• Riot police raid illegal gypsy site Dale Farm - 7 arrested, many injured
    756 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861381]the law obviously isn't universal since it hasn't been universally applied here[/QUOTE] how has it not been universally applied? they're on the site illegally, they don't move when asked to, so riot police move in to try and evict them
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861241]As it stands, no that's wrong [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] you seem to have a lot of hate[/QUOTE] I dislike them because last time I went near one of their camps which they had set up RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LOCAL PARK they tried to kill my dog. I'm not saying all travellers are this bad but many, many people have bad experiences with them and this will of course affect their judgment. You can bang on and on about how people are just being biased by the news and by not-being-perfect-like-ol'-Zeke racists but if I see a band of travellers I'm suspicious because of past experience and I'm sure it's the same for many others as they don't want to have them near to where they live due to the trouble they usually cause.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15062160[/url] All I can find right now, You might have to back to the beginning of September to find more but searching on this is hard.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32861443][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15062160[/url] All I can find right now, You might have to back to the beginning of September to find more but searching on this is hard.[/QUOTE] One lady said that their school, community centre, and church were destroyed, did the travellers actually do that or was she lying? (I searched but couldn't find any investigation on something like that)
Perhaps we'll never know. I think there might've been more interviews with the locals in a One Show episode as well. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0144tp1[/url] see if you can find a link to that one.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861490]One lady said that their school, community centre, and church were destroyed, did the travellers actually do that or was she lying?[/QUOTE] I don't know Zeke but I'd imagine you'd favour what the pikeys would say rather than the woman.
[QUOTE=Vasili;32861528]I don't know Zeke but I'd imagine you'd favour what the pikeys would say rather than the woman.[/QUOTE] I want facts. If three buildings were destroyed there'd be a record of it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861222]Have you taken time to wonder why they weren't granted those permits?[/QUOTE] Because it's on a green belt... the whole point of green belts is to preserve countryside
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861490]One lady said that their school, community centre, and church were destroyed, did the travellers actually do that or was she lying? (I searched but couldn't find any investigation on something like that)[/QUOTE] I don't think she meant literally she probably meant that their presence has made it "unsafe" or something
[QUOTE=matt.ant;32861534]Because it's on a green belt... the whole point of green belts is to preserve countryside[/QUOTE] Exceptions are granted constantly. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=wewt!;32861551]I don't think she meant literally[/QUOTE] Well what happened then?
[QUOTE=macdoo999;32861413]I dislike them because last time I went near one of their camps which they had set up RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LOCAL PARK they tried to kill my dog. I'm not saying all travellers are this bad but many, many people have bad experiences with them and this will of course affect their judgment. You can bang on and on about how people are just being biased by the news and by not-being-perfect-like-ol'-Zeke racists but if I see a band of travellers I'm suspicious because of past experience and I'm sure it's the same for many others as they don't want to have them near to where they live due to the trouble they usually cause.[/QUOTE] they piss off everyone they go near pretty much, the waitrose near me closes every year for a few days because of some random reason, but it seems likely it closes on that weekend because thats when the steamfair gypsies come and apparently waitrose used to get everything robbed from it ha
I find it amazing that Zeke can so desperately argue against generalization for 10 pages yet does not understand the fact that one example of a traveller site being refused planning permission and one example of a large development being given it does not prove a bias in an entire country's planning system.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861562]Well what happened then?[/QUOTE] I'd imagine bottles left around, windows smashed, things stolen, general vandalism
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861562]Well what happened then?[/QUOTE] I dunno :v: it's possible that she meant that they had a "negative effect" on the community or something like that
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32861573]I find it amazing that Zeke can so desperately argue against generalization for 10 pages yet does not understand the fact that one example of a traveller site being refused planning permission and one example of a large development being given it does not prove a bias in an entire country's planning system.[/QUOTE] Has a gypsy camp EVER been granted an exception? [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570445/Green-Belt-disappearing.html]Here's an article from 2007 that shows how much green belt land is being developed on[/url], so there hasn't just been ONE exception.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32861573]I find it amazing that Zeke can so desperately argue against generalization for 10 pages yet does not understand the fact that one example of a traveller site being refused planning permission and one example of a large development being given it does not prove a bias in an entire country's planning system.[/QUOTE] There is a general bias in society though, a nice street would definitely respond negatively if a romani tried to even legally move into a house. Yeah, there are people who are living illegaly on land that wasn't meant to be built on, but there's also people who unconditionally hate
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861562]Exceptions are granted constantly. [/QUOTE] How do you know all this if you live in Canada
[QUOTE=matt.ant;32861615]How do you know all this if you live in Canada[/QUOTE] magical thing called the internet grants me access to information from around the world! how do you know I'm in Canada if you live in the UK
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861607]Has a gypsy camp EVER been granted an exception? [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570445/Green-Belt-disappearing.html]Here's an article from 2007 that shows how much green belt land is being developed on[/url], so there hasn't just been ONE exception.[/QUOTE] It might be that these caravan parks are tax-evasive and houses... aren't? [editline];[/editline] Also because these housing developments had planning permissions in [I]advance[/I].
