South Korea in live-fire 'show of force' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;26901924]All the silly americunts in this thread thinking that they would actually win any war against a competent army are funny in their head. Even New Sealand would push you over easily[/QUOTE] AHAHAHAH OH WOW No, america would demolish the North, albeit it would be difficult when the north turned to guerilla and insurgency tactics, but as a standing conventional army, america would eviscerate the norths army in months.

[img]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/images/m1989dprkcdf001.jpg[/img] You've got to admit those [url=http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/m-1978-170.htm]Koksan guns[/url] look freakin' cool though.

Absolutely useless when you neglect your airforce and are incapable of maintaining air superiority. Those artillery pieces will be molten scrap metal within a week after the war kicks off again.

[QUOTE=bravehat;26973546]AHAHAHAH OH WOW No, america would demolish the North, albeit it would be difficult when the north turned to guerilla and insurgency tactics, but as a standing conventional army, america would eviscerate the norths army in months.[/QUOTE] I don't think America's won a single was against Guerilla fighters. [editline]26th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=bravehat;26973735]Absolutely useless when you neglect your airforce and are incapable of maintaining air superiority. Those artillery pieces will be molten scrap metal within a week after the war kicks off again.[/QUOTE] Never underestimate your enemy.

Nah america is too strict a conventional army, it requires a lot of unconventional troops like delta force and green berets to actually pull off a proper counter guerilla war. And never underestimate your enemy? the north shows off most of it's gear to the world, their warheads are a pile of cow shit, they couldn't develop the missiles and aircraft needed to withstand an air war. They will lose the air war in days, the south will gain air superiority and begin bombing all artillery and armour they find with a passion. The north, will lose hard.

[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;26901924]All the silly americunts in this thread thinking that they would actually win any war against a competent army are funny in their head. Even New Sealand would push you over easily[/QUOTE] This is the same guy who thinks Finland is the center of the worlds economy.

[QUOTE=bravehat;26973798]Nah america is too strict a conventional army, it requires a lot of unconventional troops like delta force and green berets to actually pull off a proper counter guerilla war. And never underestimate your enemy? the north shows off most of it's gear to the world, their warheads are a pile of cow shit, they couldn't develop the missiles and aircraft needed to withstand an air war. They will lose the air war in days, the south will gain air superiority and begin bombing all artillery and armour they find with a passion. The north, will lose hard.[/QUOTE] They might show off their weponry but I doubt that's all they've got.

The North doesn't have the technology to develop advanced air weaponry, they can barely make headway with nuclear missile technology so I severely doubt they have managed to perfect the art of missile technology and miniaturise it.

