I've never really had any problems with DRM versions of games crashing or performing worse because of the DRM, but I admit that the internet connection being required is irritating. Other than that there is little noticable difference between my legit EA games and my friend up the road who pirates everything.
It is true that DRM makes legitimate copies of a game more of a pain in the ass to deal with than a cracked copy, and the publishers are doing themselves no favors by including it.
However, I think most pirates just don't want to pay $60 for a shitty game.
[QUOTE=Pteradactyl;29127290]If you pay you get the game that you payed for that developers slaved away on doing really tedious work on making a fun game for people to enjoy.
Also in the long term you are also paying for the developers to keep their jobs and a possible sequel of the game you bought.[/QUOTE]
Will you stop stirring so much shit? Piracy will never stop, there's always a way around. Stop failing to make people feel people guilty about piracy because it's just annoying and wasting space.
Some people just can't be fucked to pay
[QUOTE=Pteradactyl;29127290]If you pay you get the game that you payed for that developers slaved away on doing really tedious work on making a fun game for people to enjoy.
Also in the long term you are also paying for the developers to keep their jobs and a possible sequel of the game you bought.[/QUOTE]
Too bad they live in a world of business and to the consumer, that is (and should be) fucking meaningless.
You don't pay exorbitant prices to get treated like shit. You just don't, in no other area of life do people accept this is a valid argument. Nobody takes comfort in the fact they paid the developer if their phone is fucked up, their car is broken or their microwave gives them fucking cancer.
They have to compete against these illegal forces and give the consumer very real incentives (gifts, items, online opportunities and things of that nature, maybe even better, we'll never know since they've never had to try) or else the problem will be perpetuated forever.
You can disagree with it philosophically and you can argue the people doing it are evil mean spirited people who only want to hurt others, irrelevant if the actual problem isn't solved.
[QUOTE=Pteradactyl;29127290]If you pay you get the game that you payed for that developers slaved away on doing really tedious work on making a fun game for people to enjoy.
Also in the long term you are also paying for the developers to keep their jobs and a possible sequel of the game you bought.[/QUOTE]
Well then why ruin all your efforts by covering your product in shit? Am I supposed to feel sorry for developers because some idiot decided to add drm flavor to the perfect food?
[editline]12th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ghostwork;29127286]i don't think you know what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your totally uninformative post.
[QUOTE=s0beit;29127053]Maybe piracy wouldn't be as big of a problem if companies incentivized people to pay for their services.
As it stands there is no incentive over piracy except a plastic box and physical disk, [B]that's what perpetuates piracy[/B].
Like it or not, pirates are their competitors. I'm not going to advocate the virtues of getting something for nothing, but that's life. They need to stop punishing consumers for buying their products by bogging them down with restrictions and start giving them incentives to buy their products. Period.
The government assisting them in this only allows for them to perpetuate the system of disappointment.[/QUOTE]
I agree that they need to fuck off with drm and stop making the game worse if you buy it, but surely you can't control giving things to people who buy it without drm. Exactly the argument for drm in the first place. Maybe i'm misunderstanding what you mean by incentives.
If this is true, then why are the game companies still using DRMs? Are they trying to lose sales? No, I think there is enough money and research put into the use of DRMs to know they do deter piracy.
[editline]12th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=s0beit;29127053]Maybe piracy wouldn't be as big of a problem if companies incentivized people to pay for their services.
As it stands there is no incentive over piracy except a plastic box and physical disk, [b]that's what perpetuates piracy[/b].
Like it or not, pirates are their competitors. I'm not going to advocate the virtues of getting something for nothing, but that's life. They need to stop punishing consumers for buying their products by bogging them down with restrictions and start giving them incentives to buy their products. Period.
The government assisting them in this only allows for them to perpetuate the system of disappointment.[/QUOTE]
Say Jim buys a ball from the ball making company. Jim plays with said ball, it is fun.
Bob gives away free balls though, so next time when Jim wants a ball he buys it from him.
But you're saying that Jim does this because the company gives him no incentive to buy it legally? Why buy anything legally at all then, there is no incentive.
What I'm trying to say is, don't try and justify your piracy as some glorified mission to avoid the evil ways of the corporations. Just tell it like it is, you would rather not pay for it.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;29127746]It is true that DRM makes legitimate copies of a game more of a pain in the ass to deal with than a cracked copy, and the publishers are doing themselves no favors by including it.
However, I think most pirates just don't want to pay $60 for a shitty game.[/QUOTE]
If DRM didn't exist people would still pirate, they can just pretend that it's a valid excuse.
Exactly, DRMs came about in response to piracy that was occurring. What is the justification for those people?
[QUOTE=FlyingDog2;29123276]you could pay whatever you wanted,[B] down to a cent[/B][/QUOTE]
I'd like to raise the issue that some people could not have legitimately paid a cent either, due to lack of access to payment methods.
