• Riot police raid illegal gypsy site Dale Farm - 7 arrested, many injured
    756 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859536]So basically gypsies would be hated less if they were more like the good traditional Caucasian folk I believe this is classic racism[/QUOTE] Because only Caucasians live in houses and pay taxes as we all know. This has nothing to do with race
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859536]So basically gypsies would be hated less if they were more like the good traditional Caucasian folk I believe this is classic racism[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but are you even listening to yourself? If you want to live in a certain country, you obey the fucking laws, no matter if you're white, black, brown, green, blue or pink. Laws are there for a reason.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32859552]Because only Caucasians live in houses and pay taxes as we all know. This has nothing to do with race[/QUOTE] You realize a huge part of race/ethnicity is culture right Hating the culture is not far separated from hating the race, and has always been lumped under racism [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Stopper;32859567]I'm sorry, but are you even listening to yourself? If you want to live in a certain country, you obey the fucking laws, no matter if you're white, black, brown, green, blue or pink. Laws are there for a reason.[/QUOTE] There are no green, blue, or pink people. I don't understand why I have to keep explaining this
[QUOTE=Stopper;32859322]Or any other east-european country for that matter.[/QUOTE] Well Slovakia is the worst off I'd say. Heard that in some areas it's bordering civil unrest. [QUOTE=Zeke129;32859429]Nobody likes blacks. Try living in Detroit for a few years in particular areas. You would find out. See how racist this is[/QUOTE] I guess in the end it comes down to experience. If polled here (cz), most people would not object to having black as neighbours. It would be a bit more negative towards vietnamese but I'd say still not too bad. But if they were asked if they wanted gypsy (romani) neighbours, the absolute majority would be negative towards that. [QUOTE=Zeke129;32859571]You realize a huge part of race/ethnicity is culture right Hating the culture is not far separated from hating the race, and has always been lumped under racism [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] There are no green, blue, or pink people. I don't understand why I have to keep explaining this[/QUOTE] I'd say most people don't have anything against other cultures. The main problems start, when the minority culture begins to impose itself on the majority culture and refuses to accept certain standards of coexisting. Again why would most people not mind Vietnamese neighbours here even though their culture is fairly different and they are an immigrant wave from the past 30 years. It's because these people tend to try and mesh with the majority while staying unique. Other cultures on the other hand, even those that have been around for centuries, only oppose the majority culture and do their utmost best to not mesh in. To your point - yes gypsies would be hated less if they were more like the majority culture. If crime didn't usually soar in areas they move to, if it would be relatively quit in areas at night where they moved to and if tended to work like the instead of almost exclusively being benefit dependant. I usually want to say that I'm definitely not racist. But on self inspection I can't. I have prejudices and that is a fact. And in a sense I think the vast majority of people I know have them as well. The issue is, that a lot of those are borne out of experience, semi public knowledge and other issues. As a last thing - I think in Europe it's far more common to be racist towards a culture as opposed to being racist to individuals of said culture. It's a fairly big distinction. In the US I'd say the racism is targeting indivuals irregardless of their culture, in Europe it's more the individuals who live the standard culture that are targeted, whereas those that don't are often held up as examples. People really don't care if they celebrate their own holidays, if they have their own language or dances or whatever. Most people want to feel safe and comfortable in their homes and communities and expect their neighbors to do the same.
I like how the parts of police actions are bolded in the OP but the parts about why and what they did to ensure a safe and clean procedure are not there or bolded.
[QUOTE=Killuah;32859584]I like how the parts of police actions are bolded in the OP but the parts about why and what they did to ensure a safe and clean procedure are not there or bolded.[/QUOTE] And the fact the people they tasered can be seen on the video whacking police with pieces of wood.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859571]You realize a huge part of race/ethnicity is culture right Hating the culture is not far separated from hating the race, and has always been lumped under racism [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] There are no green, blue, or pink people. I don't understand why I have to keep explaining this[/QUOTE] That's a great way of ignoring my argument.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859571]You realize a huge part of race/ethnicity is culture right Hating the culture is not far separated from hating the race, and has always been lumped under racism[/QUOTE] Except their culture usually attributes to illegal actions like the one in the article. Hating traveller people because they are gypsie is racism, hating traveller people because they live in caravans and tend to bring crime with them is not. And as for you blacks argument, would you say it was racism to hate black gang culture, because it happens to go along with crime. Just because you hate black gang culture does not mean you hate black people.
Thank Christ that they've finally raided it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859571]You realize a huge part of race/ethnicity is culture right Hating the culture is not far separated from hating the race, and has always been lumped under racism [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] There are no green, blue, or pink people. I don't understand why I have to keep explaining this[/QUOTE] Black is a race, gypsies is not a race. You are not generalizing when you say that all members of the mafia are criminal. You are not generalizing when you say that people don't like families who live in a way that doesn't provide a defined work and living space. Of course members of ONE society are kind of suspicious about people who actively stay out of that society.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32859330]Some gypsies asked a friend of mine if they could have his scrap metal, what is it with gypsies and scrap?[/QUOTE] They're scrap banking
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859571]You realize a huge part of race/ethnicity is culture right Hating the culture is not far separated from hating the race, and has always been lumped under racism [/QUOTE] If I started living in a camper van and stopped paying taxes I'd be prosecuted as well. This isn't supposed to have ANYTHING to do with skin colour, culture or ethnicity. It's about the laws which the country imposes on you.
