• Riot police raid illegal gypsy site Dale Farm - 7 arrested, many injured
    756 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859829]You ever read into any basic sociology? That's not how things work. Gypsies have [b]always[/b] been oppressed by other groups of people, I don't think there was a single period in history where they weren't. Everywhere they go they get shit on. Do you really think that they're all inherent criminals that deserve to be oppressed? It's much more likely that it's the other way around, as is the case with all minority groups that the majority sees as "criminal".[/QUOTE] I can think of a period of history when they aren't oppressed. Now.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32859854]I can think of a period of history when they aren't oppressed. Now.[/QUOTE] Are you fucking serious Go away at least the other guy is being a grownup about this [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=lukepker;32859788]Why are you still arguing that.[/QUOTE] Because it's indisputable
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859764]Yeah you actually got it mate [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Gypsies are a race. This is 100% absolute fact.[/QUOTE] Are you trolling? Even the wiki says they are an ethnic group. In fact wiki on "races" says that anthropologists stopped using the term race as changes in human specifications are gradual.
[QUOTE=stepat201;32859741]I haven't had any first hand experience with Gypsies, but I'd imagine they're not much different from homeless people. As long as they don't steal from you directly I see no reason to hate them.[/QUOTE] Like I said, xenophobia and racism they're different, the majority hates different [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;32859882]Are you trolling? Even the wiki says they are an ethnic group. In fact wiki on "races" says that anthropologists stopped using the term race as changes in human specifications are gradual.[/QUOTE] Did you seriously just change your argument to "race doesn't even exist because anthropologists don't use the word anymore so racism is impossible"
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859646]It has long been established that gypsy is a race. Go read the wikipedia article on this. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Not to even remotely the same degree. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Black gang culture exists because black people are oppressed, the racism comes first[/QUOTE] according to your logic, i can change my race from Caucasian to 'gypsy' by setting up a caravan on some randoms land. That's like calling christians etc a race
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859883]Like I said, xenophobia and racism they're different, the majority hates different [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Did you seriously just change your argument to "race doesn't even exist because anthropologists don't use the word anymore so racism is impossible"[/QUOTE] I happen to disagree with you. The majority does not hate different. They hate different that forces it's different on them. Very strong distinction. Do people hate vietnamese, ukrainians, blacks or other ethnic and racial groups because they talk different, have different food and customs? No they don't. Do they hate gypsies because the area they move into sees a dramatic crime rate increase, has an increase in attacks, tends to have have refuse show up as well as breaches of night rest. Yes they do. Because it infringes on their own rights.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859860]Are you fucking serious Go away at least the other guy is being a grownup about this [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Because it's indisputable[/QUOTE] they aren't supressed, they're breaking the law. Are you saying it's okay for them to pitch up on peoples land and shit all over it because if you move them its racist
[QUOTE=Gareth;32859904]according to your logic, i can change my race from Caucasian to 'gypsy' by setting up a caravan on some randoms land.[/QUOTE] No that would make you a caucasian guy in a caravan on some random land You weren't born to a gypsy family so you aren't a gypsy [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=wraithcat;32859916]I happen to disagree with you. The majority does not hate different. They hate different that forces it's different on them. Very strong distinction.[/QUOTE] How can gypsies be forcing anything on anyone, they're extremely isolationist
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859860]Are you fucking serious Go away at least the other guy is being a grownup about this [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Because it's indisputable[/QUOTE] I'm waiting for you to be fucking serious and wise up to the fact that there are several reasons they are hated. -They live on land which they don't own for extensive amounts of time -They cause problems for the local community -They do commit crime, and when people try and ask them questions about it because they are such a tight community you can't get anything out of them You have to fucking realise no one would have a problem if they just obeyed the law and didn't piss on the people who are currently living there. Read my two other posts and perhaps consider replying to them instead of going "OMG THEY R RACE" and claiming everyones a racist you moron.
