Riot police raid illegal gypsy site Dale Farm - 7 arrested, many injured
756 replies, posted
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878786][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRU0F5sa0Nw[/url]
they don't particularly look better off than other poorer brits. even without paying taxes.
good documentary, tells both sides i think.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
i don't really know who is who. not everyone broke the law (dale farm had a legal side) and then not everyone assaulted the bailiffs. this is kinda what i'm talking about.[/QUOTE]
They're a whole community, and as you've continuously said, Gypsies are a culture and an extremely sociable one at that, so I think that both sides are pretty well integrated and that they all supported each other in what was going on, considering how much grace the council gave them and how they completely rejected all the offers they were given (including fixed brick accommodation elsewhere) you would have thought if some were actually backing the councils decision then they would have pushed for it to be accepted..
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32878829]I'm pretty sure the legal half of dale farm was left alone.[/QUOTE]
well you can still be legal and be denied housing permission. and if the council is any big as bigoted as this thread you can assure you the legality won't matter. watch that documentary and you'll see even while being legal they'll still be forcibly evicted simply because people don't like them.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878888]well you can still be legal and be denied housing permission. and if the council is any big as bigoted as this thread you can assure you the legality won't matter. watch that documentary and you'll see even while being legal they'll still be forcibly evicted simply because people don't like them.[/QUOTE]
I would love to watch it but youtube is being a massive dick and won't load it properly, I'll give it a watch later, has to be better than big fat gypsy wedding.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32878925]I would love to watch it but youtube is being a massive dick and won't load it properly, I'll give it a watch later, has to be better than big fat gypsy wedding.[/QUOTE]
it's a proper fucking documentary. it shows how both sides are pitted up against each other. you can hate the squalor or the violence that is caused by them clashing but hating the people themselves when they aren't really different is stupid.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878888]well you can still be legal and be denied housing permission. and if the council is any big as bigoted as this thread you can assure you the legality won't matter. watch that documentary and you'll see even while being legal they'll still be forcibly evicted simply because people don't like them.[/QUOTE]
Of course you can, because you can't build on greenbelt land, which they did anyway. There's a reason people don't like them, a lot in fact.. and don't even start with that bigot shit..
[QUOTE=thisispain;32878888]well you can still be legal and be denied housing permission. and if the council is any big as bigoted as this thread you can assure you the legality won't matter. watch that documentary and you'll see even while being legal they'll still be forcibly evicted simply because people don't like them.[/QUOTE]
You seem to always try and win arguments by making yourself out to be some sort of glowing beacon of society, that you're the only true human in any form and that you're ideals are the right ones. Then you also try and win by calling everyone bigots and racists so good job man. The council to be fair gave them massive amounts of warnings all the time, to the illegal half. There is quarrel with the legal half, no in the slightest.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32878963]You seem to always try and win arguments by making yourself out to be some sort of glowing beacon of society, that you're the only true human in any form and that you're ideals are the right ones. Then you also try and win by calling everyone bigots and racists so good job man. The council to be fair gave them massive amounts of warnings all the time, to the illegal half. There is quarrel with the legal half, no in the slightest.[/QUOTE]
This. They offered them proper housing and everything and gave them so much time to leave, they also got a lot of court appeals which all came to the same conclusion, they broke the law and the council was well within the human rights act.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32878963]You seem to always try and win arguments by making yourself out to be some sort of glowing beacon of society, that you're the only true human in any form and that you're ideals are the right ones.[/QUOTE]
no that's your shit interpretation of what i'm saying. i'm not interested in winning any arguments, i'm trying to stop these stupid posts about gypsies that's been going on for way too long.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ihazard;32878951]Of course you can, because you can't build on greenbelt land, which they did anyway. There's a reason people don't like them, a lot in fact.. and don't even start with that bigot shit..[/QUOTE]
not even talking about dale farm.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32879006]no that's your shit interpretation of what i'm saying. i'm not interested in winning any arguments, i'm trying to stop these stupid posts about gypsies that's been going on for way too long.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
not even talking about dale farm.[/QUOTE]
Well the threads about Dale Farm so how about you try and get back on topic with it. In the eyes of pretty much EVERY British person in this thread you've been wrong in calling people out for the use of the word gypsy and I really think it's time to stop posting in that line of thought. I agree that people shouldn't hate on the gypsies but at the same time you still aren't understanding what several people have posted.