[QUOTE=Killuah;32859622]Black is a race, gypsies is not a race.[/QUOTE] It has long been established that gypsy is a race. Go read the wikipedia article on this. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Stopper;32859624]If I started living in a camper van and stopped paying taxes I'd be prosecuted as well.[/QUOTE] Not to even remotely the same degree. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;32859610] And as for you blacks argument, would you say it was racism to hate black gang culture, because it happens to go along with crime. Just because you hate black gang culture does not mean you hate black people.[/QUOTE] Black gang culture exists because black people are oppressed, the racism comes first
You are mixing ethnic group with race zeke.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859646]Black gang culture exists because black people are oppressed, the racism comes first[/QUOTE] Yeah but travellers aren't travellers because they're oppressed, many travellers do live normal lives like everyone else, which I don't think anyone hates, it's just the ones who live in caravans that people dislike
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859646]It has long been established that gypsy is a race. Go read the wikipedia article on this. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Not to even remotely the same degree. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Black gang culture exists because black people are oppressed, the racism comes first[/QUOTE] Are you fucking kidding me? Not only would I be prosecuted, It'd also happen a day after I set foot there.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859536]So basically gypsies would be hated less if they were more like the good traditional Caucasian folk I believe this is classic racism[/QUOTE] Are you an idiot, yes they are technically a race but they are more of a culture, and there culture is generally one which badly affects the communities they move into. They are hated by most people because of this, it's not LMAO RACISM like you cry out like a spastic whose lost his mummy but they are a group of individuals who contribute nothing and don't obey by the laws so they had this coming for a long time.
I haven't had any first hand experience with Gypsies, but I'd imagine they're not much different from homeless people. As long as they don't steal from you directly I see no reason to hate them.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859646]It has long been established that gypsy is a race. Go read the wikipedia article on this. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Not to even remotely the same degree. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Black gang culture exists because black people are oppressed, the racism comes first[/QUOTE] Are you kidding - usually without the merit of being able to claim a cultural right towards your actions you'd be evicted on grounds of trespass in moments.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32859717]Are you an idiot, yes they are technically a race but they are more of a culture, and there culture is generally one which badly affects the communities they move into. They are hated by most people because of this, it's not LMAO RACISM like you cry out like a spastic whose lost his mummy but they are a group of individuals who contribute nothing and don't obey by the laws so they had this coming for a long time.[/QUOTE] Following Zeke's train of thought, they commit crime because they're oppressed. Now, I don't know much about causality, but I think cause comes before effect, not vice versa. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=stepat201;32859741]I haven't had any first hand experience with Gypsies, but I'd imagine they're not much different from homeless people. As long as they don't steal from you directly I see no reason to hate them.[/QUOTE] Guess what. They do. And they aren't *exactly* homeless, as you can see.
Ironically Zeke is the only person in this thread who is even pointing out race.
[QUOTE=Stopper;32859747]Following Zeke's train of thought, they commit crime because they're oppressed.[/QUOTE] Yeah you actually got it mate [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=lukepker;32859763]Ironically Zeke is the only person in this thread who is even pointing out race.[/QUOTE] Gypsies are a race. This is 100% absolute fact.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859764]Yeah you actually got it mate [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Gypsies are a race. This is 100% absolute fact.[/QUOTE] Has it EVER occurred to you that they're oppressed because they commit crime and not vice versa?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859764]Yeah you actually got it mate [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Gypsies are a race. This is 100% absolute fact.[/QUOTE] Travelers actually get away with quite a lot because they live in such small communities they can all just back each other up when someone comes around asking questions, and by the fact that it took them this long to be legally allowed to move off this land completely proves your point otherwise.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859764] Gypsies are a race. This is 100% absolute fact.[/QUOTE] Why are you still arguing that.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859764]Yeah you actually got it mate [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Gypsies are a race. This is 100% absolute fact.[/QUOTE] Not 100%, they're technically an ethnicity, but then again no one hates the ethnicity, but rather the actual life style of the traveller ones.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859764]Yeah you actually got it mate [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Gypsies are a race. This is 100% absolute fact.[/QUOTE] I agree that gypsies are indeed a race. But oppression -> crime is a somewhat false train of thought. Most of all when people actually realise how much cash is annually thrown at them. Those are absolutely ludicrous amounts. While some of crime is caused by oppression, this dislike of the culture is only a follow up of said crime. Essentially a few centuries ago, you had gypsies move to an area, commit a bunch of crimes and then either move on or be driven out. A century or so ago this changed and instead they became sedentiary but without changing the lifestyle and regard to ownership. I recommend you take a look at this - [URL="http://www.google.com/search?q=chanov&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=634"]http://www.google.com/search?q=chanov&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=634 [/URL]Those buildings were quite new when they were given to them for use. It's not been that long. On top of that their own people tend to be wary of them ironically enough. I recall a few years back, there was a project on subveencing gypsy business owners in the belief that they would end up hiring their own people. The truth is, that they flatly refused to do so and instead hired either Czechs or Ukrainians.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32859330]Some gypsies asked a friend of mine if they could have his scrap metal, what is it with gypsies and scrap?[/QUOTE] crafting most likely
[QUOTE=Stopper;32859778]Has it EVER occurred to you that they're oppressed because they commit crime and not vice versa?[/QUOTE] You ever read into any basic sociology? That's not how things work. Gypsies have [b]always[/b] been oppressed by other groups of people, I don't think there was a single period in history where they weren't. Everywhere they go they get shit on. Do you really think that they're all inherent criminals that deserve to be oppressed? It's much more likely that it's the other way around, as is the case with all minority groups that the majority sees as "criminal".
[QUOTE=stepat201;32859741]I haven't had any first hand experience with Gypsies, but I'd imagine they're not much different from homeless people. As long as they don't steal from you directly I see no reason to hate them.[/QUOTE] Because homeless people don't live in their hundreds on other people's land. Even if they did buy the land it's hard enough to get planning permission as it is, on a green belt like they are it's pretty much impossible. Yet they've been living there for 10 years not paying a penny in council tax like everyone else has to - people hate them because it's not fair.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.