• Riot police raid illegal gypsy site Dale Farm - 7 arrested, many injured
    756 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860085]In contemporary history everyone forgets that and thinks that aboriginal people should stay on their reserves, so when they don't people feel that they're intruding and it elicits the same reaction. It's practically the same[/QUOTE] If it was the culture of a group of people to sacrifice children, would it be racist to say you hated those people? No it wouldn't
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860240]No, they owned it all, they just weren't supposed to build on one half because of anti-urbanization policies[/QUOTE] Oh and you need planning permission to build, more commonly known as the laws which every single person in this fine country of mine needs to abide by, including them. If they don't abide by the law bad things happen.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860240]No, they owned it all, they just weren't supposed to build on one half because of anti-urbanization policies[/QUOTE] No, they didn't And even if they did (They didn't), they shouldn't have been building there, and they should have heeded the warnings that came before this
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32860253]The people that were evicted were evicted from a "disputed" area that the gypsies had taken without legal process Stop cherry picking[/QUOTE] The fact is, they terrorized a camp where most people were there lawfully.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860214]Uhh They DID own this land [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Farm[/url] woah did you guys really not know this no wonder you aren't getting why I'm pissed off[/QUOTE] [quote]It is in two parts: in one, residents constructed buildings with planning permission to do so; in the other, residents were refused planning permission due to the green belt policy, and built on the site anyway.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860240]No, they owned it all, they just weren't supposed to build on one half because of anti-urbanization policies[/QUOTE] And thus what they did was illegal? Why are you pissed off at the fact people residing illegally got evicted?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860274]The fact is, they terrorized a camp where most people were there lawfully.[/QUOTE] And the people who were there lawfully aren't being asked to leave? The only reason it seems like they are being terrorised is because they also started kicking up a fuss.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860274]I just realized nobody is buying my selective reporting so now I have to use morality as an argument[/QUOTE] What, were they supposed to send them a strongly worded letter warning them that they-- OH WAIT THEY SENT THEM WARNINGS BEFOREHAND What were they supposed to do to enforce the law? God forbid they scare some people while they're enforcing the law
The majority of gypsies (specially Irish travelers) come to England because - for example - Ireland made it illegal and a criminal offence to just park your caravan on someones land or without planning permission were as in Britain it is a civil matter and involves going through the courts. They know we're soft on them so they get away with it, simple enough.
[QUOTE=icemaz;32860281]And the people who were there lawfully aren't being asked to leave? The only reason it seems like they are being terrorised is because they also started kicking up a fuss.[/QUOTE] Of course they caused a fuss, they're a close-knit community. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;32860279]And thus what they did was illegal? Why are you pissed off at the fact people residing illegally got evicted?[/QUOTE] Because an armed raid was the worst possible way to do this
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860274]The fact is, they terrorized a camp where most people were there lawfully.[/QUOTE] On 4 July, eviction notices were served on the families living on the illegal half of the Dale Farm site, giving them until the end of August 2011 to leave.[18] The eviction date was set for the week beginning 19 September 2011 and electricity supplies to the site were planned to be cut off on the morning of the eviction.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860310] Because an armed raid was the worst possible way to do this[/QUOTE] They've been given months notice to get out and they have still refused. The police knew they would get violent and sent in riot officers. I'm not seeing the problem here.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860310]Of course they caused a fuss, they're a close-knit community. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Because an armed raid was the worst possible way to do this[/QUOTE] And how would you do it? Please, do reply.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860310]Of course they caused a fuss, they're a close-knit community. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Because an armed raid was the worst possible way to do this[/QUOTE] They caused a fuss because half of them were there illegally good job. That's just asking for trouble. and they went in with armed forces (if you actually read the article) because they suspected they were stockpiling things which they could use as weapons against the police, so I think they had every god damn right to be armed and ready.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860310]Of course they caused a fuss, they're a close-knit community.[/QUOTE] So let me see if I understand this: First you tried to say this eviction was racist, but realized it wasn't and dropped that Then you tried arguing that what they were doing was perfectly legal, but it wasn't and you dropped that too Now you're trying to say it was immoral and the police caused too much commotion by enforcing the law, despite multiple warnings, but it's ok for the gypsies to have fought back with the police, THUS CAUSING A COMMOTION, because they're a tight knit group You're not doing so well today
If gypsies are a race does this make Romanians a race or the Irish?
