Chinese firm behind 'racist' detergent ad says foreign critics are 'too sensitive'
225 replies, posted
Taking a detergent commercial seriously is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50411061]"Arguing on the internet is pointless," he says as he provides a demonstration of why arguing on the internet is pointless by asserting his opinion and avoiding responding to dissenting replies.
Whoa - could it be - are you the problem? Yes, yes you are![/QUOTE]
Thanks, but your "GOTCHA" moment failed.
I've got nothing else better to do. I've got time to kill. Why the hell else would I come in here and tell all you that you shouldn't be arguing like this if you've got something better to do.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50411043]Merriam Webster defines racism as follows
Did the creators of this laundry detergent commercial believe that Chinese people are superior to black people? In the case of the Italian one, that black people are superior to white people? Was either commercial intended to convey the message that one race was better than the other?
No? Then it's not racist. That's objective fact. Unless you intend to tell me that you know better than Merriam-Webster.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/27/Appeal_to_Definition[/url]
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50411060]Dude, the Italian commercial is racist because it implies that colored people are better then white ones and the chinese one is racist because it implies that Asian people are better than black people. They're both racist. Get over it.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe they're just supposed to be funny
Maybe neither one is supposed to be a serious statement on the superiority of any specific race
Like, that's the problem with problematizing jokes. You end up interpreting the world like Draxx. People aren't serious all the time with everything they say, and sometimes things are okay even if they'd be horrible if taken literally.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;50411026]Hey guys I'm black
Did you know I'm black?
I am black[/QUOTE]
i think he said he was black once.....
idk a discussion about black people getting offended whereas a person says that he's black and gives his opinion on the matter is welcome so idk what you're trying to do here
[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;50411070][url]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/27/Appeal_to_Definition[/url][/QUOTE]
[quote]Exception: The dictionary works well when the term in question is a result of a misunderstanding or ignorance.[/quote]
From the very page you quoted. Your move.
You might as well be saying the commercials are pineapples and pointing to that page when I post the definition of pineapples to confirm that they are, in fact, not pineapples.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50411061]"Arguing on the internet is pointless," he says as he provides a demonstration of why arguing on the internet is pointless by asserting his opinion and avoiding taking into account dissenting replies
Whoa - could it be - are you the problem? Yes, yes you are!
Read the post you quoted and try to process it with that thing between your ears instead of ignoring the words you don't like. Go on, try it. Critical thinking [I]can[/I] be fun. Or at least enlightening.[/QUOTE]
These are some real sick burns, but all they really do is shit up the thread. "Use your brain" is not a useful statement.
Hey, lets just close this thread.
Today we learned there are four things never to be discussed on Facepunch...
Religion, Politics, The Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown and of course Chinese Detergent Ads and how that relates to Racism.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50411061]
Read the post you quoted and try to process it with that thing between your ears instead of ignoring the words you don't like. Go on, try it. Critical thinking [I]can[/I] be fun. Or at least enlightening.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it'd be better if you actually read my own post before you said that. You clearly stated that racism the holding or [B]promoting[/B] of the belief that one race is better (superior) than the other. Read my post again now, and apply your own critical thinking skills before you respond.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50411088]These are some real sick burns, but all they really do is shit up the thread. "Use your brain" is not a useful statement.[/QUOTE]
I'm telling him to think critically about what he's replying to. To be racist something has to assert that one race is better than the other (which the commercials aren't necessarily doing) and actually mean it (which the commercials definitely aren't doing). His reply is "omg its racist".
"Use your brain" is an entirely fine response to that.
"To be a pineapple something has to be a large fruit that grows on a tropical tree and that has thick skin and very sweet, juicy, yellow flesh. These are not pineapples." "omg its pineapples"
with a side of someone screaming DICTIONARY FALLACY!!!
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50411074]i think he said he was black once.....
idk a discussion about black people getting offended whereas a person says that he's black and gives his opinion on the matter is welcome so idk what you're trying to do here[/QUOTE]
We've established that it doesn't matter if an individual black person says they aren't offended, right?
So why would it matter if an individual black person says they are?
