AP-GfK Poll: Resistance to health care bill strong - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ProboardslolV2;21398839]I'm all for socialized health care, but I was getting pretty fucking pissed when I went into the ER with an actual emergency and waited for 3 hours while people who were using the place as a doctors office went ahead of me [/QUOTE] That can't happen, it's a triaged system. You either didn't have a real emergency, underestimated the severity of the other people's issues, or you are lying.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;21398865]That can't happen, it's a triaged system. You either didn't have a real emergency, underestimated the severity of the other people's issues, or you are lying.[/QUOTE] This.

[QUOTE=ImBill;21398538]guys americans just want to defend their right to pay more for worse quality service don't you understand[/QUOTE] If we really were worse, people wouldn't be come here for cancer treatment.

[QUOTE=Glaber;21399111]If we really were worse, people wouldn't be come here for cancer treatment.[/QUOTE] It's worse for the average man, which is what is important, on account of the fact that it costs much more. Any social program should only been deemed excellent if everyone in a nation has access to it.

[QUOTE=Glaber;21399111]If we really were worse, people wouldn't be come here for cancer treatment.[/QUOTE] they come here for the enhanced technologies, something offered by the medical sales market which doesn't relate to healthcare at all.

[QUOTE=thisispain;21399217]they come here for the enhanced technologies, something offered by the medical sales market which doesn't relate to healthcare at all.[/QUOTE] It doesn't? explain.

[QUOTE=Glaber;21399279]It doesn't? explain.[/QUOTE] hospitals buy medical property, insurance companies have no hand in it

[QUOTE=thisispain;21399330]hospitals buy medical property, insurance companies have no hand in it[/QUOTE] Your logic confuses me. What roll do insurance companies play in something like getting a filling, or treating a sprained ankle, or getting a booster shot?

[QUOTE=Glaber;21399405]Your logic confuses me. What roll do insurance companies play in something like getting a filling, or treating a sprained ankle, or getting a booster shot?[/QUOTE] they pay the hospital for the procedure? Canada's healthcare system lacks technologies because Canada's economy has never been that strong and many biotech only rarely sell to them.

people don't come from Canada/Europe to the U.S. for treatment because their healthcare system is ineffective (and incidences of this are over-reported), they come because they can afford to, they have the money to access the wide variety of specialized care available in the U.S.

[QUOTE=thisispain;21399494]they pay the hospital for the procedure? Canada's healthcare system lacks technologies because Canada's economy has never been that strong and many biotech only rarely sell to them.[/QUOTE] Our socialized medicine is pretty half assed to be honest, especially considering we have conservatives in power.

[QUOTE=thisispain;21399494] Canada's healthcare system lacks technologies[/QUOTE] Like what [editline]02:36AM[/editline] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21399577]Our socialized medicine is pretty half assed to be honest, especially considering we have conservatives in power.[/QUOTE] Right. I want dental and prescription drugs covered, damn it.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;21400202]Like what[/QUOTE] There's more MRI machines in New York City than there are in the entirety of Canada.

[QUOTE=thisispain;21400209]There's more MRI machines in New York City than there are in the entirety of Canada.[/QUOTE] Take population into account please I want to see a ratio of MRI machines:People for both countries (and if it is revealed that we have less MRI machines per capita, I want to see a causal link between this and some kind of serious healthcare problem)

