Jerry Seinfeld: Political Correctness Will Destroy Comedy
658 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Velocet;47909316]It's not that people are getting offended. It's the fact that these people feel they have a right to not be offended.[/QUOTE]
I don't get the syntax of the statement but alright. People are gonna type whatever they type and barely even mean it most of the time, taking it seriously isn't logical nor productive.
Just the idea that the highest-paid comedians are complaining about this is simply ridiculous, they charge too much to perform at universities and when universities decline because a) they can't afford it and b) they want something to attract as many people as possible they go and say "oh it's political correctness."
[QUOTE=Velocet;47909351]There's a difference between empathy and getting outraged on the behalf of someone else over a comedian telling jokes.[/QUOTE]
it's not being outraged on behalf of someone else tho?
like, you seem to be invalidating someone's emotional response by considering it as on behalf of someone and that's kinda fuckt
[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;47909206]Ah, "political correctness," one of the many boogymen created by ultra right-wing racists to justify being able to say racist and hateful things without fear of being called out for being racist hate mongerers.
If you say something offensive, people have a right to call you out on that. Its not some liberal conspiracy. Its free fucking speech.[/QUOTE]
Now hold up, there [I]is[/I] a legitimate issue with professors and colleges being too afraid of causing offense that they censor education to avoid upsetting feelings. In an academic context, that kind of provocation is an important part of learning, and you could argue that there is a cultural shift that is damaging.
But comedians complaining that off-color jokes aren't being tolerated anymore is essentially the same reactionary conservative position we've seen for decades, where the older generation whines that they can't be insensitive like was acceptable in their day. It's the milder, concealed-in-pretend-legitimacy version of grandpa sitting on his porch complaining that you can't call those uppity blacks 'negroes' anymore. Times have changed. Jokes that were considered acceptable are now considered off-color. The low-hanging fruit of using sex or race or gender or sexual orientation essentially as a punchline isn't quite as tolerated.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47909265]wait so acknowledging that something was happening then for a reason and something similar is happening now for different reasons is just idiocy? [/QUOTE]
That 'something' is a whole lot of hubbub over little of substance. Despite the dire warnings and doomsaying, nothing came of it. The 90s did not end with the Liberal Thought Police subsuming the public consciousness and the 2010s won't end with goose-stepping, privilege-checking students destroying free speech in the name of equality.
There's a legitimate discussion here in [I]some[/I] respects as I suggested above, but it's buried under miles and miles of thinly-veiled political sparring and ridiculous hyperbole.
[QUOTE=Velocet;47909351]There's a difference between empathy and getting outraged on the behalf of someone else over a comedian telling jokes.[/QUOTE]
Yeah like, following his logic if we can't say it's not offensive because we're white he shouldn't be able to say its [B]is[/B] offensive because he's white.
[QUOTE=Monkah;47909194]I think this thread, more than anything, proves Seinfeld's point about how toxic 'political correctness' is.[/QUOTE]
I think this thread proves that "political correctness" is just a meaningless fearmongering phrase that can be constructed to mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean and it will rile people up regardless.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47909362]Well, why not?
Humour itself, usually, relies on being offensive to someone, picking on an absurdity, an oddity, an aberration in the world and asking the audience questions about it, or making statements about it to point out how weird something is.
That can simply be called being offensive to someone. In a world where we only value a joke for how inoffensive it is, how is humour not going to be massively affected by that? Is my offense to those inoffensive jokes meaningless? Of course it is you'll say, but why is it?[/QUOTE]
Humor can be much much more than your constricted views of humor. Just saying.
Also, just to further my statement, the idea that an entire person's identity can be limited to a throwaway line being posted on Twitter or Facebook or whatever is fucking terrifying.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';47909386]Humor can be much much more than your constricted views of humor. Just saying.[/QUOTE]
Tell me a joke that doesn't base itself off of the basic premise of pointing something out and commenting on it
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;47909385]I think this thread proves that "political correctness" is just a meaningless fearmongering phrase that can be constructed to mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean and it will rile people up regardless.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree, this is why I don't understand Jerry and Chris here at all. Saying these things is usually just fucking over exaggerating EVERYTHING and causing a huge stirup of stupid shit because they are big names.