We've all been good here and looked through with consideration at your posts and it frankly winds me the fuck up when you turn out to be rude as fuck to everyone elses posts, skip points which you don't want to talk about and then call everyone a bigot so I really think you should stop posting.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32879006]no that's your shit interpretation of what i'm saying. i'm not interested in winning any arguments, i'm trying to stop these stupid posts about gypsies that's been going on for way too long.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
not even talking about dale farm.[/QUOTE]
Okay the whole country then, there are lots of reasons you can't just build whatever you want wherever, regardless of who you are.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32879069]Well the threads about Dale Farm so how about you try and get back on topic with it. In the eyes of pretty much EVERY British person in this thread you've been wrong in calling people out for the use of the word gypsy and I really think it's time to stop posting in that line of thought. I agree that people shouldn't hate on the gypsies but at the same time you still aren't understand what several people have posted.[/QUOTE]
i did understand it i just didn't agree with it. i don't know how you can talk about skipping posts when you didn't read what i said about the whole meaning of gypsy. i already said that was irrelevant because it really is.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32879069]We've all been good here and looked through with consideration at your posts and it frankly winds me the fuck up when you turn out to be rude as fuck to everyone elses posts, skip points which you don't want to talk about and then call everyone a bigot so I really think you should stop posting.[/QUOTE]
if you don't like my posts you don't have to read them.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ihazard;32879094]Okay the whole country then, there are lots of reasons you can't just build whatever you want wherever, regardless of who you are.[/QUOTE]
yes but if you want to legally build and you are a gypsy there's a possibility you can't because very easily the council could tell you simply "no we don't like gypsies."
that makes it very hard for these people to live in a proper place, which many of them do.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32879099]i did understand it i just didn't agree with it. i don't know how you can talk about skipping posts when you didn't read what i said about the whole meaning of gypsy. i already said that was irrelevant because it really is.
if you don't like my posts you don't have to read them.
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
yes but if you want to legally build and you are a gypsy there's a possibility you can't because very easily the council could tell you simply "no we don't like gypsies."
that makes it very hard for these people to live in a proper place, which many of them do.[/QUOTE]
You're technically not allowed to build on greenbelt full stop.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32879099]yes but if you want to legally build and you are a gypsy there's a possibility you can't because very easily the council could tell you simply "no we don't like gypsies."
that makes it very hard for these people to live in a proper place, which many of them do.[/QUOTE]
Um no. The council is not going to be like 'no we don't like gypsies' because no council would be that stupid and for them to reject a planning proposal they have to have a legal reason why they can't. A lot of Gypseys actually have solid homes on land which they've bought (usually old farm land) and in fact Gypseys are permitted to go where they like until the Council orders their evictions, it becomes illegal when they start building without permission.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32879099]i did understand it i just didn't agree with it. i don't know how you can talk about skipping posts when you didn't read what i said about the whole meaning of gypsy. i already said that was irrelevant because it really is.
if you don't like my posts you don't have to read them.[/QUOTE]
And everyone else who has already said about the meaning of how we use the word, marginally against you, you still didn't shut up about it. What I'm also trying to say is your opinion of oppression in this case is irrelevant, these were a group of people, it doesn't matter a single drop what fucking culture, race, colour, they were breaking the law. If you break the law, you should face the repercussions of such. The Legal side of Dale Farm is not being touched, the illegal side has been moved on, all within the law and everything. You have no basis for an argument here in this thread about Dale Farm at all. If I was to go to the land that they were on and build a house, I would've been moved on. Probably a lot quicker than the travelers were because I wouldn't have kicked up a fuss.
From this point on I'm going to stop looking at your arguments unless they are about Dale farm. I like reading you posts but god damn stop being a rude little cunt.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32879144]You're technically not allowed to build on greenbelt full stop.[/QUOTE]
not talking about greenbelt
[QUOTE=thisispain;32879099]if you don't like my posts you don't have to read them.[/QUOTE]
Same could be said about you and your reactions.
