• Jerry Seinfeld: Political Correctness Will Destroy Comedy
    658 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Scum;47909490]uh yuh but it's all transient mind stuff changing all the time and carries different weight and meaning in different cultural environments so when people just go, "Ahah but you see after my perilous google search of the definition of this word i can prove thusly!" it's like nah man that aint the thing. plus dictionary definitions were written and published the by the higher ups. there are dictionaries that still define gypsies as thieving dirty scum snakes or something like that.[/QUOTE] Well that's when you can actually delve into the science of language and say "well there's a difference between prescriptive and descriptive use" and get into a whole argument about how language actually works but that's for a different thread.
To be honest I think it would be more fair to say that Comedians should be afraid of the media that overreacts to fucking EVERYTHING rather than an audience getting slightly buttmad at a performance. The media is the real killer here, there have ALWAYS been audience members who get too offended at things, ALWAYS. But now as soon as even ONE fucking guy crops up you can bet your ass the news will be over it and social media will be all over it if you are famous.
[QUOTE=Scum;47909513]yeah tumblr! amirite guys!? haha![/QUOTE] yea but imagen if [I]jary[/I] met tumblr
[QUOTE=thisispain;47909514]Well that's when you can actually delve into the science of language and say "well there's a difference between prescriptive and descriptive use" and get into a whole argument about how language actually works but that's for a different thread.[/QUOTE] what do we talk about when we talk about love?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47909393]Tell me a joke that doesn't base itself off of the basic premise of pointing something out and commenting on it[/QUOTE] are you serious?
[QUOTE=thisispain;47909407]Not close to the truth at all. Outrage and infamy just makes comedians more popular. George Carlin shot up to underground fame with his "Seven dirty words" gig, and that was back in the time when there was [i]federal regulation[/i] against his comedy.[/QUOTE] I'm curious, what federal regulation?
[QUOTE=thisispain;47909407]Not close to the truth at all. Outrage and infamy just makes comedians more popular. George Carlin shot up to underground fame with his "Seven dirty words" gig, and that was back in the time when there was [i]federal regulation[/i] against his comedy.[/QUOTE] That was before your entire identity and set of beliefs and convictions were set aside and all that matters is what you said at a gig 15 years ago or what you post on Twitter. That was also before consumers became so entitled, that they'd have the press of speed dial/email contacts and threaten sponsors with a PR shit storm because of a joke. Also, that was before the time where anyone can document anything you do or say and post their editorials on personal sites or even as a "contributor" of a trusted site. There used to be a degree of professionalism and qualification required to state your opinion and get it out to hundreds of thousands of people rather than the five people around you hearing you say it. The times have changed and the people who belonged to that 1960s counterculture supporting Carlin aren't around anymore, and the ones that are largely condemn the current political climate.
I think and I feel with them that the biggest fear about political correctness, sensitivity is not so much the line and where it is but no one can define for every human being where their line is. And with the age of the internet fueling this insane drive of individualism to a point where we can't get anything done except outrage. And its easy to gather people around outrage because it gives something for them to vent and be mad at. But no one knows where the line is, no one can easily define that line and it becomes incredibly foggy when you get into professions whose job description include crossing that line.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;47909545]I'm curious, what federal regulation?[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_v._Pacifica_Foundation[/url]
[QUOTE=Swilly;47909511]Louis CK actually has in his stand up. The entire joke about 'being a faggot' was a specific commentary on that.[/QUOTE] He lectured us on that, and then I had to watch his show and get lectured on how faggot is actually a bad word. And then I had to sit through a teacher lecture me on how Louis CK made some mistakes in his reasoning, but that it was a good argument for descriptive usage of definition. And then South Park made an episode about it.
[QUOTE=thisispain;47909514]Well that's when you can actually delve into the science of language and say "well there's a difference between prescriptive and descriptive use" and get into a whole argument about how language actually works but that's for a different thread.[/QUOTE] Reminds me of how my friend's grandma would still call black people "coloreds" but she doesn't mean it in an offensive way. When she was growing up that was the polite way to say it and "black" to her was an offensive term. She doesn't want herself to say it still because her parents were so strict about it and she still feels it has negative connotation to it. Is she racist? Well if we say "the words make her racist" then yes, but I guess that means she suddenly became racist when the words changed connotation.
[QUOTE=Swilly;47909511]Louis CK actually has in his stand up. The entire joke about 'being a faggot' was a specific commentary on that.[/QUOTE] It's just a joke though, this is the problem taking every joke at face value even if it's in a way that isn't negative. I don't think he ever even talks about the audience at all in that joke, so its you whos getting that implication If you want to talk about commentary then Louis CK also treads on this in his show, where a gay person actually gives his opinion on the word Faggot and how brutal it's origins as a term for gay people comes from. But his friends all just call him a faggot again anyways. In the end it's just words, but I don't think there is any implied commentary on the state of the audiences themselves.