if they're fucking up peoples property and are not there on legal terms then the riot squad and the bailiff's have every right to remove them. Just because they are supposedly oppressed doesn't give them the right to squat down on land that isn't theirs legally.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32859929]I'm waiting for you to be fucking serious and wise up to the fact that there are several reasons they are hated. -They live on land which they don't own for extensive amounts of time -They cause problems for the local community -They do commit crime, and when people try and ask them questions about it because they are such a tight community you can't get anything out of them You have to fucking realise no one would have a problem if they just obeyed the law and didn't piss on the people who are currently living there. Read my two other posts and perhaps consider replying to them instead of going "OMG THEY R RACE" and claiming everyones a racist you moron.[/QUOTE] And when are you going to realize that taking an entire race/ethnicity (don't want to make anthropologists mad!) and saying that "THEY do _____" is racism?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBeT4ptY9sY[/media] Thread theme song.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859829]You ever read into any basic sociology? That's not how things work. Gypsies have [b]always[/b] been oppressed by other groups of people, I don't think there was a single period in history where they weren't. Everywhere they go they get shit on. Do you really think that they're all inherent criminals that deserve to be oppressed? It's much more likely that it's the other way around, as is the case with all minority groups that the majority sees as "criminal".[/QUOTE] No, of course I don't think that. But I do think that most of them were opportunistic travelers, entertainers and merchants and not people you'd just hate for no reason at all. You don't just start oppressing - it's a reaction to something.
[QUOTE=Stopper;32859946]You don't just start oppressing - it's a reaction to something.[/QUOTE] History is filled with people who just "started oppressing".
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859940]And when are you going to realize that taking an entire race/ethnicity (don't want to make anthropologists mad!) and saying that "THEY do _____" is racism?[/QUOTE] It sounds like I'm generalising to much I'm sure, but you have to realise there are several groups of travelers who go around causing problems for many people, not ALL of them do but several do. Also stop saying its racism it makes you seem like an idiot.
[QUOTE=suppertime;32859942][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBeT4ptY9sY[/media] Thread theme song.[/QUOTE] Terrible choice [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0znZ-IoZtm4[/media] there [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=icemaz;32859959]It sounds like I'm generalising to much I'm sure, but you have to realise there are several groups of travelers who go around causing problems for many people, not ALL of them do but several do. Also stop saying its racism it makes you seem like an idiot.[/QUOTE] But it IS racism! It's the textbook definition of racism.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859860]Are you fucking serious Go away at least the other guy is being a grownup about this [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Because it's indisputable[/QUOTE] you live all the way in canada, a country where no gypsies have been reported, you don't know much about them, you have not met them, you have not seen the effects their behaviour causes to communitys, you have not seen the state they live in, you have not seen such backwards thinking (houses built just for us?, FUCK THAT, we'll put our horses in them, we travel you see, though we haven't moved in over 10 years) and most of all, you seem to think they have a very oppressed and almost dying culture that needs to be saved for future generations in 100 years time to look back and say the gypsies, look at their advanced ways of living, in a caravan, with scafolding and tires broken apart and used as clothes lines, having horses in houses that where built for them truely, an advanced culture, im glad we saved their ways of living, coinsidently, our nations have a massive influx of caravans on illegal spots. and an uproar of civil unrest and thefts are through the roof yeah, you have to see and experience what these people do, in the country they do it in before you say, OH NO, THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING OPPRESSED, OH NOES, LEAVE THEM ALONE, DALE FARM DOESN'T BELONG TO THE ACTUAL OWNER, IT BELONGS TO THESE PEOPLE, WHO CONTRIBUTE NOTHING AT ALL TO SOCIETY AND GET OFF SCOT FREE, AND MAKE UP EXCUSES OF POLICE BEING RACIST TO THEM AS THEY BURN THEIR OWN CARAVANS TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A FUCKNIG ATTACK yeah, fuck the police, my entire family is made of someone who has been in law enforcement at least once, they dont know fucking shit about gypsies, these people need to be allowed to squatter. screw what other people say about loosing their belongings, and needing to do something apart from live in a fucking field makes sense Zeke
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859923]No that would make you a caucasian guy in a caravan on some random land You weren't born to a gypsy family so you aren't a gypsy [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] How can gypsies be forcing anything on anyone, they're extremely isolationist[/QUOTE] They live in land that doesn't belong to them. What can you do if you're a farmer and they live in your land? You call the police. What does the police do? OP. What is the reaction? This.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32859959]It sounds like I'm generalising to much I'm sure, but you have to realise there are several groups of travelers who go around causing problems for many people, not ALL of them do but several do. Also stop saying its racism it makes you seem like an idiot.[/QUOTE] It is racism, though. It's that plain and simple, masking it doesn't make you a better person. A portion of a group does something that gets the group a bad name, and then a racial stereotype about it comes up. Obviously they have to be removed from the land, as they aren't legally on it, but the whole "I hate gypsies as they xxx" [b]is[/b] racist.
