Virginia to Execute Woman for 1st Time in 98 Years
142 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Detective P;24790003]Yes it does. Killing for retribution and justice is a huge leap from killing for personal gain or entertainment. That's like saying the guy who kills in defense is no different than the guy trying to kill him.
And the government does have that right, because government represents society, and once someone actively seeks out to harm a member of society, then we have the right to punish them for their crime.
We can take away the inalienable rights of those who choose to take away others' and we have the right to remove the rights of those who actively seek to harm society- we do so every time we imprison someone. By saying we have no right to take away inalienable rights then you're saying we have no right to imprison.[/QUOTE]
Punishment doesn't work. Rehabilitation does. Eye for an eye isn't logical, it just ends up hurting everyone.
You have to kill the killers yes? So you have to kill the person who killed the person who killed a person initially. Retardation. Government sponsored killing. It doesn't make sense.
[editline]03:58PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Detective P;24790068]Prisons don't rehabilitate murderers, though I do agree with this, i suppose.[/QUOTE]
They should. And some do. Outside of your shell, they do.
[editline]03:58PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sleepy Head;24790018]actually i'm not bitching, i'm just pointing out how you're bitching. there's quite a difference. also, don't tell me what to do.[/QUOTE]
You're bitching about people bitching. You're a hypocrite.
[QUOTE=James*;24790141]Which I don't.[/QUOTE]
then there is no hope for you
[editline]12:59PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24790174]
You're bitching about people bitching. You're a hypocrite.[/QUOTE]
i'm telling people to take real life action, sorry if that counts as bitching.
[QUOTE=Sleepy Head;24790203]then there is no hope for you
[editline]12:59PM[/editline]
i'm telling people to take real life action, sorry if that counts as bitching.[/QUOTE]
You're also assuming everyone lives in a country with it.
I'm not able to change the system in the US, so I discuss it. I didn't know that was wrong.
At first I thought they were killing her because she was retarded lol.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24790250]You're also assuming everyone lives in a country with it.
I'm not able to change the system in the US, so I discuss it. I didn't know that was wrong.[/QUOTE]
actually, i'm not assuming this. i just told how U.S. residents can speak out against the death penalty, sorry i can't help you.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24790174]Punishment doesn't work. Rehabilitation does. Eye for an eye isn't logical, it just ends up hurting everyone.
You have to kill the killers yes? So you have to kill the person who killed the person who killed a person initially. Retardation. Government sponsored killing. It doesn't make sense.
They should. And some do. Outside of your shell, they do.
[/QUOTE]
Punishment has worked for thousands of years. That's why we have prisons in the first place. Rehabilitation has a fairly low success rate for most everything I know of- alcoholics, psychopaths, addicts, violent offenders, etc. It is a good thing, yes, I'm not arguing that, i'm just saying that punishment provides a good deterrent and rehabilitation isn't the most effective ever. And with murderers, there isn't exactly anything to rehabilitate- they did what they did for a reason.
And you don't kill the killers, you kill the murderers. I know murder means anyone who kills another human, but it's obvious I mean people who purposefully kill for personal gain or entertainment and not those who do so under reasonable government orders (notice the word reasonable) and circumstances or for defense.
Outside my shell? What does that mean? Also, as far as I know, no prison rehabilitates murderers over their acts or murder. I know prisons that rehabilitate addicts, the mentally ill, most sex offenders, and violent offenders but not murderers.
Ok I will consider you a troll, because there is no way someone can be serious about that.
[QUOTE=Detective P;24790425]Punishment has worked for thousands of years. That's why we have prisons in the first place. Rehabilitation has a fairly low success rate for most everything I know of- alcoholics, psychopaths, addicts, violent offenders, etc. It is a good thing, yes, I'm not arguing that, i'm just saying that punishment provides a good deterrent and rehabilitation isn't the most effective ever. And with murderers, there isn't exactly anything to rehabilitate- they did what they did for a reason.
