• Jerry Seinfeld: Political Correctness Will Destroy Comedy
    658 replies, posted
[QUOTE=catbarf;47919608]What he's saying is that the problem with assigning modifiers rather than unique labels to those people is that you're running full-tilt into the [url=http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/12/weak-men-are-superweapons/]weak-man argument[/url], where you are implicitly [i]forcing[/i] the more reasonable people to take a side and it'll probably be against you because of the association you're making. No feminist will read a rant about 'extremist feminists' and say 'oh good thing I'm not an extremist, I'm sure he's okay with me', they're being tarred by association with the label and need to fight back. Targeting subsections of tribal groups that make for easy targets is a simple way to turn the whole tribe against you and spur conflict where none is needed. Language specific to the individuals and not their identity as part of a greater whole avoids this. If your problem is with social justice activists who aim to silence voices they find objectionable, you can talk about people who engage in that behavior specifically rather than identifying them as indicative of the larger movement. Talking about 'social justice warriors' and expecting moderate social justice activists not to respond negatively because they're not 'warriors' is like talking about 'money-grubbing Jew bankers' and expecting normal Jews not to respond negatively because they're not bankers. And it's [i]especially[/i] bad when there aren't common definitions to these terms. A rather moderate social justice-minded person could read some of the posts in the first couple of pages of this thread and wonder 'Are they talking about me? Am I this SJW they're blaming?' and feel targeted. Maybe the person had in mind someone of a more extreme ideology, but without a common definition and with the kind of definition-equivocation I talked about on the last page it's easy for people to feel like they're being targeted by a vague or implied definition. The problem with 'SJW' and 'extremist' isn't that they're identifying specific people, it's that they're identifying specific people in relation to their identity within a larger group and facilitating definition-equivocation. If you talk about the danger of 'extremist Muslims' you are much more likely to get a negative response from moderate Muslims ('not all Muslims are like that!') than if you talk about the danger of 'jihadism'. One is a nebulous concept of 'extremism' that focuses on the Muslim identity. The other is specific to the behavior and leaves no room for confusion. Don't use 'SJW' or 'extremist' as a boogeyman, figure out what issue they represent and speak to that.[/QUOTE] You can't out logic emotion. Fear is irrational, it doesn't matter what words you use or how precise you are, people will find a reason to be afraid if they are so inclined. I know plenty of christians who have no problem separating themselves from extremist christians. I consider myself liberal, but I have no problem separating myself from extremist liberals. I'm atheist, but I know I'm not what most people are referring to when they say extremist atheist. If you can't separate yourself from extremists, even when it's made clear that you aren't the one being referred to, that's your problem. I mean if you have a reason to believe that when someone says X-extremist they actually mean everyone who falls under X, then yeah of course but otherwise it's just paranoia.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;47919669]Really though, you could summarize everything you've said in this thread as an "us and them" argument. You've been going on about how you're not one of [I]those[/I] people who use non-descriptive insults in place of actual wit and intelligent argument, albeit with much more of a superiority complex about it. You're literally your own antithesis, lol.[/QUOTE] where have i actually done this? i searched but maybe my superiority complex (maybe i can be the next maddox!!) is blinding me. [editline]10th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47919666]it's just kind of a funny ironic hypocrisy that makes you hard to take seriously[/QUOTE] wow nice ad hominem
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47919632]I had a roommate who was a linguistics student and one thing I've learned is that it's astonishing how often we say one thing but actually mean something completely different. We're all so comfortable with English that we're playing fast and loose with it, and assuming everyone else knows exactly what we're trying to say. Another thing I've learned is that linguists drink a lot[/QUOTE] It gets worse once you realize the majority of arguments start because of communication problems and that actually everyone agrees way more than they think they do but simply don't realize it due to differences in language and self-identification. My controversial claim is that Gamersgate or w/e is an entirely linguistic construction caused by language confusion but I have to write a book about it first so people take me seriously. Consider what I do in this thread field research.
[QUOTE=Scum;47919699]where have i actually done this? i searched but maybe my superiority complex (maybe i can be the next maddox!!) is blinding me. [editline]10th June 2015[/editline] wow nice ad hominem[/QUOTE] if you want to contradict yourself and make the things you say hold less value because you can't even stay consistent with yourself, and you want to consider that an ad hominem, there's not much anyone can say to you at all, is there?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47919708]if you want to contradict yourself and make the things you say hold less value because you can't even stay consistent with yourself, and you want to consider that an ad hominem, there's not much anyone can say to you at all, is there?[/QUOTE] it was a joke cos i noticed heaps of people always say "welll thats just ad hominem". you can say whatever you want bb. i just dont see the contradictions. please enlighten.
