• Chinese firm behind 'racist' detergent ad says foreign critics are 'too sensitive'
    225 replies, posted
I feel like the commercials are in really bad taste but I dont know if I would go outright to say that they're intentionally malicious in any way. Still doesn't mean they ever should have been aired in any capacity, though.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50411226]Two reasons. 1. I don't like humor directed at something a person cannot reasonably change, such as skin color, handicap, sexual orientation, gender, ect. 2. As of now, racism is a pretty serious issue. You can joke about serious issues but it usually doesn't go down well for people who have experienced racism. It's similar to making 9/11 jokes to those who were at ground zero; it's in poor taste. That being said, racist jokes can be funny if they're clever, witter, and/or unexpected. It's the reason why I initially started moan-laughing to when I first saw the joke.[/QUOTE] In a hypothetical world where you just normal laughed at the commercial, how would the world be worse off? How is a world where people believe that all people deserve to be given equal respect, but are also able to laugh at off color, disgusting, or depraved comedy worse than the world where everyone get's uncomfortable when anything that could be interpreted as something genuinely hateful is said? See, what bothers me isn't that people don't like some jokes. That's just how comedy works. What bothers me is people feeling as though everyone should interpret things the way they do, and that people should be upset at certain things. Once you start saying "this joke is immoral", I think you've made a leap to an assertive position that can't be justified. Of course, this isn't necessarily addressed to you, I'm speaking generally.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;50411251]Ill provide a cohesive argument when you get off your high horse man.[/QUOTE] I've been throwing out decent arguments for a while now. You came around and cherry-picked that one phrase for a gimp zinger.
This thread reminds me of a video my friends wanted to make. It was going to be a commercial about "Nazi-brand bleach", and the slogan was "Keeps your whites white, and ERADICATES ALL OTHER COLORS!". As for this video, I don't think they were trying to be racist, they are just trying to say that their bleach is really effective.
[QUOTE=axelord157;50410654]Lighten up at some casual dehumanization, you pussies.[/QUOTE] Grow some fucking skin jesus christ...
boy it sure is easy telling people to dismiss racism as just good ol' ribbing and crude humour when you're not actually that race, isn't it? haha!
All this over an ad for detergent? You people are funnier than the commercials posted earlier.
You see, in my mind a person who says something racist or does something racist is a racist person by definition. That means the definition of 'racist' behavior needs to be stringent enough to afford labeling anyone who acts in that way as a 'a racist' (which is a pretty loaded term). So stuff like this doesn't make a lot of sense to me: [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50411113] I'm not racist yet I can spew racist jokes, the jokes are still racist even though I'm not a racist.[/QUOTE] Making racist jokes makes you a racist. If you can make a joke without the joke making you a racist, it is not a racist joke by definition. I think the definition you should use in that case is that it is a "racially insensitive" joke. "Racially insensitive" has completely different connotations to "racist". "Racially insensitive" just means that you have done or said something that somebody somewhere finds offensive and can cover a whole range of possibilities. This is par for the course of language and cultural development, words that mean very bad things slowly drift into meaning not so bad things due to overuse. I think what I mean when I say "racism" is much, much worse than what some people think when they say "racism". The definition of racism used by some people is actually closer to the definition of racial insensitivity.
They're right. People love to get riled up over nothing these days. It's a fucking ad.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50411901]They're right. People love to get riled up over nothing these days. It's a fucking ad.[/QUOTE] Ads can be racist.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50410692]I find it painfully ironic that they're saying the west is too sensitive when their government is the very definition of sensitive.[/QUOTE] republic of china flag censored on chinese state tv hahaha [media]https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/735732363771027457[/media]
[QUOTE=Zyler;50411898] [b]Making racist jokes makes you a racist. [/b] If you can make a joke without the joke making you a racist, it is not a racist joke by definition. I think the definition you should use in that case is that it is a "racially insensitive" joke. "Racially insensitive" has completely different connotations to "racist". "Racially insensitive" just means that you have done or said something that somebody somewhere finds offensive and can cover a whole range of possibilities. This is par for the course of language and cultural development, words that mean very bad things slowly drift into meaning not so bad things due to overuse. I think what I mean when I say "racism" is much, much worse than what some people think when they say "racism". The definition of racism used by some people is actually closer to the definition of racial insensitivity.[/QUOTE] The fuck is this bullshit logic? So does that mean that someone is a homophobe if he/she makes a gay joke even though he/she is gay him/herself? Does making a black joke makes someone a racist even though he or she is black as well?