I bought New Vegas on launch day and wasn't able to use the key for GFWL so I had to crack it to actually be able to play it. :argh:
[editline]12th April 2011[/editline]
GFWL is possibly the worst thing ever if paired with SecuROM.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;29129900]I'd like to raise the issue that some people could not have legitimately paid a cent either, due to lack of access to payment methods.[/QUOTE]
That is a terrible argument as well. Video and computer games are GAMES. Entertainment methods. If you can't afford it, then you can't play it. Would you steal a board game because you didn't have money?
[QUOTE=Pantz76;29129951]That is a terrible argument as well. Video and computer games are GAMES. Entertainment methods. If you can't afford it, then you can't play it. Would you steal a board game because you didn't have money?[/QUOTE]
re-read what I said idiot
it's not that they don't have money, it's that they might not have a paypal account or whatever
Read the topic as "GOD believes DRM drives gamers to piracy"
Then I read it again and was slightly disappointed.
I'm a legit purchaser, but I wish I'd pirated Crysis 2 'cause there's so much DRM I can't even get into multiplayer. :(
I can't fully agree with GoG there. The Humble Bundles are DRM free and cross platform and everything one could possibly imagine that makes a gamer not pirate it and still people let themselves gift the game for 1c instead of buying it. Those people would most likely not buy a single DRM-free game for 5$ and will pirate it instead.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;29126852]While I am sure bad DRM has forced people to pirate games, I still think one of the leading reasons of game piracy is just people wanting free stuff.[/QUOTE]
Of course it is. You wouldn't download a car, right? Heh.
[editline]12th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pantz76;29129951]That is a terrible argument as well. Video and computer games are GAMES. Entertainment methods. If you can't afford it, then you can't play it. Would you steal a board game because you didn't have money?[/QUOTE]
I'd download a board game.
[QUOTE=Pantz76;29129951]That is a terrible argument as well. Video and computer games are GAMES. Entertainment methods. If you can't afford it, then you can't play it. Would you steal a board game because you didn't have money?[/QUOTE]
I've built a board game that copies and imitates real ones, I've done it for fun, its essentially a copy. So yeah, where's that land me?
[QUOTE=Bletotum;29125073]
really, if you dont mind the online part, steam is the best DRM[/QUOTE]
What online part? There's no need to be online with steam last i checked, so that's a non-issue.[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29130471]I've built a board game that copies and imitates real ones, I've done it for fun, its essentially a copy. So yeah, where's that land me?[/QUOTE]
Hell.
No. For real though. You aren't [b]selling[/b] a game in which the goal is to beat the others tribe chief senseless on a black/while chequered board and which happens to be called "tjess" do you? then i don't see a problem.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;29130005]re-read what I said idiot
it's not that they don't have money, it's that they might not have a paypal account or whatever[/QUOTE]
Woah, calm down. No need to call me names. I was just stating my viewpoints.
[QUOTE=Pteradactyl;29126867]It really annoys me when pirates actually try to justify pirating. I'd much rather prefer them to say "Pirating is wrong(morally) but I do it anyways."[/QUOTE]
I think getting face-raped with a lesser product and an outrageous pricetag is "wrong" ("stupid"). Some times, sticking to the rules gets you into bigger trouble than not. I'd much prefer if the Pirates went about it the same way as i want furries and retar- religious people to go about their stuff; Keep it to them selves. Doesn't bother me that people use common sense. The only games worth buying are those with good production values. No way in all of eternal fuck am i paying for games like Spore and MW14 when we've got companies like Naughty dog, iD, Valve, Bioware, Bethesda, Mojang, Dice and a few others delivering games that actually deserves a pat on the back and full pay. IMO paying for broken, half-assed, flat games is retarded. You have fun fiddling with your moral compass over there. I won't give two shits if MW3 is killed by piracy. I might even celebrate.
[editline]12th April 2011[/editline]
Da Merge!
[QUOTE=Pantz76;29129786]Exactly, DRMs came about in response to piracy that was occurring. What is the justification for those people?[/QUOTE]
No one's saying pracy wouldn't exist without DRM, that's just stupid. They're saying DRM can drive people to piracy when the pirates offer a superior product for free.
[QUOTE=Robber;29130343]I can't fully agree with GoG there. The Humble Bundles are DRM free and cross platform and everything one could possibly imagine that makes a gamer not pirate it and still people let themselves gift the game for 1c instead of buying it. Those people would most likely not buy a single DRM-free game for 5$ and will pirate it instead.[/QUOTE]
They're not saying all pirates were driven to it because of DRM. Lots of pirates just want free stuff. Piracy wouldn't be as much of an issue if publishers stopped criminalising legitimate consumers and started treating them like human beings.