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;32861634]It might be that these caravan parks are tax-evasive and houses... aren't?[/QUOTE] Neighter are supposed to exist on green belts though, which shows there is indeed bias in the law
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;32861634]It might be that these caravan parks are tax-evasive and houses... aren't?[/QUOTE] well half of this camp was completely legal so obviously they aren't all criminals, why couldn't whatever happened to make the one half legal happen to make the other half legal as well
[QUOTE=wewt!;32861644]Neighter are supposed to exist on green belts though, which shows there is indeed bias in the law[/QUOTE] Bias in favour of developments that obey the law and pay taxes. Seems fairly reasonable to me.
Another interesting thing on the wiki is that in 2008, Essex County themselves built a community centre on Dale Farm - without planning permission.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32861656]Bias in favour of developments that obey the law and pay taxes. Seems fairly reasonable to me.[/QUOTE] The fact that they're giving them money does [I]not[/I] make it okay to bend land property rules, especially if you're going to use them against someone later
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861630]magical thing called the internet grants me access to information from around the world! how do you know I'm in Canada if you live in the UK[/QUOTE] actually you are just straying off topic now, this is an argument about violent "travelers" not leaving a land they don't own you make it out to be the final solution of a poor endangered race of victimised people, whose lives are a daily struggle because people are predudice of them for no reason on earth, apart from they fact they steal shit and squatter, and leave massive crime rises in every town and city they live in you have nothing left to say, you cant make any come backs, you have done a fine job in making yourself out to be a retard. you've done enough now get out
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32861696]Another interesting thing on the wiki is that in 2008, Essex County themselves built a community centre on Dale Farm - without planning permission.[/QUOTE] yes but they give the country loadsaemone so now it's okay
[QUOTE=XanaToast.;32861708]actually you are just straying off topic now, this is an argument about violent "travelers" not leaving a land they don't own you make it out to be the final solution of a poor endangered race of victimised people, whose lives are a daily struggle because people are predudice of them for no reason on earth, apart from they fact they steal shit and squatter, and leave massive crime rises in every town and city they live in you have nothing left to say, you cant make any come backs, you have done a fine job in making yourself out to be a retard. you've done enough now get out[/QUOTE] How is answering someone's direct question "off topic"
There's plenty of legal gypsy sites, as seen on 'Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' where the sites are rented off the council - with permission
[QUOTE=wewt!;32861706]The fact that they're giving them money does [I]not[/I] make it okay to bend land property rules, especially if you're going to use them against someone later[/QUOTE] But it's not bending the rules. Green belt land isn't prohibited from being developed on. Development is just severely restricted and requires case-by-case approval.
[QUOTE=matt.ant;32861730]There's plenty of legal gypsy sites, as seen on 'Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' where the sites are rented off the council - with permission[/QUOTE] I'm going to go read about that and find some more interviews then Good news XanaToast, I'll be gone for a while so the circlejerk can resume
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