[QUOTE=thisispain;21399494]they pay the hospital for the procedure? ...[/QUOTE] Is that all? The way I see it, you don't fully understand what health[b]care[/b] is. I might not fully understand it either, but here's how I see it: (Includes what I'm lead to believe adds to the cost) 1: Students train to become Doctors and Dentists, but as a side effect they rack up debt from student loans. 2: Hospitals buy or develop new technologies to [b]treat[/b] diseases and other medical problems like broken bones and such. 3: Before a certain year, Doctors didn't need to do so many preventive care tests. But Today they have to for several reasons. One of witch I keep hearing is to avoid a malpractice law suit. 4:If Patients have to wait, they aren't getting the care they need until they meet with the doctor or get into the operating room. The longer the wait the worse their problem gets. At least one hospital chain has started posting their wait times online as a response to this. 5: If the medical problem is life threatening, the Patient is treated regardless of cost and billed later. Sometimes an arrangement can be worked out with the doctor depending on circumstances and the doctor 6: To help make all of this affordable, insurance companies can help pay for a procedure, filling, check up, or even a flu shot. The experience with the insurance I'm covered with (my father's) tells me that the insurance companies don't pay for the entire cost and that the patient still has to pay something. This being a co-pay. Their may be insurance plans that do cover the full costs for certain things, but if those plans exist outside of the state you live in you don't have access to them for some asinine reason. This doesn't change by nationalizing Health care. Doctors will still have loans to pay back and have to do those costly test. By nationalizing Health care or Health insurance you wind up with a higher possibility of not being covered due to the government not wanting to spend the funds for that broken leg, or that cleft lip, or even [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=917339]that procedure for your breast you were promised earlier[/url]. Now in that understanding there were several things that helped increase cost of not only the care, but the insurance too. Care: Student loans that need to be re-payed, multiple tests regardless of need, the latest technology being used (true of even video games), government taking over health insurance (thankfully that hasn't happened yet) Insurance: lack of country wide competition Call me dumb, say I don't under stand any of it, but look it over and think about it. Talk about it with others offline and see if it doesn't make any sense. From where I'm sitting this makes sense to me.

[QUOTE=Glaber;21400260] By nationalizing Health care or Health insurance you wind up with a higher possibility of not being covered due to the government not wanting to spend the funds for that broken leg, or that cleft lip, or even [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=917339]that procedure for your breast you were promised earlier[/url].[/QUOTE] That's the problem with your argument. You're assuming. You can't assume in something like this. And that linked story was a cosmetic procedure boyo. Completely dumb that they went against their word, but she wasn't technically denied healthcare.

[QUOTE=Glaber;21400260] 1: Students train to become Doctors and Dentists, but as a side effect they rack up debt from student loans.[/QUOTE] I suppose. [QUOTE=Glaber;21400260]2: Hospitals buy or develop new technologies to [b]treat[/b] diseases and other medical problems like broken bones and such.[/QUOTE] Well that's a large generalization. [QUOTE=Glaber;21400260]3: Before a certain year, Doctors didn't need to do so many preventive care tests. But Today they have to for several reasons. One of witch I keep hearing is to avoid a malpractice law suit.[/QUOTE] That is completely false. You can't get hit with a suit for not running preventive care tests. [QUOTE=Glaber;21400260]4:If Patients have to wait, they aren't getting the care they need until they meet with the doctor or get into the operating room. The longer the wait the worse their problem gets. At least one hospital chain has started posting their wait times online as a response to this.[/QUOTE] I suppose. [QUOTE=Glaber;21400260]5: If the medical problem is life threatening, the Patient is treated regardless of cost and billed later. Sometimes an arrangement can be worked out with the doctor depending on circumstances and the doctor [/QUOTE] No, not always. Depends on the medical problem, and the doctor does not work out arrangements. [QUOTE=Glaber;21400260]6: To help make all of this affordable, insurance companies can help pay for a procedure, filling, check up, or even a flu shot. The experience with the insurance I'm covered with (my father's) tells me that the insurance companies don't pay for the entire cost and that the patient still has to pay something. This being a co-pay.[/QUOTE] Uh I suppose. [QUOTE=Glaber;21400260]Their may be insurance plans that do cover the full costs for certain things, but if those plans exist outside of the state you live in you don't have access to them for some asinine reason.[/QUOTE] Businesses cannot operate everywhere. [QUOTE=Glaber;21400260]This doesn't change by nationalizing Health care. Doctors will still have loans to pay back and have to do those costly test. By nationalizing Health care or Health insurance you wind up with a higher possibility of not being covered due to the government not wanting to spend the funds for that broken leg, or that cleft lip, or even [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=917339]that procedure for your breast you were promised earlier[/url].[/QUOTE] Concerning the "breast" procedure, private insurance still exists in Britain. She wouldn't be able to pay for it either way. [QUOTE=Glaber;21400260]Call me dumb, say I don't under stand any of it, but look it over and think about it. Talk about it with others offline and see if it doesn't make any sense. From where I'm sitting this makes sense to me.[/QUOTE] what was your point