I think Jerry and Chris aren't really that smart people sometimes to be honest, funny and successful, but not very smart sometimes.
[QUOTE=.Lain;47908581]ah, Jerry Seinfeld, the head-man when it comes to comedy.[/QUOTE]
The moment when Seinfeld was actually a revolutionary show.
That moment when it was so revolutionary people started copying it like mad.
That moment when you weren't alive and old enough to know the kind of impact that show had on comedy and episodic comedy shows.
It literally invented the space where Family Guy, Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia and other shows actually became popular.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47909347]If all we go off of is connotations, we have a problem.
If all we go off of is denotations, we have a problem.
If we understand that the use of both is fine and works best, we don't have a problem.
You can substitute whatever definition you want for whatever word you want through pure use of connotations so, how exactly are they over rated?[/QUOTE]
cos people link to online dictionaries like denotations are some objective fact on the meaning of the word
[QUOTE=Velocet;47909336]I'm not overstating the power of anyone or anything, this climate of outrage culture has comedians terrified. If this happened to a smaller comedian, they'd have trouble finding venues.[/QUOTE]
Not close to the truth at all. Outrage and infamy just makes comedians more popular. George Carlin shot up to underground fame with his "Seven dirty words" gig, and that was back in the time when there was [i]federal regulation[/i] against his comedy.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';47909399]I totally agree, this is why I don't understand Jerry and Chris here at all. Saying these things is usually just fucking over exaggerating EVERYTHING and causing a huge stirup of stupid shit because they are big names.
I think Jerry and Chris aren't really that smart people sometimes to be honest, funny and successful, but not very smart sometimes.[/QUOTE]
I think you're wildly blowing their comments out of proportion.
Some of the people who get really outraged over stuff like this are so reactionary they're practically conservative.
I love it when the horseshoe effect is clearly demonstrated.
[QUOTE=Scum;47909405]cos people link to online dictionaries like denotations are some objective fact on the meaning of the word[/QUOTE]
Words do have definitions though and that's just how language works.
[QUOTE=catbarf;47909381]Now hold up, there [i]is[/i] a legitimate issue with professors and colleges being too afraid of causing offense that they censor education to avoid upsetting feelings. In an academic context, that kind of provocation is an important part of learning, and you could argue that there is a cultural shift that is damaging.
But comedians complaining that off-color jokes aren't being tolerated anymore is essentially the same reactionary conservative position we've seen for decades, where the older generation whines that they can't be insensitive like was acceptable in their day. It's the milder, concealed-in-pretend-legitimacy version of grandpa sitting on his porch complaining that you can't call those uppity blacks 'negroes' anymore.[/QUOTE]
Except your racist grandpa is upset because he can't be racist anymore, whereas comedians are upset that they don't get to say certain words because even though they're not blatantly not bigoted in the slightest, people can't take a fucking joke. They're mad because they don't want to be censored, because censorship is bullshit.
I think people throw around the phrase SJW and PC too much nowadays. I mean that goes for the words racist and racism too.
[QUOTE=catbarf;47909381]Now hold up, there [I]is[/I] a legitimate issue with professors and colleges being too afraid of causing offense that they censor education to avoid upsetting feelings. In an academic context, that kind of provocation is an important part of learning, and you could argue that there is a cultural shift that is damaging.[/QUOTE]
It's arguable but it's not endemic. UC Berkeley is a bastion of political correctness sure, but CSU Chico certainly isn't.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47909415]Words do have definitions though and that's just how language works.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but dictionaries wont always help, without extremely relevant sentences showing off examples of a word you can't fully understand all words from a dictionary alone.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47909393]Tell me a joke that doesn't base itself off of the basic premise of pointing something out and commenting on it[/QUOTE]
I am not your personal comedian.