[B]OH NO, THEY CALLED GYPSIES FOR THIEVES, BETTER CALL THEM BIGOTS INSTEAD OF IGNORING IT AND MINDING MY OWN BUSINESS[/B]
[QUOTE=Van-man;32879182]
[B]OH NO, THEY CALLED GYPSIES FOR THIEVES, BETTER CALL THEM BIGOTS INSTEAD OF IGNORING IT AND MINDING MY OWN BUSINESS[/B][/QUOTE]
well i call em as i see em
[QUOTE=thisispain;32879195]well i call em as i see em[/QUOTE]
Then apparently you should go get your eye sight checked.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32879195]well i call em as i see em[/QUOTE]
you're a bigot.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32877158]How many people do you think there are who would be considered "gypsies" that aren't Romani?[/QUOTE]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller][h2]holy shit are you actually dense[/h2][/url]
[editline]20th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;32877969]yeah i fucking got that, thanks, but it's still bullshit. i've lived in the UK for a very long time before coming to america so don't educate me on sweets please.
you do mean romani or irish traveller but you find a way to intellectualize the hatred. it's cognitive dissonance. you found a way to hate gypsies without feeling like a racist dickhead. good on you.
it's still wrong.[/QUOTE]
from what I've seen whenever you refer to once having lived in the UK you say it with a certain distaste.
perhaps your bad experiences of living in the UK are colouring your judgements of the people there.
just my two cents
[QUOTE=thisispain;32879195]well i call em as i see em[/QUOTE]
That excuse[I] can and will[/I] also be used as a excuse to call Gypsies for thieving scum of the earth.
You're digging yourself into a hole you can't get out of.
snip
[QUOTE=Van-man;32879934]You're digging yourself into a hole you can't get out of.[/QUOTE]
At least Zeke's there to keep him company.
You know, it only just hit me. But everybody claiming we are being racist due to having a dislike for gypsies for whatever reasons we may have has fell into a association fallacy. Much like Zeke enjoyed linking to fallacies when he was backpedaling, I too will link to a fallacy to, like, totally enhance my argument!
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy[/url]
Just because Romanis are gypsies does not mean all gypsies are Romani.
ITT people being confused between stereotyping and racism
I have no problem with gypsies, and when the councils decided that they no longer have any legal obligation to home their caravans, I have sympathy for them; and I'd certainly never stereotype them just because they live in a fucking caravan. But this Dale Farm has turned into a fiasco for the travelers, and they've just been complete assholes about it.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;32880673]ITT people being confused between stereotyping and racism
I have no problem with gypsies, and when the councils decided that they no longer have any legal obligation to home their caravans, I have sympathy for them; and I'd certainly never stereotype them just because they live in a fucking caravan. But this Dale Farm has turned into a fiasco for the travelers, and they've just been complete assholes about it.[/QUOTE]
But the councils don't need to accommodate Gypsies, they are allowed to stay on any council land until they receive an eviction notice, which they have a few weeks to adhere to
[QUOTE=Ihazard;32880734]But the councils don't need to accommodate Gypsies, they are allowed to stay on any council land until they receive an eviction notice, which they have a few weeks to adhere to[/QUOTE]
A few years ago councils were required by law to find small patches of land to accommodate travelers. Now they don't have to.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;32881152]A few years ago councils were required by law to find small patches of land to accommodate travelers. Now they don't have to.[/QUOTE]
I think things are starting to change against gypsies, I reckon they'll pass a law in the next few years for traveler's to pay some sort of tax, or something to combat scrap metal theft, it costs the country so much
[QUOTE=Ihazard;32881380]I think things are starting to change against gypsies, I reckon they'll pass a law in the next few years for traveler's to pay some sort of tax, or something to combat scrap metal theft, it costs the country so much[/QUOTE]
Scrap metal theft occurs everywhere, and it's not just Gypsies who do it, ya'know.
Besides, they already do pay some taxes. i.e VAT and import taxes, fuel duty, etc. I don't understand why people say not paying council tax is 'living scot free'. it's not like they walk into a shop with a TV and say "Hello, I'm a gypsie, I'd like the VAT removed off this TV please"
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860010]I live in a country where these same arguments are used against Aboriginal people on a daily basis.
"They aren't assimilating"
"They ruin communities"
"They're dirty"
"They steal"
"Can't they just be more like us?"
"We don't hate their race, just their CULTURE!"
It's fucking disgusting. So don't you dare say I don't understand what's going on here.[/QUOTE]
The difference between them and Aboriginals is that Gypsys are an [B]ethnic group not a race.[/B]
I'll repeat that, [h2]ethnic group, not a race.[/h2]
stop insulting people because they're right and you're wrong
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