Are Chinese people not allowed to think that Chinese people are more attractive than black people? How exactly is that racist?
[QUOTE=sgman91;50412024]Are Chinese people not allowed to think that Chinese people are more attractive than black people? How exactly is that racist?[/QUOTE] the ad is basically saying that being black is being dirty and that having lighter skin means that you're clean. the ad is definitely in bad taste, no doubt about it
Back, this thread went better than I thought it would. [QUOTE=TrulliLulli;50411227]What the Chinese advert implies is that their detergent is so good that it will make anything white, so when she puts a black dude in it he transforms into a white dude and it's quite comical. Nowhere did it imply white people are better than black people. Nowhere did it imply that black people are 'unclean'. The whole advert is a joke. Surprise surprise. The fact that you're somehow pulling "Asian people are better than black people" from this is highly amusing and quite telling. In a truly racism-free society you can make a joke about skin color as that's all it is, skin color, and if you think it's anything more, well... At this stage I think most of us know that a person isn't defined by their skin color, yet the fact that this advert gets massive backlash and the Italian one doesn't immediately tells you that there's something fucking wrong and holy shit how can you not see it. I'm sure you've seen multiple comedians making jokes of the whole racism issue, and this should be interpreted in the same way. Thinking that race makes a difference: racist. Making a joke of skin color: [sp]not racist[/sp][/QUOTE] Alright, first, watch the advert over again. Take a look and watch as how with both the Italian and the Chinese commercial, the woman initially rejects the man because of the way they appear. However, when they come out of the washer again, the woman is clearly more attracted due to the new way they look, and especially because of their new race in the Chinese one. This isn't just a joke about "cleaning" the races, it's also about which one is more "attractive". How attractive someone is also a measure of their superiority. Since these ads portray the fact that the women in them are more attracted to the men of different race, we can come to the conclusion that these ads are promoting one race over the other. Therefore, these commercials are in fact, racist. Also, nowhere did I deny that this was humor. Like I said before, I found it funny myself. I get the joke. To deny that this joke was racist, or as someone earlier said racially insensitive, is completely denying the truth. And one final thing: I like how you tried to turn this around on me by calling me a racist for discussing this. How stupid do you think we are? The discussion of race and how racially insensitive ideas can hurt those of that race is not racist in one slightest bit. If it is, then we might as well all be racist since we all accept that there is differences between us in the form of our physical appearances.
[QUOTE=KonorB;50412016]The fuck is this bullshit logic? So does that mean that someone is a homophobe if he/she makes a gay joke even though he/she is gay him/herself?[/QUOTE] You can be discriminatory towards your own race. I don't think offensive jokes make you a discriminatory person though.