Like, what you are doesn't affect how much merit your argument has, so who cares
Not that that means you can't bring it up, it just isn't all that useful
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50411072]Or maybe they're just supposed to be funny
Maybe neither one is supposed to be a serious statement on the superiority of any specific race
Like, that's the problem with problematizing jokes. You end up interpreting the world like Draxx. People aren't serious all the time with everything they say, and sometimes things are okay even if they'd be horrible if taken literally.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I never said that it wasn't funny. In fact, I thought it was, it's just that you cannot deny that it was not racist. Racist humor, is still humor and still racist.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50411043]Merriam Webster defines racism as follows
Did the creators of this laundry detergent commercial believe that Chinese people are superior to black people? In the case of the Italian one, that black people are superior to white people? Was either commercial intended to convey the message that one race was better than the other?
No? Then it's not racist. That's objective fact. Unless you intend to tell me that you know better than Merriam-Webster.[/QUOTE]
I am incredibly offended every time someone posts the dictionary definition of racism to defend racism. Luckily it's not one of those cases where I have to explain the different types of racism because there are holes in your argument.
The entire joke was that a black person came out as a clean asian man because of the laundry detergent. That's a racist joke because it implies that Asian men are better than black men. Implying that a race is superior to another race is racism.
Intent doesn't matter when discussing whether or not the joke is racist.
I'm not racist yet I can spew racist jokes, the jokes are still racist even though I'm not a racist.
personally i think the lady in the chinese ad made a mistake washing that dude, traded in a ruggedly handsome man for a nerd
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50411108]We've established that it doesn't matter if an individual black person says they aren't offended, right?
So why would it matter if an individual black person says they are?
Like, what you are doesn't affect how much merit your argument has, so who cares
Not that that means you can't bring it up, it just isn't all that useful[/QUOTE]
"This is offensive to black people" can be countered with a black person saying that he or she does not find it offensive. It means that the color of your skin does not define what you are offended by.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50411098]I'm telling him to think critically about what he's replying to. To be racist something has to assert that one race is better than the other (which the commercials aren't necessarily doing) and actually mean it (which the commercials definitely aren't doing). His reply is "omg its racist".
"Use your brain" is an entirely fine response to that.
"To be a pineapple something has to be a large fruit that grows on a tropical tree and that has thick skin and very sweet, juicy, yellow flesh. These are not pineapples." "omg its pineapples"
with a side of someone screaming DICTIONARY FALLACY!!![/QUOTE]
Just point out the contradiction in their reasoning
It isn't like if I tell you to think more that'that'll activate your brains hidden turbo mode and make you smarter. It just isn't a useful statement.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50411078]From the very page you quoted. Your move.
You might as well be saying the commercials are pineapples and pointing to that page when I post the definition of pineapples to confirm that they are, in fact, not pineapples.[/QUOTE]
[quote]Dictionary meanings are usually concise, and lack the depth found in an encyclopedia; therefore, terms found in dictionaries are often incomplete when it comes to helping people to gain a full understanding of the term.[/quote]
Whether something has racial connotations or not is a complex sociological topic and you can't just use Merriam-Webster as your litmus test over what it is and isn't racially insensitive.
[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;50411120]Whether something has racial connotations or not is a complex sociological topic and you can't just use Merriam-Webster as your litmus test over what it is and isn't racially insensitive.[/QUOTE]
It can have racial connotations (using race as a device for humor) and be "racially insensitive" (not caring if someone finds it offensive?? i guess??) without being racist (holding or promoting the belief that one race is better than another).
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50411047]Yeah, maybe, but American history still isn't relevant to this situation
It seems like you've just assumed a bunch of stuff about how this was made and why it was made and the people who made it
[B]And when people suggest you're wrong you respond with "I won't take that from a white serbian"
Like, come on, surely you can see the problem with that[/B][/QUOTE]
I'll give you that one. My wording was a bit implicit. Its just that I find it hard to see an average Serbian person knowing or caring about racist media that makes a black dude the ass end of a joke. Something I'm finding easier and easier to belive as this thread goes on.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50411108]We've established that it doesn't matter if an individual black person says they aren't offended, right?
So why would it matter if an individual black person says they are?
Like, what you are doesn't affect how much merit your argument has, so who cares
Not that that means you can't bring it up, it just isn't all that useful[/QUOTE]
That wasn't my point. My point was that it matters, but he doesn't speak for all black people, meaning that he is not the lone judge that determines that if this is racist or if this isn't racist.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50411113]I am incredibly offended every time someone posts the dictionary definition of racism to defend racism. Luckily it's not one of those cases where I have to explain the different types of racism because there are holes in your argument.
The entire joke was that a black person came out as a clean asian man because of the laundry detergent. That's a racist joke because it implies that Asian men are better than black men. Implying that a race is superior to another race is racism.