[QUOTE=thisispain;47909560]He lectured us on that, and then I had to watch his show and get lectured on how faggot is actually a bad word. And then I had to sit through a teacher lecture me on how Louis CK made some mistakes in his reasoning, but that it was a good argument for descriptive usage of definition. And then South Park made an episode about it.[/QUOTE] Pretty much. Humor and comedy is vapid that going after people who might offend you is really only an ego stroke but can end their career with a simple 10 second video clip.
[QUOTE=Scum;47909490]uh yuh but it's all transient mind stuff changing all the time and carries different weight and meaning in different cultural environments so when people just go, "Ahah but you see after my perilous google search of the definition of this word i can prove thusly!" it's like nah man that aint the thing. plus dictionary definitions were written and published the by the higher ups. there are dictionaries that still define gypsies as thieving dirty scum snakes or something like that.[/QUOTE] [i]gyp•sy (jip-see) n. (pl. -sies) 1. a member of a nomadic people, now mainly in Europe and the United States 2. their language, Romany 3. a person who lives like a gypsy[/i] Oxford American Dictionary, 1980 Please find me a dictionary with which defines gypsies as "thieving dirty scum snakes or something like that". This conspiracy on dictionary definitions is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Govna;47909573][i]gyp•sy (jip-see) n. (pl. -sies) 1. a member of a nomadic people, now mainly in Europe and the United States 2. their language, Romany 3. a person who lives like a gypsy[/i] Oxford American Dictionary, 1980 Please find me a dictionary with which defines gypsies as "thieving dirty scum snakes or something like that". This conspiracy on dictionary definitions is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Have you heard of colloquial definitions?
[QUOTE=Govna;47909573][i]gyp•sy (jip-see) n. (pl. -sies) 1. a member of a nomadic people, now mainly in Europe and the United States 2. their language, Romany 3. a person who lives like a gypsy[/i] Oxford American Dictionary, 1980 Please find me a dictionary with which defines gypsies as "thieving dirty scum snakes or something like that". This conspiracy on dictionary definitions is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] That's the American Dictionary, we don't use Gypsy in the same was as its used in Europe.
[QUOTE=Scum;47909538]what do we talk about when we talk about love?[/QUOTE] The best Carver story, but also a convo for a different thread.
just gonna butt in here for a second [QUOTE=Winner;47908953]are you white[/QUOTE] are you? because if we're talking about racism, I want to know what the race of the other guy is I'm white, and you?
The writer part of me has just given up in not trying to be offensive and to be honest, that's probably you're best bet as any profession that puts you out specifically into public view. You're gonna say something somewhere that's problematic to one person who will post about it online and get maybe a couple thousand views. That's about it.
[QUOTE=Govna;47909573][i]gyp•sy (jip-see) n. (pl. -sies) 1. a member of a nomadic people, now mainly in Europe and the United States 2. their language, Romany 3. a person who lives like a gypsy[/i] Oxford American Dictionary, 1980 Please find me a dictionary with which defines gypsies as "thieving dirty scum snakes or something like that". This conspiracy on dictionary definitions is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] "gypsy" itself is an antiquated slur.
There will always be an audience for non-PC comedic content, if not comedians will do it for the shock factor alone. Shock factor is/was one of the big driving factors for big name comedians like George Carlin, Louis CK, Chris Rock, etc.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47909393]Tell me a joke that doesn't base itself off of the basic premise of pointing something out and commenting on it[/QUOTE] Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;47908857]i'm not, i'm pointing out that if you have an issue with """""political correctness""""" it's probably because you just want to be able to say offensive things [b]without negative repercussions!!![/b][/QUOTE] Why is it bad to not want repercussions over something as trivial as a joke, anyway?
-snip-
[QUOTE=Velocet;47909551]That was before your entire identity and set of beliefs and convictions were set aside and all that matters is what you said at a gig 15 years ago or what you post on Twitter. That was also before consumers became so entitled, that they'd have the press of speed dial/email contacts and threaten sponsors with a PR shit storm because of a joke. Also, that was before the time where anyone can document anything you do or say and post their editorials on personal sites or even as a "contributor" of a trusted site. There used to be a degree of professionalism and qualification required to state your opinion and get it out to hundreds of thousands of people rather than the five people around you hearing you say it. The times have changed and the people who belonged to that 1960s counterculture supporting Carlin aren't around anymore, and the ones that are largely condemn the current political climate.[/QUOTE] You're referring to such extra-textual things that I don't even know who we're talking about anymore. It's certainly not the people who tell offensive comedy though. Offensive comedy has always sold, it's the most common denominator thing. David Cross used to rant about it as symbolic of American anti-intellectualism. I know comedians who are angry and frustrated because they don't want to tell offensive risque jokes, but they don't get put on because that's the kind of comedy everyone wants. University comedy venues used to be a defense against that because they usually had more women and POC involved, but now University comedy venues are also trying to keep up with the top dollar so now they're just bad.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;47909616]Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side[/QUOTE] knock knock
[QUOTE=Crash155;47909628]knock knock[/QUOTE] who's there?
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;47909632]who's there?[/QUOTE] orange
[QUOTE=Crash155;47909638]orange[/QUOTE] orange who?
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;47909642]orange who?[/QUOTE] orange you glad i didn't say banana?
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