There is visual humor, absurdity, surrealistic humor, things like that. Where basically the humor doesn't come from any sort of base of commentary, but rather the humor comes from within itself. Sometimes it's just what it is, without any implied message originally intended, but the beauty is that your brain still gives off a function that makes you laugh.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';47909399]I totally agree, this is why I don't understand Jerry and Chris here at all. Saying these things is usually just fucking over exaggerating EVERYTHING and causing a huge stirup of stupid shit because they are big names.
I think Jerry and Chris aren't really that smart people sometimes to be honest, funny and successful, but not very smart sometimes.[/QUOTE]
People inside the industry they work, talk about issues within the industry.
"Nah man, they're wrong, they're stupid. They don't know what they're talking about."
[QUOTE=Nikota;47909344]Have you listened to right wing talk radio? It's fucking hilarious.[/QUOTE]
I mean they're incapable of intentionally being funny.
[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;47909206]Ah, "political correctness," one of the many boogymen created by ultra right-wing racists to justify being able to say racist and hateful things without fear of being called out for being racist hate mongerers.
If you say something offensive, people have a right to call you out on that. Its not some liberal conspiracy. Its free fucking speech.[/QUOTE]
TIL; Jerry Seinfeld (in addition to being a Jewish comedian with left-wing political sentiments and longtime supporter of the Democratic Party) is an open sympathizer for ultra right-wing racists and hatemongerers.
He's a comedian. This is his job. He is good at his job, proven by his tremendous amount of success. So with that in mind, it's his word on political correctness ruining comedy against... who are you exactly?
And he's right. The increasing number of comedians commenting on political correctness running amok in modern society? They're right too, and the reason why they and many other people are talking about it more and more in the first place is precisely because it's becoming more and more of a problematic issue to deal with.
[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;47909206]Ah, "political correctness," one of the many boogymen created by ultra right-wing racists to justify being able to say racist and hateful things without fear of being called out for being racist hate mongerers.
If you say something offensive, people have a right to call you out on that. Its not some liberal conspiracy. [B]Its free fucking speech[/B].[/QUOTE]
which works both ways
[QUOTE=Swilly;47909440]People inside the industry they work, talk about issues within the industry.
"Nah man, they're wrong, they're stupid. They don't know what they're talking about."[/QUOTE]
When did I say they don't know what they are talking about?
I do think he's wrong in some aspects though
and I don't see a lot of other comedians who are actually good and relevant these days like Louis CK complaining all that much.
It sounds more like whining to me and applying blanket terms like "PC" over a large demographic.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47909415]Words do have definitions though and that's just how language works.[/QUOTE]
uh yuh but it's all transient mind stuff changing all the time and carries different weight and meaning in different cultural environments so when people just go,
"Ahah but you see after my perilous google search of the definition of this word i can prove thusly!"
it's like nah man that aint the thing.
plus dictionary definitions were written and published the by the higher ups. there are dictionaries that still define gypsies as thieving dirty scum snakes or something like that.
ITT: white people on the internet lecture other white people on the internet about white people
anyway, imagen if jary met tumblr?
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("ITT" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Steve Harvey;47909485]which works both ways[/QUOTE]
and it does work both ways?
person 1 is free to say what he wants
person 2 is free to criticize what person 1 says.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';47909489]When did I say they don't know what they are talking about?
I do think he's wrong in some aspects though
and I don't see a lot of other comedians who are actually good and relevant these days like Louis CK complaining all that much.
It sounds more like whining to me and applying blanket terms like "PC" over a large demographic.[/QUOTE]
Louis CK actually has in his stand up.
The entire joke about 'being a faggot' was a specific commentary on that.
[QUOTE=Diet Kane;47909492]ITT: white people on the internet lecture other white people on the internet about white people
anyway, imagen if jary met tumblr?[/QUOTE]
yeah tumblr! amirite guys!? haha!
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