Tennessee Governer proposes free college for all future high school graduates - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Speedhax;43826037]4500 for an entire year? Holy fuck that's pretty cheap...[/QUOTE] Yeah that's cheaper than anywhere in Canada aside from Quebec

I'm cynical enough to believe that the colleges/universities/tech schools are okay with this since why do they care where the money comes from? Whether it's the student paying X dollars or the student paying zero and the state paying X dollars, it's all the same to the school. The key will be if the students using this program get profitable educations. The state only scores if this free education results in a more prosperous state population. If students graduate and get higher paying jobs=win for the state and taxpayers. If a bunch of 'fillintheblank' graduates come out and still aren't qualified for much of anything then it's nothing more than corporate welfare to the academics. If someone uses this for a degree in Medieval literature for instance, great you've widened your horizons. What tax bracket does that put you in though, that's what the state wants to know.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43824057]I'm moving to Florida for college in July, and looking at a rate of about $4500 plus books and supplies per semester. Our education system is so flippin' borked. Each small step towards universal education is a step in the right direction. Why we're treating education like a privilege for the wealthy is completely beyond me, since a well-educated society is a more prosperous society as a whole. Expensive, privatized education is holding our future back in a big way.[/QUOTE] Somewhat relevant [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q[/media]

I don't want colleges to be completely paid for of taxes necessarily, but why is it that colleges are so insanely expensive in the first place? $500 or whatever per credit hour? $50 for a fucking lecture are you kidding me?

I personally see this as neither a good thing, nor a bad thing. By making education free for everyone, you're essentially crippling the system, and tying it to standards. You can't have college classes doing whatever they want if they are being funded by the state, so you need to make them accountable for the things that they teach. That lessens the freedom of people who are trying to get a higher education actually obtain a higher standard of education than they would otherwise. Look at it like the dollar. The dollar was based on the idea that one dollar was equal to one unit of gold, then silver, then nothing, and now we have a primarily digital currency that is based off of no true standard. (That's not to say that we should go back to the gold standard or anything. I'm just using it for the sake of argument.) Anywho, the dollar has no real point behind it any more, other than to use in trade. It's not worth anything. That is similar to what happens when you make education free at a higher level like that. You degrade the value of the education. A dollar is still useful, and so would the education, but it's not worth as much as it would be if it were free of restrictions that would inevitably come into effect because of state funding going to the schools. It's education inflation. A century ago, a highschool education was sufficient. As we have progressed and gotten more technical, a college degree has become almost mandatory to make a reasonable wage. There are still jobs out there for people without one, and in some cases you can do better without it, but for the majority, a college education is necessary to feed themselves. That takes time, effort and money. But as we continue to progress, and we see more and more people getting college degrees, we will eventually hit a point where a degree has no more value than the paper it's printed on. By obtaining that degree, you haven't bettered your chances for employment, because everyone has the same slip of paper you do. You haven't gotten more intelligent, or learned anything of any real value, because the education quality has been hamstrung by "standards." In essence, you make a Bachelor's degree the same as a diploma from high school. After that, a Master's degree is the next thing to be necessary, and after that, you'll need a Doctorate just to get a job that is economically feasible. Anyone who doesn't make it there is thrown by the wayside. Maybe it won't happen. Maybe I'm just nuts. I do see that as a possibility though, and the idea does not make me happy. None of that is to say that the price we currently attribute to a higher education reflects in any way the actual quality of education that a person receives. It is vastly over priced, and should be less, but it should still cost the individual something.

[QUOTE=Speedhax;43826037]4500 for an entire year? Holy fuck that's pretty cheap...[/QUOTE] he said per semester, so it would be $9000 + books and supplies for 2 semesters per year.

the previous governor wanted to do this fyi, he could never get the support

[QUOTE=Speedhax;43826037]4500 for an entire year? Holy fuck that's pretty cheap...[/QUOTE] No, $9K a year Which is pretty standard, if not above standard, for a state college (its 4.5k a semester) For reference my local state college is something around $2500 or so for 12 credit hours, which will get you graduated in 4-6 years. That's about $5K a year, or $20K-$30K in debt total. Not bad, but still a lot. Much better than poor souls who are suckered into paying $100K in debt.