i don't think the people who made the ad put any thought into what it could potentially mean considering they ripped it off nearly 1:1
[QUOTE=/dev/sda1;50412039]the ad is basically saying that being black is being dirty and that having lighter skin means that you're clean. the ad is definitely in bad taste, no doubt about it[/QUOTE] I really think you're reading too much into it. The point was obviously that the asian dude was more physically attractive. The cleaner supposedly made the guy look better just like it'll make your clothes look better. They wouldn't have gone out of their way to make the black guy look dirty with paint smears all over him if being black was enough to put that message across. They even specifically zoom in on the asian guy's white shirt to show how clean it is.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50412051]Back, this thread went better than I thought it would. Alright, first, watch the advert over again. Take a look and watch as how with both the Italian and the Chinese commercial, the woman rejects the man due to the way they appear. However, when they come out of the washer again, the woman is clearly more attracted due to the new way they look, and especially because of their new race in the Chinese one. This isn't just a joke about "cleaning" the races, it's also about which one is more "attractive". Therefore, both of these made the statement that black people are better then one people and vice versa. Also, nowhere did I deny that this was humor. Like I said before, I found it funny myself. I get the joke. To deny that this joke was racist, or as someone earlier said racially insensitive, is completely denying the truth. And one final thing: I like how you tried to turn this around on me by calling me a racist for discussing this. How stupid do you think we are? The discussion of race and how racially insensitive ideas can hurt those of that race is not racist in one slightest bit. If it is, then we might as well all be racist since we all accept that there is differences between us in the form of our physical appearances.[/QUOTE] See, like, that's the problem. You can't measure how much someone is "harmed" by a joke. Whatever answer you come up with is going to be speculation. When you're going through that whole problematizing process, asking "who did this, who did they do it for, who does this hurt, who does this help", the last half of that process is almost always going to be pulling shit out of your ass Unless you're talking about some cult leader saying "gas the jews" and all his followers proceeding to burn down synagogues, you can't really draw lines from media or statements to actions, like the world just isn't that easy to quantify
If your the kind of person who sees this both of theses ads and have vietnam flashbacks to slavery and civil rights movements you werent born yet to experience, we can't help you. Undertones are created in your own head when you see things that fit certain patterns, regardless of whether or not the author intended a specific message. On one hand, you can choose to see a story of ethnic cleansing and elimination of dark skinned humans, on the other, you can choose to see an advertorial joke about how their shitty detergant is so effective it will literally invert your entire appearance. If there's an ad about cereal and it makes the eater grow taller there isnt a hidden message about genocide of short people unless your distorted mind puts it there. You, the viewer, decide what to take away. If you dislike racism, seeing it everywhere it probably isnt, and bringing it up over petty jokes is a bad idea, and will only perpetuate it by ensuring the option always stays in peoples heads. Instead, don't assume the worst, and unless there is a very clear case of discrimination, don't bring racism up.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50412083]See, like, that's the problem. You can't measure how much someone is "harmed" by a joke. Whatever answer you come up with is going to be speculation. When you're going through that whole problematizing process, asking "who did this, who did they do it for, who does this hurt, who does this help", the last half of that process is almost always going to be pulling shit out of your ass Unless you're talking about some cult leader saying "gas the jews" and all his followers proceeding to burn down synagogues, you can't really draw lines from media or statements to actions, like the world just isn't that easy to quantify[/QUOTE] I was really more arguing about the fact that these commercials are racist and I really only put that bit about "racially insensitive ideas can hurt those of that race" since it made it sound better than "The discussion of race is not racist". It's not up to me to quantify if people were or were not hurt over this commercial.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50412100]I was really more arguing about the fact that these commercials are racist and I really only put that bit about "racially insensitive ideas can hurt those of that race" since it made it sound better than "The discussion of race is not racist". It's not up to me to quantify if people were or were not hurt over this commercial.[/QUOTE] Forgive me, but could you explain to me precisely what racist means in this context? Because the way you're declaring it seems like you think it refers to an objective, measurable quality, but all the descriptions I've heard so far seem to refer more to a bunch of subjective qualities. Like, when people say "you can't decide what isn't racist", that implies to me that there is no objective measure of what makes something racist.
[QUOTE=Perrine;50410660]the commercial people are getting offended over [media]https://youtu.be/Xq-I0JRhvt4[/media] the commercial it was copied from that nobody got offended over [media]https://youtu.be/HQQs3nl0LcY[/media][/QUOTE] Whoa, the Chinese even copy commercials? Seriously, can someone explain what the deal is with China producing so much counterfeit content?
[QUOTE=srobins;50412112]Whoa, the Chinese even copy commercials? Seriously, can someone explain what the deal is with China producing so much counterfeit content?[/QUOTE] Is it possible that someone who is Chinese thought a commercial for a similar product was funny enough to want to parody it, or do you think Chinese people have a compulsion to copy things?
