Wisconsin Republicans Step Up Pressure on Dems Who Fled State - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183222]I'm still kind of at a loss with this whole argument about rushing things through and that it's now unfair because Republicans have a majority.[/QUOTE] Part of the reason these things happen is the system isn't perfect, and grinding it to a halt is better than letting it spin out of control just because one party controls the system. Obviously, if my preferred party is in power, I'd want them to do as much as possible, and the opposing party would be opposed to some of the things that would be being passed. It is necessary that such things be stoppable, or you get a tyranny of the majority - not fun stuff.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28183230]Don't even try that argument, the democrats let the republicans gut the shit out of that bill. The thing that passed isn't even close to what they originally wanted or what the American people need. Are you a republican, itchy?[/QUOTE] Most certainly not. I just find it amusing lurking and examining the kinds of discussions on this board. A lot of information posted on this board just usually seems baseless and opinion based as opposed to objective and not emotionally based from a political stance, left or right. Which is why I believe when it comes right down to it, the law is to be enforced in this situation when everyone, both sides, become emotionally charged and unstable and will NOT come to a resolution because of how dyed in the wool everyone is. And the law would deem what the fleeing Dems and protesting teachers are doing as illegal. I mean they're tracking them down to arrest them already for goodness sake, you going to tell me that's violating their rights too and they're standing up for truth and justice and what the people want?

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183304] Which is why I believe when it comes right down to it, the law is to be enforced in this situation when everyone, both sides, become emotionally charged and unstable and will NOT come to a resolution because of how dyed in the wool everyone is. And the law would deem what the fleeing Dems and protesting teachers are doing as illegal. I mean they're tracking them down to arrest them already for goodness sake, you going to tell me that's violating their rights?[/QUOTE] Well I only spoke to the morality of their actions, not the legality of it. I will say that I hold the former in higher regard than the latter when judging the decisions of others.

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183304]Most certainly not. I just find it amusing lurking and examining the kinds of discussions on this board. A lot of information posted on this board just usually seems baseless and opinion based as opposed to objective and not emotionally based from a political stance, left or right. Which is why I believe when it comes right down to it, the law is to be enforced in this situation when everyone, both sides, become emotionally charged and unstable and will NOT come to a resolution because of how dyed in the wool everyone is. And the law would deem what the fleeing Dems and protesting teachers are doing as illegal. I mean they're tracking them down to arrest them already for goodness sake, you going to tell me that's violating their rights too and they're standing up for truth and justice and what the people want?[/QUOTE] Speaking of baseless, want to source your claim that it's illegal for teachers to protest and representatives to vacate their seat?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28183165] Which assumes the people that voted them in wanted this. We have no idea if they did or didn't because it's being rushed through so fast to avoid any real discussion or conversation about it.[/QUOTE] What makes you assume they don't want it? That argument is irrelevant, honestly.

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183332]What makes you assume they don't want it? That argument is irrelevant, honestly.[/QUOTE] Yes, whether a law is wanted or not is completely irrelevant to whether it should be passed or not... What?

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183332]What makes you assume they don't want it?[/QUOTE] Well the protests, for one.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;28183325]Speaking of baseless, want to source your claim that it's illegal for teachers to protest and representatives to vacate their seat?[/QUOTE] Well for one they've had fraudulent doctor's notes written for them to participate in the protests that state they are ill enough to have to leave work, which is against the law, as well as the doctor's can (and probably will) face charges and lose their licenses. And representatives take an oath when sworn in to uphold their role and perform required functions. Fleeing a post like that used to be defined as treason. We don't seem to understand that concept anymore. Regardless, it's against the law, if the law enforcement across several states searching for them wasn't already a big giveaway for that.

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183413]Well for one they've had fraudulent doctor's notes written for them to participate in the protests that state they are ill enough to have to leave work, which is against the law, as well as the doctor's can (and probably will) face charges and lose their licenses. And representatives take an oath when sworn in to uphold their role and perform required functions. Fleeing a post like that used to be defined as treason. We don't seem to understand that concept anymore. Regardless, it's against the law, if the law enforcement across several states searching for them wasn't already a big giveaway for that.[/QUOTE] Got a source for any of this?

[url]http://www.newser.com/story/112465/wisconsin-protests-doctors-notes-handed-out-to-protesters-as-the-opposing-side-shows-up-and-gov.html[/url] [url]http://www.examiner.com/county-conservative-in-milwaukee/wisconsin-standoff-who-will-blink-first[/url] [url]http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/cheating-taxpayer-fake-doctors-notes-wisconsin?quicktabs_1=0[/url] As for the oaths try looking up the law.

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183413]Well for one they've had fraudulent doctor's notes written for them to participate in the protests that state they are ill enough to have to leave work, which is against the law, as well as the doctor's can (and probably will) face charges and lose their licenses. And representatives take an oath when sworn in to uphold their role and perform required functions. Fleeing a post like that used to be defined as treason. We don't seem to understand that concept anymore. Regardless, it's against the law, if the law enforcement across several states searching for them wasn't already a big giveaway for that.[/QUOTE] I was with you until you said treason. America executes people for treason, if you think these politicians deserve to be executed you are a nut.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28183487]I was with you until you said treason. America executes people for treason, if you think these politicians deserve to be executed you are a nut.[/QUOTE] Fuck did I really type treason? It's 3 am here dude. I got that confused with the definition for like, upholding rights and fufilling obligations. I didn't mean it in a "defy and execute" way. The words not coming to mind right now.