And you don't kill the killers, you kill the murderers. I know murder means anyone who kills another human, but it's obvious I mean people who purposefully kill for personal gain or entertainment and not those who do so under reasonable government orders (notice the word reasonable) and circumstances or for defense.
Outside my shell? What does that mean? Also, as far as I know, no prison rehabilitates murderers over their acts or murder. I know prisons that rehabilitate addicts, the mentally ill, most sex offenders, and violent offenders but not murderers.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit. You're seriously in need of help if you think prisons and punishment WORKS. Do you see crime dropping DUE to punishment? No. You see it raising. You see crime actually getting more powerful through the current prison system. Are you so naive you don't know that convicts call prison "con College"? They're HAPPY to go there. The gang members use it as a training ground. It's a positive in their system.
Rehabilitation is proving effective in the Netherlands and WOULD prove effective if it was really used elsewhere.
What purpose does killing the murderers serve? Justice? Retribution? Retribution isn't worth it. It doesn't fix anything, it just adds more blood to the issue. It just makes you look like bloodthirsty ass advocating MORE death. MORE DEATH TO FIX SOMEONES DEATH? GENIUS.
Yes, there IS area to rehabilitate murderers. Not all of them are happy they did it, and often regret it and want to fix their actions and change everything, not everyone of them is heartless. The serial killers are the ONE area you're right on.
Outside your shell, as in, not JUST american prisons. Punishment is proving itself to fail daily, rehabilitation needs a mainstream chance. But then again, you just want to kill everyone that offends the law.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24790565]Holy shit. You're seriously in need of help if you think prisons and punishment WORKS. Do you see crime dropping DUE to punishment? No. You see it raising. You see crime actually getting more powerful through the current prison system. Are you so naive you don't know that convicts call prison "con College"? They're HAPPY to go there. The gang members use it as a training ground. It's a positive in their system.
Rehabilitation is proving effective in the Netherlands and WOULD prove effective if it was really used elsewhere.
What purpose does killing the murderers serve? Justice? Retribution? Retribution isn't worth it. It doesn't fix anything, it just adds more blood to the issue. It just makes you look like bloodthirsty ass advocating MORE death. MORE DEATH TO FIX SOMEONES DEATH? GENIUS.
Yes, there IS area to rehabilitate murderers. Not all of them are happy they did it, and often regret it and want to fix their actions and change everything, not everyone of them is heartless. The serial killers are the ONE area you're right on.
Outside your shell, as in, not JUST american prisons. Punishment is proving itself to fail daily, rehabilitation needs a mainstream chance. But then again, you just want to kill everyone that offends the law.[/QUOTE]
Alright, alright you win, you've made some really good and valid points and I concede my arguments and my position. Kudos.
Capital punishment is bad.
Executing the mentally retarded is worst.
Add two and two and you get a judge with a soul that's as black as satan's heart.
[QUOTE=Detective P;24790625]Alright, alright you win, you've made some really good and valid points and I concede my arguments and my position. Kudos.[/QUOTE]
...Am I still on facepunch or has my browser been duped?
[img]http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/72/ss20100912192123.png[/img]
well now.
[QUOTE=Detective P;24789039]Listen, an eye for an eye is more fair and closer to true justice than living for the rest of your life on the dime of the taxpayer without contributing anything to society.[/QUOTE]
You can't make that argument because executing someone costs more than keeping them in jail for life, and it's a stupid fucking argument.
Seems I'm late to the party
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24790763]You can't make that argument because executing someone costs more than keeping them in jail for life, and it's a stupid fucking argument.
[b]Seems I'm late to the party[/b][/QUOTE]
same
Somehow someone actually conceded a point on facepunch. I think I'm going to mark this down on a calendar or something.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24790763]You can't make that argument because executing someone costs more than keeping them in jail for life, and it's a stupid fucking argument.