Does this apply to those who have a GED instead of graduating? Or am I missing something?

Hey, our oil baron governor finally did something right! Or is doing something right. Now if only he could raise the bar on his school voucher program to the bottom 10%, he'd have education pinned. Really hoping this doesn't affect my HOPE, though, since they're siphoning from the Tennessee Education Lottery pool. I'll barely be able to afford next year's tuition with it, let alone without. For reference, I'm looking at $10k per year, including books, food, and transportation. That's UT Knoxville, and I save a ton by not living on campus. This year, all my fees and expenditures were covered, with an L.E. and Emma E. Jones scholarship ($1000/semester) in addition to the HOPE and TELS. However, the Jones runs out at the end of this semester, and the HOPE is reevaluated next fall. I've still got $3000/semester coming from the Volunteer scholarship, guaranteed four years. However, if I lose the HOPE, which is $2000/semester, I'll be taking out a bit of a loan. Not sure why I went over my finances here... But maybe it'll give you some insight into this. Maybe it won't. I honestly have no idea.

[QUOTE=Valnar;43831061]he said per semester, so it would be $9000 + books and supplies for 2 semesters per year.[/QUOTE] That's still real cheap considering after 4 years of that cost will be less than one semester of some private schools.

[QUOTE=areolop;43824629] Government should [I]never[/I] have a surplus at the end of the year. They should have a 0 balance every year.[/QUOTE] Complete crap, unless you want your governments to have to shut down departments on random just because they didn't bring in enough dollars compared to the year before. The surplus is useful in times of economic downturn so they can keep the same programs running without having to result in taking loans or debt.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;43831747]Complete crap, unless you want your governments to have to shut down departments on random just because they didn't bring in enough dollars compared to the year before. The surplus is useful in times of economic downturn so they can keep the same programs running without having to result in taking loans or debt.[/QUOTE] Governments shouldnt be saving money. They should always have a zero balance at the end of the year. Its how its supposed to work. Having a surplus in a fiscal budget is not the same as having a surplus in government when you're $15Tn in debt.

[QUOTE=Flazer210;43831360]Does this apply to those who have a GED instead of graduating? Or am I missing something?[/QUOTE] I doubt it will, I believe a secondary goal is to stop people from dropping out in the first place because TN has really high dropout rates. Plus there is still a stigma around GEDs in some areas, so some people might not want to treat the two equally with this program.

I'm going to be pretty fucking unhappy if in a few years I'm still paying off tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt when all the new students are getting a free ride from the state...

[QUOTE=BlackPhazor;43826694]That is pretty amazing, it would be awesome if something like that existed in Canada.[/QUOTE] You don't? I thought Canada had that, like the healthcare.

[QUOTE=chipset;43824002]Meanwhile in socialist Sweden, we've had free education for ages. In fact, the government gives people money to study.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's not like we pay 30% taxes to make that system work out.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43824057]I'm moving to Florida for college in July, and looking at a rate of about $4500 plus books and supplies per semester. Our education system is so flippin' borked. Each small step towards universal education is a step in the right direction. Why we're treating education like a privilege for the wealthy is completely beyond me, since a well-educated society is a more prosperous society as a whole. Expensive, privatized education is holding our future back in a big way.[/QUOTE] what college are you attending?

[QUOTE=areolop;43832813]Governments shouldnt be saving money. They should always have a zero balance at the end of the year. Its how its supposed to work. Having a surplus in a fiscal budget is not the same as having a surplus in government when you're $15Tn in debt.[/QUOTE] I don't think it's wise to place absolute rules on finance when you are running something as large as a government. Unexpected situations do arise, whether you want them to or not. Think of it on the individual level. Maybe you'd like to be debt free at the end of the month, and also at the end of the year, and you'd like to be debt free when you retire. I don't give a crap how good your planning is, how well thought out your budget is, how good you are at sticking to that budget...things can happen that put you in debt. It might just be for this month, maybe just for the year, or maybe you carry that debt for life. Governments face it too, just on a larger scale.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43824057]I'm moving to Florida for college in July, and looking at a rate of about $4500 plus books and supplies per semester. Our education system is so flippin' borked. Each small step towards universal education is a step in the right direction. Why we're treating education like a privilege for the wealthy is completely beyond me, since a well-educated society is a more prosperous society as a whole. Expensive, privatized education is holding our future back in a big way.[/QUOTE] I know it's a bit personal, but would you mind sharing which school you'll be attending? I'm interested in knowing how you got such a great rate.