[QUOTE=thisispain;47919703]It gets worse once you realize the majority of arguments start because of communication problems and that actually everyone agrees way more than they think they do but simply don't realize it due to differences in language and self-identification. My controversial claim is that Gamersgate or w/e is an entirely linguistic construction caused by language confusion but I have to write a book about it first so people take me seriously. Consider what I do in this thread field research.[/QUOTE] I would read that book
The whole SJW thing really brings out the worst in everyone it feels like sometimes. All this arguing over some attention whores etting attention by jumping on the currently popular reddit/tumblr thing and using it to well, get attention. Worst part is its working.
[QUOTE=Scum;47919659]us and them against the us and them'ers oh no[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Scum;47919638]different viewpoints will change that and a step to that is critiquing the careless use of words which serve to perpetuate tribalist viewpoints. sure there MIGHT always be an us and them mentality in general but that doesn't mean you need to join in? like it's a pretty defeatist way at looking at things to just say ah but there will always be that!! like you're not a psychic you're just being lazy. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Scum;47919614]how u think and feel is gross. theres also a difference cos asshole isn't a politically charged word.[/QUOTE] I find a lot of what you say here to be contradictory.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;47919728]I would read that book[/QUOTE] You didn't say buy but I appreciate the support.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47919737]I find a lot of what you say here to be contradictory.[/QUOTE] first and third quotes were jokes. wow jerry was right.
[QUOTE=thisispain;47919739]You didn't say buy but I appreciate the support.[/QUOTE] same I'll read it. as long as my local library stocks it :v:
i dont see the problem with my second quote i thought it was quite nice and i was proud of it
[QUOTE=Scum;47919749]first and third quotes were jokes. wow jerry was right.[/QUOTE] you're somewhat indecipherable. [editline]9th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Scum;47919753]i dont see the problem with my second quote i thought it was quite nice and i was proud of it[/QUOTE] and it's thoroughly contradicted by two non qualified jokes that don't really seem like jokes because key point, they're not funny
[QUOTE=thisispain;47919739]You didn't say buy but I appreciate the support.[/QUOTE] The fact that I think you're really fucking smart and like reading your posts makes the fact that communicating with you is like pulling teeth all the more frustrating.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47919758]you're somewhat indecipherable. [editline]9th June 2015[/editline] and it's thoroughly contradicted by two non qualified jokes that don't really seem like jokes because key point, they're not funny[/QUOTE] wow just cos they're offensive right? sorry we didn't all get to go to clown college like you
[QUOTE=Scum;47919786]wow just cos they're offensive right? sorry we didn't all get to go to clown college like you[/QUOTE] No I just expect someone to practice what they preach I think you can tell whatever horrible jokes you want But I think you also spent most of this thread making it clear people who did that were bad fucking people. Excluding yourself from that to make some sort of ironic point with your supposed jokes is just hypocrisy and bullshit.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47919789]No I just expect someone to practice what they preach I think you can tell whatever horrible jokes you want But I think you also spent most of this thread making it clear people who did that were bad fucking people. Excluding yourself from that to make some sort of ironic point with your supposed jokes is just hypocrisy and bullshit.[/QUOTE] what. no i didn't. people can make jokes. i give permission. [editline]10th June 2015[/editline] my first post was saying how much i liked eddie murphy even tho he's got fucked shit in his stand up
I just think Scum might be a little upset because I had an example [QUOTE=Scum;47919151]stop crying about your friend who got eaten by feminism it's weird[/QUOTE] I'm not crying, I'm using evidence. Maybe your arguments would make more sense if you had some. [QUOTE=Scum;47917938]that websites sick. [url]http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/12/weak-men-are-superweapons/[/url] this basically sweeps the rug under all those people that say silly shit like, "radical feminism want to neuter all men and censor all our videogames"[/QUOTE] "us and them" [QUOTE=Scum;47919614]how u think and feel is gross.[/QUOTE] Superiority complex [b]EDIT:[/b] It's hilarious because Scum is sitting here saying, "SJW's don't exist", so I explain that I personally know a self-proclaimed SJW that went insane and he's saying, "Jeez, stop whining about that example! You might as well be complaining about ISIS!"