[QUOTE=Kopimi;32860340]So let me see if I understand this: First you tried to say this eviction was racist, but realized it wasn't and dropped that Then you tried arguing that what they were doing was perfectly legal, but it wasn't and you dropped that too Now you're trying to say it was immoral and the police caused too much commotion by enforcing the law, despite multiple warnings, but it's ok for the gypsies to have fought back with the police, THUS CAUSING A COMMOTION, because they're a tight knit group You're not doing so well today[/QUOTE] It's ok for youths to attack police because they are a tight knit group of friends it's fine.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860274]The fact is, they terrorized a camp where most people were there lawfully.[/QUOTE] they came there to peacefully evict at first, but hen they built towers and blockades, and threw shit at the police, then resorted to all out violence, burnt their own homes because i dont fucking know why, burnt blockades, threw missiles, attacked shield lines with fences, planks and other weapons. if it goes on, things will get out of hand, and Dale farm will be a Bonfire. Lawfully isn't the word when you attack police, resist arrest, arson, rioting... yeah.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860310]Of course they caused a fuss, they're a close-knit community.[/QUOTE] Doesn't matter how much of a close-knit community they are. If half of their community is on that site illegally, the rest should [I]shut the fuck up and let the police do their job[/I]. It looks real good for them when all of them are kicking up a fuss and not just those there illegally, doesn't it? [QUOTE=]Because an armed raid was the worst possible way to do this[/QUOTE] An armed raid was the best way to do it, or would you rather be arguing that the gypsies were well within their rights to brick in the heads of a multitude of unprepared, un-protected and under-equipped police officers?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860310]Of course they caused a fuss, they're a close-knit community. [editline]19th October 2011[/editline] Because an armed raid was the worst possible way to do this[/QUOTE] They used tear gas and tazers. How else would you remove hundreds of barricaded people. Part of their camp was declared illegal years ago, in a democratic process. By the society they refuse to pay for or take part in but nevertheless use for their benefits.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32860329]They've been given [B]years[/B] notice to get out and they have still refused.[/QUOTE] fixed.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860214]Uhh They DID own this land [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Farm[/url] woah did you guys really not know this no wonder you aren't getting why I'm pissed off[/QUOTE] It is in two parts: in one, residents constructed buildings with planning permission to do so; in the other, residents were [B]refused planning permission due to the green belt policy, and built on the site anyway.[/B]
Here's what I'm wondering - why couldn't this camp be given an exception to Greenbelt policies? That would have allowed them to stay. [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/planning/8699775/75000-homes-to-be-built-on-Englands-Green-Belt.html]Here's a recent case of a non-gypsy community that was granted an exception[/url]. 75,000 homes granted an exception. Surely a small gypsy camp could have been extended the same liberties.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860441]Here's what I'm wondering - why couldn't this camp be given an exception to Greenbelt policies? That would have allowed them to stay. [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/planning/8699775/75000-homes-to-be-built-on-Englands-Green-Belt.html]Here's a recent case of a non-gypsy community that was granted an exception[/url]. 75,000 homes granted an exception. Surely a small gypsy camp could have been extended the same liberties.[/QUOTE] Because why should they be made an exception? If no one else can just suddenly start a camp on illegal land why should they? The houses were likely allowed due to a need for more housing, these guys however do not need a caravan camp.
Don't try that Zeke, you are retreating. Fact is they weren't and they didn't like it and so shit hit the fan because they refused to comply with the law. End. "Why weren't they granted an exception" is an entirely different unless of course you want to say that they weren't because of "racism".
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860441]Here's what I'm wondering - why couldn't this camp be given an exception to Greenbelt policies? That would have allowed them to stay. [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/planning/8699775/75000-homes-to-be-built-on-Englands-Green-Belt.html]Here's a recent case of a non-gypsy community that was granted an exception[/url]. 75,000 homes granted an exception. Surely a small gypsy camp could have been extended the same liberties.[/QUOTE] Likely encourage more people to do the same thing if the council is just going to give in like that - they're making examples of them so void off any other travelers.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32860456]Because why should they be made an exception? If no one else can just suddenly start a camp on illegal land why should they? The houses were likely allowed due to a need for more housing, these guys however do not need a caravan camp.[/QUOTE] It's their home. Exceptions have been granted for non-gypsy communities for decades. What was different here?
[media][URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZMbiCAcFs[/URL][/media] There's going to be gypsies moving into my area, in a field next to my friends house. I really don't want my area to have a traveller community, not because i'm racist, but because it brings down the general area.
[QUOTE=Killuah;32860465]Don't try that Zeke, you are retreating. Fact is they weren't and they didn't like it and so shit hit the fan because they refused to comply with the law. End. "Why weren't they granted an exception" is an entirely different unless of course you want to say that they weren't because of "racism".[/QUOTE] I'm not retreating at all. And yes, I'm saying their race could have played a part in why they were evicted. When you have 75,000 houses being granted exception but not less than 100 caravans, you have to look at some possible ulterior motives for it.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32860441]Here's what I'm wondering - why couldn't this camp be given an exception to Greenbelt policies? That would have allowed them to stay. [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/planning/8699775/75000-homes-to-be-built-on-Englands-Green-Belt.html]Here's a recent case of a non-gypsy community that was granted an exception[/url]. 75,000 homes granted an exception. Surely a small gypsy camp could have been extended the same liberties.[/QUOTE] you. contribute nothing intelligent to this conversation, you understand nothing that is going on, you think that these people are being brutalised by police and society, that opinion is stupid, just stupid, you are entitled to hold that opinion, but everyone thinks its a stupid and downright retarded opinion, and as far as society is concerned. it is these people, have broke the law, no exceptions, there is evidence, there is conflict. they have broke the law. you arguing that their advanced culture is at risk of dying out, is dumb. im just going to throw that out there. what you think, and everyone seems to agree. is utterly. Stupid. there is no gypsie "race", therefore, your argument is invalid
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