That I at least knew something about what I was arguing about. Oh and about the response to point 5, tell that to Sean Hannity. He had to do work something out with his doctor before. [QUOTE=Zeke129;21400312]That's the problem with your argument. You're assuming. You can't assume in something like this. And that linked story was a cosmetic procedure boyo. Completely dumb that they went against their word, but she wasn't technically denied healthcare.[/QUOTE] If I can't, you can't. Unless you know for sure what the US government would do, how can either of us guess without using the information provided to us. Even then we wound have to trust our sources. Though knowing you, You don't trust the same sources I do. I'd think twice before assuming that the government won't deny some one something they need medical.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21397828]A whole lot of misinformation out there I suppose. Once government healthcare comes in, people will probably like it however. People are naturally opposed to change. I don't understand how every other western nation can have socialized medicine, and have it work great and have longer life expectancies than the USA, but Americans still oppose it.[/QUOTE] Because europe communism k?

[QUOTE=Glaber;21400382]That I at least knew something about what I was arguing about. Oh and about the response to point 5, tell that to Sean Hannity. He had to do work something out with his doctor before.[/QUOTE] It wasn't a hospital doctor then, it was either the administrator or he's talking about a private doctor.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;21400202] Right. I want dental and prescription drugs covered, damn it.[/QUOTE] Prescription drugs aren't unreasonable.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21400419]Prescription drugs aren't unreasonable.[/QUOTE] Dental is a form of healthcare and there's no reason why it shouldn't be covered as well. [editline]03:26AM[/editline] And there's countries like Sweden that pay student's tuition too. Let's do that

[QUOTE=Zeke129;21400628]Dental is a form of healthcare and there's no reason why it shouldn't be covered as well. [editline]03:26AM[/editline] And there's countries like Sweden that pay student's tuition too. Let's do that[/QUOTE] Yes but you have to consider the cost, and the rewards. People can have fairly bad teeth and still operate in society. It's hard to do anything if you're too poor to afford medication, or buying medication cut into your rent for the month etc.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21400654]Yes but you have to consider the cost, and the rewards. People can have fairly bad teeth and still operate in society. It's hard to do anything if you're too poor to afford medication, or buying medication cut into your rent for the month etc.[/QUOTE] True. I'd definitely want dental procedures to be classified either as necessary (filling cavities, root canals) or cosmetic (braces, teeth whitening) and only have the former covered.

[QUOTE=thisispain;21400400]It wasn't a hospital doctor then, it was either the administrator or he's talking about a private doctor.[/QUOTE] Probably. Chances are it was a private doctor. [editline]06:01AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;21400877]True. I'd definitely want dental procedures to be classified either as necessary (filling cavities, root canals) or cosmetic (braces, teeth whitening) and only have the former covered.[/QUOTE] How are braces not necessary? Last I knew they helped crooked teeth come in strait.

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics. And this thread is about the last one. :colbert:

[QUOTE=Glaber;21401622]How are braces not necessary? Last I knew they helped crooked teeth come in strait.[/QUOTE] Braces are for cosmetic reasons in a lot of cases.

[QUOTE=Glaber;21400260]the insurance I'm covered with (my father's)[/QUOTE] So your father's insurance covers you? A higher entity (your father) pays for your medical care for you, just like the government would. Just wait until you pay thousands of dollars a year for health insurance.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21397828]I don't understand how every other western nation can have socialized medicine, and have it work great and have longer life expectancies than the USA, but Americans still oppose it.[/QUOTE]To be honest we're not the sharpest of knives in the kitchen drawer.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21397828] I don't understand how every other western nation can have socialized medicine, and have it work great and have longer life expectancies than the USA, but Americans still oppose it.[/QUOTE] America is gigantic compared to most nations, merely copying another Western nation's health care scheme wouldn't work at all. But I don't know why so many people are opposing it, regardless.