Religious activities and "time-out" could mean fines for childcare centres.
119 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Strongbad;29004760]As opposed to the far-left evolutionist bullshit you get fed TODAY in primary school, I see.[/QUOTE]
Evolution as a "far-left" idea? Evolution isn't tied to any political ideology, it's a scientific theory.
[QUOTE=hey5000;29006660]Good, those bastards deserve this. I never forgot the time daycare personnel forced me into an empty room and left me to die. I was lucky though, my parents rescued me later that night. If they hadn't, I would be dead. Sadly, I am scarred for life. Now I live inside my parents basement and spend all day fapping to hentai until I cry myself to sleep at night.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit we're similar lets make out.
It's both crap, time-outs are a form of discipline, and aren't childcare centers private, so they don't have to have separation of church? I mean, I would rather that they did, but I don't see why it would be illegal.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;28993781]New laws are completely fucked. From the full text of the law (not shown here), any action which parents consider "unreasonable discipline" can be considered a breach - consequently, anything a childcare centre does could be classified a breach of the law.
And banning "time-outs" is moronic. This bizarre notion that you can seriously reason with a tantrum-chucking toddler has absolutely no place in the real world, except in the minds of the namby-pamby left. You put a child in time-out for being naughty, it teaches them not to be naughty lest they be put in the corner again. That's how little infants work - punishment serves as a deterrant. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly has no experience with the average pre-schooler.
E: I mean seriously, people. Toddlers actually won't follow your logic and reason - it's called throwing a childish tantrum for a reason.[/QUOTE]
Haha do you really think that little kids see time-out as a "deterrent"? They see misbehaving as a fucking game of chicken and time-out as what happens when they lose.
Make it less of a game. Treat them as human beings and teach them to respect people around them and they won't misbehave in the first place. And the ones that do, well, there are much more intuitive punishments than time-out. If they break someone's toy, for example, take away one of their own - stuff like that, which actually has a direct correlation. That way they'll learn [i]why[/i] what they did is wrong instead of just "do x and get put in the corner" which solves nothing.
[QUOTE=Kalibos;28982952]you aussies have a real hardon for banning things unnecessarily[/QUOTE]
Pretty soon they'll ban erections in public too.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29007642]Haha do you really think that little kids see time-out as a "deterrent"? They see misbehaving as a fucking game of chicken and time-out as what happens when they lose.
Make it less of a game. Treat them as human beings and teach them to respect people around them and they won't misbehave in the first place. And the ones that do, well, there are much more intuitive punishments than time-out. If they break someone's toy, for example, take away one of their own - stuff like that, which actually has a direct correlation. That way they'll learn [i]why[/i] what they did is wrong instead of just "do x and get put in the corner" which solves nothing.[/QUOTE]
Dude. It's incredibly basic punishment and reward psychology. When children make the distinction between throwing a tantrum and soon after ending up in a corner, they'll realise that acting the way they did puts them in a non-fun place. Hence, they don't do it. It's how you train animals.
You can do that, or you can do this. You're under the false impression that if you don't try and reason with immature children, they won't learn. Wrong. Save the reasoning for when they're mature enough to understand it, but to claim that anyone who uses the "naughty corner" is incapable of child management is grossly offensive to many caregivers.
The religious things I can understand but time-outs? Enjoy having a generation full of whiny little shits!
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;29013779]Dude. It's incredibly basic punishment and reward psychology. When children make the distinction between throwing a tantrum and soon after ending up in a corner, they'll realise that acting the way they did puts them in a non-fun place. Hence, they don't do it. It's how you train animals.
You can do that, or you can do this. You're under the false impression that if you don't try and reason with immature children, they won't learn. Wrong. Save the reasoning for when they're mature enough to understand it, but to claim that anyone who uses the "naughty corner" is incapable of child management is grossly offensive to many caregivers.[/QUOTE]
Reasoning should always be the first thing you try
If they don't understand try to teach them
If that doesn't work THEN you can just stuff them in the corner
but if you just jump straight to the "x is right, y is wrong, because I said so, do it or else z", you're a terrible parent
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29014104]Reasoning should always be the first thing you try
If they don't understand try to teach them
If that doesn't work THEN you can just stuff them in the corner
but if you just jump straight to the "x is right, y is wrong, because I said so, do it or else z", you're a terrible parent[/QUOTE]
I always hated "because I said so" with a passion. Kid's are open to ideas and extremely malleable so it shouldn't be hard for an adult who is a functioning part of society to tell a kid why they are being confronted for their actions.
[QUOTE=Strongbad;29004760]As opposed to the far-left evolutionist bullshit you get fed TODAY in primary school, I see.[/QUOTE]
Why is evolution incompatible with religion? The Bible doesn't say "Animals don't adapt to the environment".