[QUOTE=KonorB;50412016]The fuck is this bullshit logic? So does that mean that someone is a homophobe if he/she makes a gay joke even though he/she is gay him/herself? Does making a black joke makes someone a racist even though he or she is black as well?[/QUOTE] No it means the 'gay joke' must not be homophobic or the 'black joke' must not be racist by definition. That's the point I was trying to make. Keep in mind the identity of the person telling the joke might be a part of the joke too. To put it another way, asking yourself "does saying or doing this make me a racist?" is a litmus test of whether something is racist. Also, there's no reason someone couldn't be racist towards a group they belong to, assuming racism means being prejudiced or thinking one race is superior to another.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50412123]Is it possible that someone who is Chinese thought a commercial for a similar product was funny enough to want to parody it, or do you think Chinese people have a compulsion to copy things?[/QUOTE] I'm clearly referring to the fact that China manufactures an insane amount of counterfeit materials as a nation, it has nothing to do with race or genetics..
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50412110]Forgive me, but could you explain to me precisely what racist means in this context? Because the way you're declaring it seems like you think it refers to an objective, measurable quality, but all the descriptions I've heard so far seem to refer more to a bunch of subjective qualities. Like, when people say "you can't decide what isn't racist", that implies to me that there is no objective measure of what makes something racist.[/QUOTE] Well, really there are only really 2 interpretations of the word racism that are considered true. The first one is simply that racism is the use of social institutions combined with the bigotry and prejudice of different people to systematically oppress a minority. This interpretation goes back to even before slavery. If you ever meet someone who thinks that whites are the only ones that can be racists, they are either talking about this interpretation or are legitimately stupid. Generally only academics really use this interpretation anymore, so it'll likely be the latter. The second one is pretty simple. It's the idea that one race is superior to the other. You are racist if you hold or otherwise promote these beliefs. If someone holds an interpretation that is no where near either of these ones, they probably have no idea what they're talking about. [editline]29th May 2016[/editline] I'm talking about the second one by the way.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50412227]Well, really there are only 2 true interpretations of the word racism. The first one is simply that racism is the use of social institutions combined with the bigotry and prejudice of different people to systematically oppress a minority. This interpretation goes back to even before slavery. If you ever meet someone who thinks that whites are the only ones that can be racists, they are either talking about this interpretation or are legitimately stupid. Generally people don't use this interpretation anymore anyways, so it'll likely be the latter. The second one is pretty simple. It's the idea that one race is superior to the other. You are racist if you hold or otherwise promote these beliefs. If someone holds an interpretation that is no where near either of these ones, they probably have no idea what they're talking about.[/QUOTE] as for the first interpretation, I've already explained that I think you can't objectively quantify something like "oppression" like the only way you could would be to strictly define oppression, and I don't think people are really willing to do that either, so we're back to square one And with the second, again, the problem is we're dealing with comedy. I don't think the Italians seriously made a commercial about how black people are racially superior to Italians. So can you really call it a statement of racial superiority, when it's almost certainly not true? like, if your method of analyzing the world leads you to come to conclusions like that ad being a serious endorsement of racial superiority, shouldn't that be a sign that your method of analysis is missing something?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50412256]as for the first interpretation, I've already explained that I think you can't objectively quantify something like "oppression" like the only way you could would be to strictly define oppression, and I don't think people are really willing to do that either, so we're back to square one And with the second, again, the problem is we're dealing with comedy. I don't think the Italians seriously made a commercial about how black people are racially superior to Italians. So can you really call it a statement of racial superiority, when it's almost certainly not true? like, if your method of analyzing the world leads you to come to conclusions like that ad being a serious endorsement of racial superiority, shouldn't that be a sign that your method of analysis is missing something?[/QUOTE] To take this point even further, what about the second Italian ad, [video]https://youtube.com/watch?v=77wSICyzhhc[/video] Is it making a statement that black men are superior to Italian women?
[QUOTE=Zyler;50412293]To take this point even further, what about the second Italian ad, [video]https://youtube.com/watch?v=77wSICyzhhc[/video] Is it making a statement that black men are superior to Italian women?[/QUOTE] the husband thinks that he will get an attractive black woman (as evident to the magazine he's looking at) for trading his wife. the punchline is that he doesn't get a black woman, but instead a black man (callback to previous commercial). he is punished for trying to trade his italian wife for a black woman. really the only thing I see offensive about this commercial is the fact that it's making fun of homosexuality, and that's really stretching it. I would have to hear an argument from someone who is actually offended by the commercial to understand why someone else would be offended by this.
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