Seems I'm late to the party[/QUOTE]
Well, I'm not arguing for it or anything right now, but the reason because it's more expensive is because of the extra bureaucratic process to actually get someone to their execution, not because of the execution itself.
[QUOTE=Detective P;24790840]Well, I'm not arguing for it or anything right now, but the reason because it's more expensive is because of the extra bureaucratic process to actually get someone to their execution, not because of the execution itself.[/QUOTE]
a lot of people get exonerated from death row due to being innocence and new evidence. some get proven innocent after being killed. i don't like this system.
[editline]07:33PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24790813]Somehow someone actually conceded a point on facepunch. I think I'm going to mark this down on a calendar or something.[/QUOTE]
yeah, he has my respect
[QUOTE=Detective P;24790840]Well, I'm not arguing for it or anything right now, but the reason because it's more expensive is because of the extra bureaucratic process to actually get someone to their execution, not because of the execution itself.[/QUOTE]
Because proving someones guilt or innocence to the degree that is appropriate to actually kill them at. Do you have any idea the number of innocents that die from the death penalty without that proper investigation and etc. It's required. If you got rid of that, the whole "Life saving" element you're costing the system tons of innocent lives.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24790869]a lot of people get exonerated from death row due to being innocence and new evidence. some get proven innocent after being killed. i don't like this system.
[/QUOTE]
Wasn't there this one woman who was proven innocent but was executed anyways?
Like executed after she was proven innocent.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24790885]Because proving someones guilt or innocence to the degree that is appropriate to actually kill them at. Do you have any idea the number of innocents that die from the death penalty without that proper investigation and etc. It's required. If you got rid of that, the whole "Life saving" element you're costing the system tons of innocent lives.[/QUOTE]
I know, I'm just saying that the whole process leading up to the execution is what costs it, not the execution itself. I'm just saying that's what it is. Definitely, the investigations and extra processes are good, I just don't like the cost argument on either side because the cost for life in prison vs death penalty doesn't have to do with the actual penalty, it has to do with how we handle the penalty.
[QUOTE=Detective P;24790963]I know, I'm just saying that the whole process leading up to the execution is what costs it, not the execution itself. I'm just saying that's what it is. Definitely, the investigations and extra processes are good, I just don't like the cost argument on either side because the cost for life in prison vs death penalty doesn't have to do with the actual penalty, it has to do with how we handle the penalty.[/QUOTE]
I understand that, but the penalty HAS to be handled that way, = it's part of the cost. The price of life in prison is something we can change.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24790684][img]http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/72/ss20100912192123.png[/img]
well now.[/QUOTE]
give a source, otherwise its bullshit.
[QUOTE=hoodoo456;24792977]give a source, otherwise its bullshit.[/QUOTE]
The whole idea behind the death penalty is more bullshit than those numbers could ever be.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;24785648]It's like arresting a gun to be honest, they just did the killing, she was the one who asked for it. Although to be honest they should all get the same sentence in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
What are you stupid or something
A gun can't say "fuck you lady, I'm not going to kill someone for you"
People have done much worse and received much less.
Plus, she didn't kill puppies, so she shouldn't die.
[QUOTE=Sir Colton;24793190]People have done much worse and received much less.
Plus, she didn't kill puppies, so she shouldn't die.[/QUOTE]
That last comment was intended to stir shit up eh?
People < Puppies?
[QUOTE=Detective P;24790003]Yes it does. Killing for retribution and justice is a huge leap from killing for personal gain or entertainment. That's like saying the guy who kills in defense is no different than the guy trying to kill him.
[/QUOTE]
A guy killing in defense is protecting his own well being at the current moment, not trying to rectify somebody else's death with more death.
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;24793910]HumanAbyss is here, now all we need is Warhol![/QUOTE]
I've kind of been here since the beginning.
There's a lot of good posters here who realize how stupid the death penalty is. And a surprisingly large amount who've never thought of any counters to the points their argument brings up.
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