Riot police raid illegal gypsy site Dale Farm - 7 arrested, many injured
756 replies, posted
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878214][B]YES[/B], and why?
because a group of people do not collectively do things wrong.
even if every single last jew you've ever met has stabbed you in the face and fucked you in the knee it's still wrong to go "FUCK JEWS". i'm sorry that's the reality because ultimately we didn't get to the massive jew council and decide we're gonna stab you and fuck you in your knee.
just like how all those "gypsies" didn't come together and decide to fuck your hubcaps or whatever you're all pissed off about.[/QUOTE]
Buuuut they did. It's a fundamental part of not only the Romani Cultured folk's life-style, but of almost all nomadic styles.
They take because it helps them on the road. There is perfect logic behind this, and I myself understand it. So why can't you understand that people of a lifestyle that actually does tell them to take when it benefits would take when it benefits?
[QUOTE=matt.ant;32878261]That's because the schools don't teach about them, the only time my school mentioned them was in a special assembly, specifically telling us to stay away from them and to call the police if we experience trouble with them as they were camping near by[/QUOTE]
now actually, [I]THAT'S[/I] bad
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;32878298]genuine apology, i confused you with some other dude[/QUOTE]
That's K. I'd like this to be civilized, I ain't gonna turn around and be a dick.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32878284] I know in you're eyes they are wrong etc but what if that person had suffered such a bad experience with a particular group, that they had come within an inch of their lives (I'm getting sidetracked here, if we're going to be arguing for the sake of arguing I feel like a conversation should help cool things down)[/QUOTE]
that's something that they have to come to terms with. not on the internet. if you had such a bad experience it's only natural to have such a fear or hatred but people gotta understand it and try to deal with it because stuff like that can lead to more horrible things and we shouldn't want that.
that's the whole problem with the serbian and albanian situation.
[QUOTE=Cone;32878317]Buuuut they did. It's a fundamental part of not only the Romani Cultured folk's life-style, but of almost all nomadic styles.[/QUOTE]
i really doubt that you can provide us with anything to substantiate either claim in this sentence
[QUOTE=Cone;32878317]Buuuut they did.[/QUOTE]
no they didn't. they do not collectively steal and it isn't in their culture as you claim it to be. when they're stealing it's because they live in poverty and that's something all people do regardless of culture. culture doesn't make a person, that's nationalism talking.
[QUOTE=Cone;32878317]Buuuut they did. It's a fundamental part of not only the Romani Cultured folk's life-style, but of almost all nomadic styles.[/QUOTE]
It's not so much a fundamental part of them as much as opportunistic
[QUOTE=matt.ant;32858942]They illegally set up camp on someone else's land[/QUOTE]
In America, if it goes unnoticed for 20 years and "improves" the land then it becomes theirs. It's some retarded law to justify what we did to the indians years ago. I believe it is called adverse possession.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878359]no they didn't. they do not collectively steal and it isn't in their culture as you claim it to be. when they're stealing it's because they live in poverty and that's something all people do regardless of culture. culture doesn't make a person, that's nationalism talking.[/QUOTE]
They don't live in poverty what so ever, since they don't pay taxes they generally have quite a lot. Also culture very much makes a person.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878334]that's something that they have to come to terms with. not on the internet. if you had such a bad experience it's only natural to have such a fear or hatred but people gotta understand it and try to deal with it because stuff like that can lead to more horrible things and we shouldn't want that.