[QUOTE=Altimor24;29014399]Why is evolution incompatible with religion? The Bible doesn't say "Animals don't adapt to the environment".[/QUOTE]
It says all animals were created by God.
[QUOTE=LuckOrLoss;29014408]It says all animals were created by God.[/QUOTE]
That's still not incompatible with the theory that animals mutate over time.
[QUOTE=Altimor24;29014432]That's still not incompatible with the theory that animals mutate over time.[/QUOTE]
Yes it is, God created all animals 6000 years ago and evolution can't possibly happen in that short of a time.
And I mean new species generation, not just small mutations. When one species turns into two that cannot create offspring between each other.
[QUOTE=Strongbad;29004760]As opposed to the far-left evolutionist bullshit you get fed TODAY in primary school, I see.[/QUOTE]Boo hoo, reality does not conform to your fundamentalist religious beliefs.
Even the fucking Pope says evolution is not incompatible with Christianity.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28984200]Why is it militant to not want religion forced onto children against the will of the parent
I'm not entirely convinced that "militant atheists" even exist in the way religious people think of them, atheists can't be outspoken without being called "militant" these days
[editline]4th April 2011[/editline]
By the way, a "time out" is essentially a way of admitting that you're not capable of disciplining a child properly so I agree with this ruling entirely[/QUOTE]
I myself am an atheist.
I did religious activities at school as a kid, it's really not forcing it on kids to learn about easter and things like that. Hell, we even did religious activities centred around Diwali despite there being no Hindus or Sikhs.
religous activities i can understand, time out? thats too far
[QUOTE=Doozle;28983046]Bible bashers piss me off as well, but atheists who keep pushing there "i'm right, your god doesn't exist" are just as bad as the "hurr, you're going to hell with all the fags" group
[editline]4th April 2011[/editline]
people should be able to believe what they want without having to shove it down other people's throats.[/QUOTE]
i disagree because im a fucking asshole atheist
and religion is stupid, so
[QUOTE=Doozle;28983046]Bible bashers piss me off as well, but atheists who keep pushing there "i'm right, your god doesn't exist" are just as bad as the "hurr, you're going to hell with all the fags" group
[editline]4th April 2011[/editline]
people should be able to believe what they want without having to shove it down other people's throats.[/QUOTE]
By forcing children who are too young to understand that decision to take part in x religion, they are forcing it down their throats.
I don't think anyone's suggested parents not give children time-outs, but simply don't let that be the first thing you jump to.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29014104]Reasoning should always be the first thing you try
If they don't understand try to teach them
If that doesn't work THEN you can just stuff them in the corner
but if you just jump straight to the "x is right, y is wrong, because I said so, do it or else z", you're a terrible parent[/QUOTE]
Combine.
"Right, x is bad because you make y feel sad/etc. Consequently, naughty corner and think about what you've done."
However, bear in mind a lot of the time kids KNOW what they're doing wrong, and do it anyway. This is where plain punishment has its virtues.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;29031303]
However, bear in mind a lot of the time kids KNOW what they're doing wrong, and do it anyway.[/QUOTE]
Well then there are obviously some behavioural problems that may need to be looked into
If a kid doesn't care that what he's doing is wrong, plain punishment isn't going to work either and he is just going to act worse and worse
This is when child psychologists come in handy
This has most probably been mentioned already, but I don't see how 'easter egg hunts' and 'christmass tree decorating' should be banned.
Everyone's talking about it as though children are instantly converted, but I wonder how many atheists in this thread have easter eggs or christmas trees
Schools need to bring back corporal punishment.
[QUOTE=cathal6606;29031832]Schools need to bring back corporal punishment.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but soccer moms would go berserk, and people that don't know how to punish correctly would end up making kids bleed. These days, too many are too stupid to have it.
It sucks.
[QUOTE=cathal6606;29031832]Schools need to bring back corporal punishment.[/QUOTE]
Hitting children as a punishment is just wrong on so many levels.
[QUOTE=Thebumb;28983031]Bible thumpers piss me off so that makes us even. :buddy:[/QUOTE]
Both piss me off.
[QUOTE=cathal6606;29031832]Schools need to bring back corporal punishment.[/QUOTE]
No because that has proven to be wrong and is proven to be damaging for the kid.
[QUOTE=cathal6606;29031832]Schools need to bring back corporal punishment.[/QUOTE]
So should I be allowed to assault adults that annoy me too or what
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29031360]Well then there are obviously some behavioural problems that may need to be looked into
If a kid doesn't care that what he's doing is wrong, plain punishment isn't going to work either and he is just going to act worse and worse
This is when child psychologists come in handy[/QUOTE]
...
When a child is being a brat, you don't need to send them to a psychologist. That's a gross over-reaction. I mean, come on, when was the last time you did something you knew was wrong - is that also the sign of a pathological disorder?
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