[QUOTE=wauterboi;47919882]I just think Scum might be a little upset because I had an example I'm not crying, I'm using evidence. Maybe your arguments would win if you had some[/QUOTE] hahahaha yeah that one was totally serious and not just a hilarious joke either. cmon man. you guys need to learn some basic discernment if you're having such a hard time separating this stuff. or was that not what the example was? where's the example. just pm me it cos this isn't really worth a thread bump. and yeah, great evidence. someone you were friends with started injecting feminism and now you're not friends anymore. rad [editline]10th June 2015[/editline] that gross thing wasn't serious hahaha. and i was just complimenting that fallacy cos it disputes a lot of arguments that people use against feminism?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;47919764]The fact that I think you're really fucking smart and like reading your posts makes the fact that communicating with you is like pulling teeth all the more frustrating.[/QUOTE] My ex-girlfriend had the same issue.
[QUOTE=Scum;47919908]hahahaha yeah that one was totally serious and not just a hilarious joke either. cmon man. you guys need to learn some basic discernment if you're having such a hard time separating this stuff. or was that not what the example was? where's the example. just pm me it cos this isn't really worth a thread bump.[/QUOTE] Aren't you a part of the few that are trying to argue that "SJW" doesn't communicate effectively? Why are you complaining that we should understand immediately what you are trying to communicate right off the bat? The burden of communication is on you. [QUOTE=Scum;47919908]and yeah, great evidence. someone you were friends with started injecting feminism and now you're not friends anymore. rad[/quote] Well, it's not just "feminism". I have feminist friends - being a "feminist" isn't the problem. It's being militant, hateful, and paranoid. I refer to it often because it's the transition from relative normality to no longer tolerating most people for her own invented offenses. [editline]9th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;47919932]My ex-girlfriend had the same issue.[/QUOTE] I personally enjoy arguing with people, believe it or not, to learn about different stances. I push alternate stances or preconceptions because if I can't argue against it, I end up adopting it. That's why I wish people wouldn't be so harsh on people that just don't know certain things, have misconceptions, or have different stances.
[QUOTE=thisispain;47919932]My ex-girlfriend had the same issue.[/QUOTE] Okay, this is some top tier shit posting. Its delicious.
[QUOTE=Mkt778;47921220]I understand his point. But I don't understand why other people don't. People joke and make light of things in tense situations such as the racial issues surrounding Ferguson and have done so for many years. It is one of humanity's many ways of coping and relieving tensions. It is a fine line to walk and sometimes people step over that line and make the tensions worse. You don't know until you do, and [B]what really matters is intent[/B].[/QUOTE] While I agree with Seinfeld, you're way, way wrong. People need to stop believing that intent is what matters. Intent is only a third of the battle, and what really matters are [B]actions[/B]. It doesn't matter if you're trying to do something great - you can still cause tremendous pain while trying to do something good. That's a universal rule.
[QUOTE=Rocket;47908989]It does. Being white means you have different experiences in life than people of other races. Commenting about how racism in comedy isn't a big deal while never being affected by it is pretty dumb.[/QUOTE] So according to this logic psychologists would need to undergo depression to understand and heal depressed patients? Makes perfect sense.
[QUOTE=_Axel;47921346]So according to this logic psychologists would need to undergo depression to understand and heal depressed patients? Makes perfect sense.[/QUOTE] lmao (i'm laughing at you)
[QUOTE=_Axel;47921346]So according to this logic psychologists would need to undergo depression to understand and heal depressed patients? Makes perfect sense.[/QUOTE] no, it means that you won't experience the same difficulties minorities face.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;47921436]no, it means that you won't experience the same difficulties minorities face.[/QUOTE] I understand the concept of privilege, although I think people give it way too much credence. That's not what his post said though. He said that commenting on something you're not affected by is dumb, which is absurd.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;47919152]obviously in places where white people aren't the majority (ie china, japan) there can be systemic racism against white people.[/QUOTE] By these kind of rules and definitions you could argue that South African whites weren't racist as fuck during the apartheid era, because they were a minority. Which is obviously ridiculous.
[QUOTE=thisispain;47919210]An interpreter is unavailable at this time so I'm making due with what I got.[/QUOTE] I'm like 100% sure you're just being stubborn as all fuck and it's so obvious it hurts
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;47922425]I'm like 100% sure you're just being stubborn as all fuck and it's so obvious it hurts[/QUOTE] Thisispain? Stubborn? [I]No[/I], cant' happen
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