[QUOTE=bravehat;26973798] And never underestimate your enemy? the north shows off most of it's gear to the world, their warheads are a pile of cow shit, they couldn't develop the missiles and aircraft needed to withstand an air war. They will lose the air war in days, the south will gain air superiority and begin bombing all artillery and armour they find with a passion. The north, will lose hard.[/QUOTE] Korea isn't Desert Storm, dude. In a conflict, the North Koreans' greatest asset is their masses of light infantry. If you take a look at what we estimate as the NK order of battle, armored units form the minority. As the Serbs have shown back in 1999, it's rather easy to come up with simple deceptive measures to turn one's reliance on technology into a crutch. When your adversary is aware of your capabilities, it may not take him long to figure out countermeasures, and more importantly, to figure out how to turn your reliance on technology into a vulnerability. Hell, read this snippet from a former US Army officer that was part of OPFOR: [quote]A few years along, and some NTC training rotations turned into Advanced Warfighting Experiment rotations, where the Army would demonstrate the goodness of all their electronically connected sensors, command and control systems, and other expensive doohickies. Along with these they brought the Apache Longbow: a lethal nighttime killer, able to see out to ranges from which no enemy could touch them, and able to deliver massed Hellfire volleys… well, you all know the hype. Now the OPFOR knew that Longbow companies were coming out on rotation. Don't let anyone lie to you: the OPFOR commanders who execute the missions don't know the whole scenario. They don't cheat. But they're not stupid. And they knew that the Longbows would be used for the deep fight, preferably to engage the OPFOR regiment while it was still on the march. Now Fort Irwin is big, but not big enough that the OPFOR can come marching from all that many kilometers away. They traditionally parked in battalion-sized laager sites, all arrayed in march formation, typically three company columns abreast, a few kilometers from the Blue line of contact. They'd have barbecues the night before an attack, get some rest, then turn over the engines just before SP time and move out into the attack. They'd been doing it for years, and everyone knew they did, and had a darned good idea where to expect to see them once they moved out. (Unit S-2s came out with diagrams of OPFOR laager sites, as if that would do them any good…) So, the first night the Apaches were likely to get into the fight in their deep battle mode, the OPFOR parked all their tracks up in little wadis--not in their nice neat parking lot formations--and shut them down so they'd be cold. (And it *was* cold: I can testify, as I was heading out to the box at about 0330 that morning in the G-2 open HMMWV.) The attack helicopter company transited over us as we drove out, and we could see them with just marker lights setting up in their aerial BPs, at a good stand-off range from the perfectly templated OPFOR laager sites. When the "battle" commenced, the Longbows opened up on the laager sites with their MILES Hellfires, and suddenly the Eagle (aviation observer-controller) net was full of complaints about how they weren't killing anything. Well, of course, the reason they weren't killing anything was that the OPFOR wasn't there. The OPFOR had had their barbecue, for sure, and had left those cut-down burn barrels, along with enough more to give the signature of three parked MRBs, burning down all night long. So they were nice and toasty to give the perfect heat signature of an entire MRR sitting parked in formation when the Apaches opened up. And meanwhile, of course, the OPFOR was quietly, and with cool engines, just slipping out of their wadis unseen and into the attack, which was completely and devastatingly successful.[/quote] Air superiority won't win conventional wars against a [i]smart[/i] enemy. Against the North Koreans, it's going to be the flesh and blood on the ground that's going to make the difference. Although a South Korean military victory is almost guaranteed, it's going to come at a hard price in lives and destruction of South Korea's infrastruture and economy. [quote]Nah america is too strict a conventional army, it requires a lot of unconventional troops like delta force and green berets to actually pull off a proper counter guerilla war.[/quote] Special forces? Hah! The British could do it with regulars back in the Malayan Emergency where they did not use firepower and technology to win the guerilla war. Sir Templer got guerillla war right when Americans still struggle to learn it now.

Spot targets from a distance with infantry, designate the target for a few bombs, and presto, target gone. If you have air superiority you can strike targets with impunity.

[QUOTE=bravehat;26974944]Spot targets from a distance with infantry, designate the target for a few bombs, and presto, target gone. If you have air superiority you can strike targets with impunity.[/QUOTE] Not everyone can have all the fancy electronics that [i]everyone[/i] can have them. Remember what I said about simple deceptive measures? Those things 4000 meters away that look like tanks with daylight view and on the thermal sight may as well be dummies. [editline]26th December 2010[/editline] You also have to take in account of Korea's terrain. Korea isn't a flat desert. In bloody light infantry engagements there's going to be a high probability of friendly fire, and America has a funny aversion to casualties higher than a single man in conventional war.

You say it like we are in short supply of bombs. Why take the risk of saying they could be dummy tanks when at the end of the day there is little danger in dropping some RDX on it anyway?

[QUOTE=bravehat;26975018]You say it like we are in short supply of bombs. Why take the risk of saying they could be dummy tanks when at the end of the day there is little danger in dropping some RDX on it anyway?[/QUOTE] Oh? And you think that the US Air Force in Korea has all the munitions in the world that they can bomb "something I thought was an armored column" without a second thought? The Yom Kippur War and Desert Storm showed that you can run out of munitions - both conventional and precision ones damn quickly in a conflict.

[QUOTE=Tac Error;26975079]Oh? And you think that the US Air Force in Korea has all the munitions in the world that they can bomb "something I thought was an armored column" without a second thought? The Yom Kippur War and Desert Storm showed that you can run out of munitions - both conventional and precision ones damn quickly in a conflict.[/QUOTE] America as a country can easily start rattling out munitions like crazy if they wanted too, besides they could purchase munitions from the EU quite readily I'm sure. Plus they could use cluster munitions on armoured columns.