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183518]Fuck did I really type treason? It's 3 am here dude. I got that confused with the definition for like, upholding rights and fufilling obligations. I didn't mean it in a "defy and execute" way. The words not coming to mind right now.[/QUOTE] Would it be more acceptable if they went to work to talk constantly to avoid allowing the legislation to come to a vote. Y'know, filibustering, which is done all the time and not considered to be so terrible?

Best example I can give of the situation. They are not "standing up for Democracy." They clearly don't believe in Democracy, hence the running away and refusing to vote, regardless of what the "odds" are against them. How do they expect this to end well?

So would standing there talking constantly, thereby delaying the vote indefinitely, be acceptable?

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183332]What makes you assume they don't want it? That argument is irrelevant, honestly.[/QUOTE] Protests. You know, the important part of all this. The dems aren't acting out of self interest. The dems aren't trying to give themselves more money in this situation as far as I can see. they're trying to make sure some basic parts of regulation for workers and etc.

[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;28183575]So would standing there talking constantly, thereby delaying the vote indefinitely, be acceptable?[/QUOTE] The point is if they just keep delaying the vote then how does that reflect well on them? It becomes childish. It's the equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum when someone doesn't have something go the way they want to so they refuse to oblige to the situation. You can't delay something forever simply on the basis you don't agree with it. How is that democracy?

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183553]Best example I can give of the situation. They are not "standing up for Democracy." They clearly don't believe in Democracy, hence the running away and refusing to vote, regardless of what the "odds" are against them. How do they expect this to end well?[/QUOTE] You still haven't explained how the bill being rushed through without discusion is "standing up for democracy" by the republicans.

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183619]The point is if they just keep delaying the vote then how does that reflect well on them? It becomes childish. It's the equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum when someone doesn't have something go the way they want to so they refuse to oblige to the situation. You can't delay something forever simply on the basis you don't agree with it. How is that democracy?[/QUOTE] how is rushing a law through just because you can since you have the majority democracy? it's just tyranny of the majority.

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183619]The point is if they just keep delaying the vote then how does that reflect well on them? It becomes childish. It's the equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum when someone doesn't have something go the way they want to so they refuse to oblige to the situation. You can't delay something forever simply on the basis you don't agree with it. How is that democracy?[/QUOTE] They'll delay until they get to have a discussion with real value. Not just rush it through

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183619]The point is if they just keep delaying the vote then how does that reflect well on them? It becomes childish. It's the equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum when someone doesn't have something go the way they want to so they refuse to oblige to the situation. You can't delay something forever simply on the basis you don't agree with it. How is that democracy?[/QUOTE] It's how the whole system works. The majority can't just crush the minority just because. You can't just push slightly less than half the population around when you feel like it. These individuals may be elected according to their party, but they still represent everyone in their districts. They can't just ignore huge numbers of people because they got their magical 51% approval.

I think Glaber is trolling us all.

[QUOTE=ItchyBarracuda;28183619]The point is if they just keep delaying the vote then how does that reflect well on them? It becomes childish. It's the equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum when someone doesn't have something go the way they want to so they refuse to oblige to the situation. You can't delay something forever simply on the basis you don't agree with it. How is that democracy?[/QUOTE] The alternative in this situation isn't democratic either. The republicans didn't give the opposition time to voice their concerns, what the democrats are doing now is bringing attention to something that would have happened behind closed doors had the repubs had their way.

[QUOTE=Explosions;28183655]I think Glaber is trolling us all.[/QUOTE] yeah when he started calling them cowards and stuff that just seems TOO far out

I thought people here knew that running away was the Coward's way out.

people tune in to what they want to hear, don't hate fox news for being a company

[QUOTE=Glaber;28199974]I thought people here knew that running away was the Coward's way out.[/QUOTE] grow up...

[QUOTE=Glaber;28199974]I thought people here knew that running away was the Coward's way out.[/QUOTE] What about olympic runners glaber WHAT ABOUT THEM [editline]21st February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Archy;28200112]people tune in to what they want to hear, don't hate fox news for being a company[/QUOTE] Enron and Halliburton, just companies too

[QUOTE=Glaber;28199974]I thought people here knew that running away was the Coward's way out.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.hark.com/clips/nsbkzfvlfr-cowards-do-survive[/url] Yes, and here's a recording of those cowardly democrats as they fled the scene. ...In all seriousness, of course, I'd like the try to explain why they AREN'T being cowards, but it seems like trying to argue with this guy is like arguing with a brick wall.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28200181]What about Olympic runners glaber WHAT ABOUT THEM[/QUOTE] Olympic runners aren't running away, they're running for the gold. It's in their profession to run. These 14 Dem's though, they have a job to do and an image to uphold. By running away, they tarnish the image of the Democrat and loose the trust of the people. Those who stand for Democracy do not run away from it. [editline]21st February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=An Armed Bear;28200301][url]http://www.hark.com/clips/nsbkzfvlfr-cowards-do-survive[/url] Yes, and here's a recording of those cowardly democrats as they fled the scene. ...In all seriousness, of course, I'd like the try to explain why they AREN'T being cowards, but it seems like trying to argue with this guy is like arguing with a brick wall.[/QUOTE] By all means, please explain. I want to hear your explanation.