[QUOTE=areolop;43832813]Governments shouldnt be saving money. They should always have a zero balance at the end of the year. Its how its supposed to work. Having a surplus in a fiscal budget is not the same as having a surplus in government when you're $15Tn in debt.[/QUOTE] Oh, that's such a perfect idea! So what happens if there's a drought? Or if there's a second Katrina? Or a second 9/11? Do you plan on pulling money out of your ass to help the areas affected? [editline]8th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=wooletang;43830938]I personally see this as neither a good thing, nor a bad thing. By making education free for everyone, [B]you're essentially crippling the system, and tying it to standards.[/B] You can't have college classes doing whatever they want if they are being funded by the state, so you need to make them accountable for the things that they teach. That lessens the freedom of people who are trying to get a higher education actually obtain a higher standard of education than they would otherwise. None of that is to say that the price we currently attribute to a higher education reflects in any way the actual quality of education that a person receives. [B]It is vastly over priced, and should be less, but it should still cost the individual something.[/B][/QUOTE] Do you not understand how tax-funded education works?

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;43824057]I'm moving to Florida for college in July, and looking at a rate of about $4500 plus books and supplies per semester. [/QUOTE] Is that after grants/scholarships? Because $4,500 is less than I pay for my room alone. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/fKpOci2.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Stopper;43838174]Oh, that's such a perfect idea! So what happens if there's a drought? Or if there's a second Katrina? Or a second 9/11? Do you plan on pulling money out of your ass to help the areas affected?[/QUOTE] Its called budgeting. They're not stupid enough to not have an emergency fund. However, if they start saving money then taxes should be going down.

Education is the most important investment that can be made in an economy. If the state truly has a vested interest in improving the economy, then it should do all that it can to expand educational opportunities to as many people as possible.

[QUOTE=areolop;43838882]Its called budgeting. They're not stupid enough to not have an emergency fund. However, if they start saving money then taxes should be going down.[/QUOTE] It's called a reserve. No government saves up infinitely, only to a certain point so that you can guarantee the government can function in a crisis.

[QUOTE=areolop;43838882]Its called budgeting. They're not stupid enough to not have an emergency fund. However, if they start saving money then taxes should be going down.[/QUOTE] It is not like TN has super high taxes, they only have a 7% sales tax and no personal income tax on salary. IIRC most of its money comes from the dams built and maintained by the TVA.

According to a magazine I read, going to Stanford is like buying a new BMW M5 every year and shoving it off a cliff Edit: Maybe a Tata Nano in Tennessee in the future

I can't believe my state is finally in the news for something good. Seems interesting(although I'm going out of state for college), but like woolio said I hope it doesn't affect the HOPE too much both my siblings are on it and its a huge boon to students going to school in state.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43840052]Actually we have a close to 10% sales tax, highest around. Makes calculating tax on bought items 100% easier[/QUOTE] It is 5% on food 7% on other products at the state level, but some counties add 1-3% [quote]The Tennessee (TN) state sales tax rate is currently 7.0%. Depending on local municipalities, the total tax rate can be as high as 9.75%.[/quote] [url]http://www.tn.gov/revenue/tntaxes/salesanduse.shtml[/url] [url]http://www.taxrates.com/state-rates/tennessee/[/url]

[QUOTE=imptastick;43838587]Is that after grants/scholarships? Because $4,500 is less than I pay for my room alone. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/fKpOci2.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] this looks like typical state school tuition for out-of-state students there's a very good reason not to leave your state for undergrad