saying to fear death is unwise, but that isn't the arguments portrayed for him staying. Namely that to "right" an injustice with an injustice is not justice. And so fleeing the state in face of his execution would be in contradiction to his philosophy. Namely that people do not willingly/knowingly do wrong. Yet to flee the city would be to knowingly and willingly do wrong. Plato's Crito is precisely about this subject. As for MLK, I didn't say his death wasn't needless. I merely mentioned him as an example of a martyr who didn't choose it. At the same time, it doesn't change the fact that his death had significant and immediate ramifications.

[QUOTE=Worstcase;49668796] Namely that to "right" an injustice with an injustice is not justice. And so fleeing the state in face of his execution would be in contradiction to his philosophy.[/QUOTE] Not to argue with socrates but I can't understand this, isn't that just declaring fleeing the state as being an injustice with no basis?

[QUOTE=zakedodead;49668927]Not to argue with socrates but I can't understand this, isn't that just declaring fleeing the state as being an injustice with no basis?[/QUOTE] There is more to it then just merely saying 'fleeing the state is an injustice', yes. Quite a bit in fact. The most important of which (imo) was the claim that fleeing the state would be ultimately ineffectual. Any reasonable state, not just Athens, would never allow an exiled man like Socrates who has shown blatant disregard for laws into their home. And in escaping with the assistance of others, he would be confirming the accusations placed against him by Athens - that he corrupts people with his ideological talk (a.k.a his friend Crito bribing a guard). And lastly that even if he were to escape he could never continue his work. Which he himself claims is absolutely fundamental to giving his life meaning.

[QUOTE=zakedodead;49668564]Such as? Even if we grant that a draft were to be used only in the event of being invaded, what makes you think that a population that doesn't want to defend their government should be forced to? If they actually would rather be invaded then fight for that government, is it worth fighting for?[/QUOTE] Because get over it that's why they will be forced to join. If America of all places were invaded, there would probably be more people either willing to fight or not super crazy about it but still willing than cowards. Also your logic rests on that anyone who is drafted would be totally against joining the service which has historically not been the case.

[QUOTE=Timof2009;49668363]Personally I wouldn't want to send Women out into battle period. To me, Women should be revered and respected as elders of society rather than warriors of society. I am all for equality but forcing women into Combat seems like a distasteful act. I guess if you want equality you get equality.[/QUOTE] nice

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49668610]Keeping male expendability around is sexist and pointless. We're not tribal kingdoms fighting constant wars against eachother. If anything we're dealing with overpopulation.[/QUOTE] This is so important, the argument that women should be kept away from battle just in case we need baby factories has no basis in population realities. We don't need more children, in fact, we have too many mouths to feed as it is. I'm sure that being able to say '1 man to 100 women produces more children than vice versa' makes people feel comfortable that their desires to keep women out of warfare are practical, rather than sociological and ultimately, sexist. Fact of the matter is though, we are much more likely to need to depopulate in a crisis rather than repopulate. If warfare escalates to the point where your draft gets enacted, protecting sources of food is going to be more important than protecting ovaries.

[QUOTE=Swilly;49662926]Okay? I don't understand these posts at all, and the patriotic ones. We get it, you feel special. You wanna feel like going, 'I dun wanna' or 'I wanna' makes you important. The rest of will just duck their heads and hope that a plan comes to end things as quickly as possible.[/QUOTE] The point I'm trying to make is that my standpoint shouldn't be special, yet there are people that are quick to say that you should die for another man's principles. America does not and can not ever represent me or my views, and to force another person to die for them is pretty insane. The goal for these women shouldn't be "Hey, let's all jump into the death machine", it should be "Holy fuck, let's equalize by saying that shit is stupid and no one should have to subject themselves to that." I would be more willing to enforce the draft if the people that are willing to jump start wars had to submit to it themselves, but that won't happen. My life is more valuable than what anyone in the government has to say, and so is yours. So is everyone's. It's not about being "special", it's about self-value and a preservation of your own will. It isn't a free country if they take that away from you. [I]But what if America dies?[/I] I'll move somewhere else. America isn't the only thing standing between me and a shitty life. In fact, in some ways, it reinforces it. I could live a similar lifestyle in Europe, Canada, or Australia. It doesn't have to be America. I don't care about America. The draft is undignified.