Intent doesn't matter when discussing whether or not the joke is racist.
I'm not racist yet I can spew racist jokes, the jokes are still racist even though I'm not a racist.[/QUOTE]
Racism as in people discriminating against others based on their appearance is bad because all human beings deserve to be judged as individuals
Racism as in racist jokes per your definition are bad why, exactly?
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;50411026]Hey guys I'm black
Did you know I'm black?
I am black[/QUOTE]
You're sharper than a butter knife used to cut rocks, aren't we?
Alright, well, I'll take my leave now that I have something better to do. I hope in the end you do realize that the commercials are racist Grenadiac (that's not to say they aren't humorous though). Godspeed you all, and goodbye.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50411126]It can have racial connotations and be racially insensitive without being racist (holding or promoting the belief that one race is better than another).[/QUOTE]
Arguing semantics and rigidly adhering to a dictionary definition just makes you look like a contrarian buffoon. You know very well what people mean when they say "this ad seems a little racist." Of course they don't literally think the Chinese advertisers think blacks are an inferior race. "Use your brain" and understand what context is.
[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;50411150]Arguing semantics and rigidly adhering to a dictionary definition just makes you look like a contrarian buffoon. You know very well what people mean when they say "this ad seems a little racist." Of course they don't literally think the Chinese advertisers think blacks are an inferior race. "Use your brain" and understand what context is.[/QUOTE]
I am making this distinction because I believe racism is bad and muddying the waters of what racism actually is in order to do away with things that make you uncomfortable even though they aren't actually threatening the societal standing of any particular race is also pretty fucking bad.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50411131]That wasn't my point. My point was that it matters, but he doesn't speak for all black people, meaning that he is not the lone judge that determines that if this is racist or if this isn't racist.[/QUOTE]
Maybe no one is
Maybe by your definition racism is a subjective quality
[editline]29th May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=axelord157;50411130]I'll give you that one. My wording was a bit implicit. Its just that I find it hard to see an average Serbian person knowing or caring about racist media that makes a black dude the ass end of a joke. Something I'm finding easier and easier to belive as this thread goes on.[/QUOTE]
I think the problem here is that he isn't a serbian, he's a person
He as a person might not care, but his beliefs and actions no more speak to the beliefs and actions of the hypothetical "average serbian" than your beliefs and actions speak to the beliefs and actions of the hypothetical "average black"
I doubt the Chinese actually care what some Westerners think.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50411141]Racism as in people discriminating against others based on their appearance is bad because all human beings deserve to be judged as individuals
Racism as in racist jokes per your definition are bad why, exactly?[/QUOTE]
Two reasons.
1. I don't like humor directed at something a person cannot reasonably change, such as skin color, handicap, sexual orientation, gender, ect.
2. As of now, racism is a pretty serious issue. You can joke about serious issues but it usually doesn't go down well for people who have experienced racism. It's similar to making 9/11 jokes to those who were at ground zero; it's in poor taste.
That being said, racist jokes can be funny if they're clever, witter, and/or unexpected. It's the reason why I initially started moan-laughing to when I first saw the joke.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50411060]Dude, the Italian commercial is racist because it implies that colored people are better then white ones and the chinese one is racist because it implies that Asian people are better than black people. They're both racist. Get over it.[/QUOTE]
What the Chinese advert implies is that their detergent is so good that it will make anything white, so when she puts a black dude in it he transforms into a white dude and it's quite comical.
Nowhere did it imply white people are better than black people.
Nowhere did it imply that black people are 'unclean'.
The whole advert is a joke. Surprise surprise. The fact that you're somehow pulling "Asian people are better than black people" from this is highly amusing and quite telling.
In a truly racism-free society you can make a joke about skin color as that's all it is, skin color, and if you think it's anything more, well... At this stage I think most of us know that a person isn't defined by their skin color, yet the fact that this advert gets massive backlash and the Italian one doesn't immediately tells you that there's something fucking wrong and holy shit how can you not see it.
I'm sure you've seen multiple comedians making jokes of the whole racism issue, and this should be interpreted in the same way.
Thinking that race makes a difference: racist.
Making a joke of skin color: [sp]not racist[/sp]
[QUOTE=axelord157;50411145]You're sharper than a butter knife used to cut rocks, aren't we?[/QUOTE]
Ill provide a cohesive argument when you get off your high horse man.
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