that's the whole problem with the serbian and albanian situation.[/QUOTE]
No yeah I agree. But also I don't think you can really blame someone for not being able to come to terms with it if it's that bad, such as no matter how hard you try someone might not be able to see the error of their thoughts and that's something you have to accept is that sometimes someone can be set on something bad like that, and you may hate them for it but there's nothing you can do.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878359]no they didn't. they do not collectively steal and it isn't in their culture as you claim it to be. when they're stealing it's because they live in poverty and that's something all people do regardless of culture. culture doesn't make a person, that's nationalism talking.[/QUOTE]
And that's what I'm saying. People naturally do that. I was pointing that out because people flipped out and called racism just because they were Gypsies.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878285]that's bloody awful.[/QUOTE]
Well they were shooting kids with air rifles and the police were in the process of trying to remove them
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32878381]They don't live in poverty what so ever, since they don't pay taxes they generally have quite a lot.[/QUOTE]
you big-mouth liar.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cone;32878393]And that's what I'm saying. People naturally do that. I was pointing that out because people flipped out and called racism just because they were Gypsies.[/QUOTE]
it doesn't matter what you call it, it's wrong. hating anyone like that just because they form a group you created in your mind is wrong. it's shitty tribal behavior. we are supposed to be civilised europeans, we're supposed to be liberals for fucks sake.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878426]you big-mouth liar.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
it doesn't matter what you call it, it's wrong. hating anyone like that just because they form a group you created in your mind is wrong. it's shitty tribal behavior. we are supposed to be civilised europeans, we're supposed to be liberals for fucks sake.[/QUOTE]
The group in dale farm (as he is talking about) some of them actually have quite a bit of money.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878359]culture doesn't make a person, that's nationalism talking.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Enculturation[/url]
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878426]you big-mouth liar.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
it doesn't matter what you call it, it's wrong. hating anyone like that just because they form a group you created in your mind is wrong. it's shitty tribal behavior. we are supposed to be civilised europeans, we're supposed to be liberals for fucks sake.[/QUOTE]
Most don't pay taxes, that is a well known fact
[QUOTE=icemaz;32878472]The group in dale farm (as he is talking about) some of them actually have quite a bit of money.[/QUOTE]
prove it i wanna actually see this
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32878492]Most don't pay taxes, that is a well known fact[/QUOTE]
not paying tax doesn't mean you don't live in poverty, come on now
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878521]prove it i wanna actually see this
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
not paying tax doesn't mean you don't live in poverty, come on now[/QUOTE]
Wheres your proof that they're poor and misunderstood?
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;32878484][url]https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Enculturation[/url][/QUOTE]
culture doesn't make every single person the same way, not even close.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878521]prove it i wanna actually see this
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
not paying tax doesn't mean you don't live in poverty, come on now[/QUOTE]
But not paying off at least a 1/5th of your income to the government sure does make a difference. They deal in cash, they get trade scrap metal and anything they can 'find', they really do have lots of money..
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878545]culture doesn't make every single person the same way, not even close.[/QUOTE]
However it can create trends in communities.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878521]
not paying tax doesn't mean you don't live in poverty, come on now[/QUOTE]
They are not in poverty, the reason they steal is because it's easier than trying to hold down a job since they're usually on the move.
They can be quite wealthy, no tax, no mortgage, no bills
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878545]culture doesn't make every single person the same way, not even close.[/QUOTE]
Nor is it something you can handwave away when it comes to discussing culturally transmitted behavior.
What are you even arguing right now, anyway?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32878539]Wheres your proof that they're poor and misunderstood?[/QUOTE]
17.1% of UK people are in poverty before housing costs so it isn't farfetched by any means.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;32878604]Nor is it something you can handwave away when it comes to discussing culturally transmitted behavior.[/QUOTE]
no-one's hand-waved anything, we were talking about attributing stealing to all gypsies.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878616]17.1% of UK people are in poverty before housing costs so it isn't farfetched by any means.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
no-one's hand-waved anything, we were talking about attributing stealing to all gypsies.[/QUOTE]
But travellers don't have houses so housing prices aren't a problem for them.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878616]17.1% of UK people are in poverty before housing costs so it isn't farfetched by any means[/QUOTE]
so how do this prove the travelers have no money?
Equally you could say that 82.9% of people dont live in poverty.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878616]
no-one's hand-waved anything, we were talking about attributing stealing to all gypsies.[/QUOTE]
No one is arguing that every single traveller ever is a thief, however it is most certainly a trend in their communities.
well looking at the dale-farm case, considering they were claiming Human rights abuse when they'd clearly broken the law and then to Assault police officers when the bailiffs came to throw them out and even claim that there was an eldery woman who had trouble breathing in a caravan they later set on fire.. you can kind of tell that these people are quite deceitful, can you not?
[QUOTE=themooselord;32878658]so how do this prove the travelers have no money?
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRU0F5sa0Nw[/url]
they don't particularly look better off than other poorer brits. even without paying taxes.
good documentary, tells both sides i think.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ihazard;32878692]you can kind of tell that these people are quite deceitful, can you not?[/QUOTE]
i don't really know who is who. not everyone broke the law (dale farm had a legal side) and then not everyone assaulted the bailiffs. this is kinda what i'm talking about.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878786][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRU0F5sa0Nw[/url]
they don't particularly look better off than other poorer brits. even without paying taxes.
good documentary, tells both sides i think.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
i don't really know who is who. not everyone broke the law (dale farm had a legal side) and then not everyone assaulted the bailiffs. this is kinda what i'm talking about.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure the legal half of dale farm was left alone.
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