Lol at terminutter agreeing with every post zeke made.
they have broken the law. they have to get out by order of the court
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859571]You realize a huge part of race/ethnicity is culture right Hating the culture is not far separated from hating the race, and has always been lumped under racism [/QUOTE] Yeah but if the culture involves illegal activity, is it really wrong to hate it? Much like how people hate the black gangster culture in the US due to its association with violence and drug use.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859965]But it IS racism! It's the textbook definition of racism.[/QUOTE] No it isn't, I'm sorry but how is highlighting that there are members of a particular ethnicity who commit crime a Racist remark.
[QUOTE=XanaToast.;32859979]you live all the way in canada, a country where no gypsies have been reported, you don't know much about them, you have not met them, you have not seen the effects their behaviour causes to communitys, you have not seen the state they live in, you have not seen such backwards thinking (houses built just for us?, FUCK THAT, we'll put our horses in them, we travel you see, though we haven't moved in over 10 years) and most of all, you seem to think they have a very oppressed and almost dying culture that needs to be saved for future generations in 100 years time to look back and say[/QUOTE] I live in a country where these same arguments are used against Aboriginal people on a daily basis. "They aren't assimilating" "They ruin communities" "They're dirty" "They steal" "Can't they just be more like us?" "We don't hate their race, just their CULTURE!" It's fucking disgusting. So don't you dare say I don't understand what's going on here.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;32859983]It is racism, though. It's that plain and simple, masking it doesn't make you a better person. A portion of a group does something that gets the group a bad name, and then a racial stereotype about it comes up. Obviously they have to be removed from the land, as they aren't legally on it, but the whole "I hate gypsies as they xxx" [b]is[/b] racist.[/QUOTE] So what the fuck do we do then? If something is done about it, it's racism. If nothing's done about it, it's illegal. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;32860010]I live in a country where these same arguments are used against Aboriginal people on a daily basis. "They aren't assimilating" "They ruin communities" "They're dirty" "They steal" "Can't they just be more like us?" "We don't hate their race, just their CULTURE!" It's fucking disgusting. So don't you dare say I don't understand what's going on here.[/QUOTE] Difference is that you are the ones that started living in their lands. Here, it's the other way around.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;32859983]It is racism, though. It's that plain and simple, masking it doesn't make you a better person. A portion of a group does something that gets the group a bad name, and then a racial stereotype about it comes up. Obviously they have to be removed from the land, as they aren't legally on it, but the whole "I hate gypsies as they xxx" [b]is[/b] racist.[/QUOTE] But I'm not saying that, I clearly haven't said I hate all travelers and the fact I'm not even calling them by what you call them is because of how I was brought up in a nice PC way with travelers actually living quite close to me for a lot of my child hood.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32859965]Terrible choice [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0znZ-IoZtm4[/media] there [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] But it IS racism! It's the textbook definition of racism.[/QUOTE] so what? stop being such a fucking baby about racism. So what if people choose to be close-minded and generalize an entire culture due to the acts of a few in their culture, thats their opinion
They(as in those people we are talking about, the ones in the OP) are not a race. They are an ethnic group. There is some prejudice, yes, but the problem is that they (as in the people in the OP) proved them true by living on land they don't own(and that living includes using, shitting, driving, etc.), are linked to crime or covering up crimes in their community. There is no space for argueing. They had it coming.
[QUOTE=Gareth;32860040]so what? stop being such a fucking baby about racism. So what if people choose to be close-minded and generalize an entire culture due to the acts of a few in their culture, thats their opinion[/QUOTE] It stops being only THEIR opinion when they start spewing it around in public. I feel morally obligated to call out racists
Should've just given the police your gypsie tears damnit.
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