Remember the snippet of the Longbows launching all of their Hellfires on AFV-shaped burn barrels? Anyone with a little wit could do that. The Apaches have no more Hellfires and the rotating US Army unit gets massacred in its own game by the OPFOR's Soviet-derived doctrine. [editline]26th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=bravehat;26975157]America as a country can easily start rattling out munitions like crazy if they wanted too, besides they could purchase munitions from the EU quite readily I'm sure. Plus they could use cluster munitions on armoured columns.[/QUOTE] Right. I'm sure that you all can produce munitions, do all the quality tests and ship them to the theatre in a matter of days. You think that you will always have a few hundred airlifters to transport them by air? You'll be screwing over your logistics of your people on the ground while you choose to fuck all and make smart bombs for the flyboys who will be already overrun when they get there.

That's why I said confirm and designate targets in conjunction with infantry. The infantry can get close enough to determine whether or not it is an actual target and then direct the fire onto the target.

[QUOTE=bravehat;26975215]That's why I said confirm and designate targets in conjunction with infantry. The infantry can get close enough to determine whether or not it is an actual target and then direct the fire onto the target.[/QUOTE] But then in Korea they're going to fight and intermingle with North Korean light infantry units. That's going to be a potential for friendly fire incidents, and then you're probably playing into the enemy's operational deception. While you're confirming wheter that's a tank or a tank-shaped metal box, the enemy may be actually maneuvering elsewhere to bring the hurt on you.

South Korea has the right to be able to do what it wants in it's own country. North Korea are just trying to be intimidating and shit, but they failed because Kim Jong eeeeeeeeel has a tiny, tiny penis.

[QUOTE=Tac Error;26975271]But then in Korea they're going to fight and intermingle with North Korean light infantry units. That's going to be a potential for friendly fire incidents, and then you're probably playing into the enemy's operational deception. While you're confirming wheter that's a tank or a tank-shaped metal box, the enemy may be actually maneuvering elsewhere to bring the hurt on you.[/QUOTE] That's why you use predator drones and other UAV's as much as possible, our reliance on technology isn't a hindrance when the technology operates just like soldiers, delivering information from up close to analysts.

[QUOTE=bravehat;26975419]That's why you use predator drones and other UAV's as much as possible, our reliance on technology isn't a hindrance when the technology operates just like soldiers, delivering information from up close to analysts.[/QUOTE] If the human eyes using the sensor can be easily fooled regardless of the platform's capabilities, then it's a hinderance. Hell, they don't need something as expensive as the Predator anyways.

On the subject of cost that's why I mentioned other UAVs like the ones that infantry can carry with them, and there's the ones like little toy cars with a camera on them and the tiny little helicopter style UAVS that are supposed to be in use in a year or two.

[QUOTE=bravehat;26975531]On the subject of cost that's why I mentioned other UAVs like the ones that infantry can carry with them, and there's the ones like little toy cars with a camera on them and the tiny little helicopter style UAVS that are supposed to be in use in a year or two.[/QUOTE] But the American military-industrial complex is not known for producing cheap and effective systems. If someone managed to make a man-melting laser that was powered by home batteries and only cost $100 per unit, it would [i]never[/i] go into production! It simply wants to produce systems generating the greatest possible cost, preferably through multiple iterations of such systems. Regardless of that, I still stand by that the human operator behind all of that technology can be fooled easily enough with simple measures. Due to its reliance on technology, the US armed forces is not "better" than any other competent state military force. Any smart adversary can and will be able to exploit on that, as demonstrated by one of the Fort Irwin OPFOR scenarios I posted earlier.

Oh please both Koreas shut the fuck up allready! It's always the fucking same that goes: North:*Punches the south* South:OH I LET YOU GET AWAY WITH THIS ONE BUT LOOK AT MY FIREPOWER DRDRDRD YEAH BOOM HELL YEAH MOTHERFUCKER YOU DONT HAVE SHIT ON THIS ONE PEWPEW-PCHH North:*Punches the south again* South:OH YOU SILLY NORTH YOU REALLY SHOULD NOT DO THAT HERE LOOK AT MY FIREPOWER AGAIN BOOM PEWPEW DRRRDRRR North:*nothing* South:HEY DID YOU SEE MY FIRE POWER AND STUFF DRRR PEW PEW BOOM YEAH HNNGGG BRBRBRB

[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;26901924]All the silly americunts in this thread thinking that they would actually win any war against a competent army are funny in their head. Even New Sealand would push you over easily[/QUOTE] anime avatar: check weeaboo name: check sits alone at lunch: check quit trying to incite an argument, you're just being an ass back on track here this won't escalate into anything, North Korea's like the kid at the mall who wants to fight you but when you stand up all the way he runs away to his nonexistent friends