[QUOTE=Pteradactyl;29126955]Be honest here. You don't even notice that the DRM is there unless it's that Ubisoft DRM I heard of when you have to be online at all times when you play it, but I haven't experienced that first hand, so I can't make any fair judgments on that.
And are 10 second NVIDIA THE WAY IT'S MEAN TO BE PLAYED ads that big of a deal to you?
All you are doing is listing things that aren't even the game itself, which apparently interests you enough that you should buy it.
Just admit that you are pirating because you are cheap.[/QUOTE]
that's a crock of shit and you know it
there's a very good reason i don't pirate valve games, for instance
not because i can't or because it's hard
because i fucking respect them as a company (despite what they've done to tf2 and their neglect of hl2 for the longest of times) and i believe they deserve the profit they get
companies like activision on the other hand can eat a dick with their fucking cookie cutter games
I don't know about you guys, but if games hadn't turned to absolute shit in the last few years, people wouldn't pirate them so much. I'm ready to give 100$ for a game that I know will entertain me for more than 10 hours. I'll give you an example:
Dragon Age: Origins and Modern Warfare 2
Both were released in November 2009.
Origins costs 50$, MW2 - 60$.
I have played Dragon Age: Origins for almost 90 hours. Modern Warfare 2 - barely 7 hours.
See where I'm going?
[QUOTE=Stopper;29131435]I don't know about you guys, but if games hadn't turned to absolute shit in the last few years, people wouldn't pirate them so much. I'm ready to give 100$ for a game that I know will entertain me for more than 10 hours. I'll give you an example:
Dragon Age: Origins and Modern Warfare 2
Both were released in November 2009.
Origins costs 50$, MW2 - 60$.
I have played Dragon Age: Origins for almost 90 hours. Modern Warfare 2 - barely 7 hours.
See where I'm going?[/QUOTE]
Agree with this alot. These days games become shorter and shittier. But that's mainly the mainstream games like cod and moh and homefront and all that shit.
I'd hardly call DRM malware.
Steam is a prime example of DRM with long-term incentives that give you plenty of reasons for why you should have a Steam account.
[editline]12th April 2011[/editline]
Consumers shouldn't be punished with things like release date checks or programs like SecuRom, because the consumers that paid for the software license are the ones who are supporting the software developers.
[editline]12th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bomimo;29130644]What online part? There's no need to be online with steam last i checked, so that's a non-issue.[/QUOTE]
You need to make a Steam account to use Steam.
You have to be online for that.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;29122068]They aren't to blame for this shit, we are. They make what sells.[/QUOTE]
If by 'we' you mean the casual console gamer, then yes. Its the COD/Halo/Generic FPS fans who make developers produce horrible games that we, the people who enjoy games for more than just 'guns, blood and explosions!!!11' disapprove of. I am not surprised if 90% of pirates are the people who just want to see if the game is the same generic bullshit, then they find out it is and delete it. It's not like pirating prevents the sales of a game. I really dislike most console gamers.
No demos.
[QUOTE=Pantz76;29129336]If this is true, then why are the game companies still using DRMs? Are they trying to lose sales? No, I think there is enough money and research put into the use of DRMs to know they do deter piracy.[/quote]
That's just laughable.
[QUOTE=Pantz76;29129336]Say Jim buys a ball from the ball making company. Jim plays with said ball, it is fun.
Bob gives away free balls though, [b]so next time when Jim wants a ball he buys it from him[/b].
But you're saying that Jim does this because the company gives him no incentive to buy it legally? Why buy anything legally at all then, there is no incentive.
What I'm trying to say is, don't try and justify your piracy as some glorified mission to avoid the evil ways of the corporations. Just tell it like it is, you would rather not pay for it.[/QUOTE]
There's the number one fault in your logic, first, there is no practical means to "duplicate" balls unless you mean making it yourself in which case since there is no intellectual property tied to a ball, that wouldn't be illegal either.
Second, Bob may be giving away free balls but presumably the ball is coming from the company in the first place, so either way the company isn't losing money because Bob needs to continually buy balls to continue it's operation (this also is completely legal under our system so this is a pretty retarded example).
Third, There isn't enough bobs in the world to supply the marketplace with enough balls, obviously, this isn't a problem with piracy.
Game companies just need to do what balls are doing. Make it practical to buy from them by giving the consumer incentives. Since in piracy solves the demand problem and since there's nothing reliable to tie the game to any one person they need to offer the consumer a [b]better service[/b].
Without offering a better service and by cheating the customer who is paying legally (since that's all DRM does often times, since people who play with pirated versions don't have the issues people who bought games legally do) it's a real consumer issue. They have to out-perform piracy and offer things pirates can't possibly offer. Some games do this with the bare minimum (online play often requires activation or an account with the company, such as steam) they can also do so much more.
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