Syrian refugees in Turkey riot, attack Turkish citizens and fly their own flag at the camp.
67 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36904744]It was very dependent upon the weather, and during the 1200s, things were pretty good a lot of the time for peasantry. Famines and starvation still happened of course when harvests failed.
Stuff only started to get troublesome in the late medieval crisis, which is when massive famines and the plague arrived.
[/QUOTE]
i said lmao because you think that being non-impoverished means being able to eat meat, fruit and vegetables (which is a really dumb & bad opinion)
[QUOTE=gra;36904814]i said lmao because you think that being non-impoverished means being able to eat meat, fruit and vegetables (which is a really dumb & bad opinion)[/QUOTE]
Well they also had French pottery, and often were able to import French wine.
If a harvest was usually good, it was common for a peasant to sell off excess. (This was after tithes and all).
Plus the lord was often obliged to provide a feast at harvest and Christmas to his tenants, and quite often because the local lord held multiple lands and had to be away much of the time, his tenants were very much often left to run themselves.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;36904852]Well they also had French pottery, and often were able to import French wine.
If a harvest was usually good, it was common for a peasant to sell off excess. (This was after tithes and all).
Plus the lord was often obliged to provide a feast at harvest and Christmas to his tenants, and quite often because the local lord held multiple lands and had to be away much of the time, his tenants were very much often left to run themselves.[/QUOTE]
i dont think you Get It
[QUOTE=gra;36904934]i dont think you Get It[/QUOTE]
Ok tell me what the definition of poverty is then.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;36888510]The French and the British sort of...tore apart the Ottoman Empire, didn't they? Out of their own self-interest?[/QUOTE]
The Ottoman Empire was a loose conglomeration of tributary states held together only by massive slave armies. It was never going to make it.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;36888178]Wasn't Islam ahead of Christian Europe for a good few hundred years?[/QUOTE]
The lions share of Islamic cultural and scientific achievement came from the conquered Persians and Christian Syriacs. Once the well ran dry there it was pretty much all over.
I'll never understand the mentality of people in the Middle East. They are all so full of aggression, killing seem to be like eating an ice cream for them, they hate everything... what the hell?
Just think for once people- refugee camps ain't exactly the most pleasant place to be. It doesn't matter that the country that is so "generous" in opening their doors doing so- it's more than likely going to be a dump unless the country that is receiving you is a well developed one. While Turkey is a fast growing economy, but it's not going to be able to absorb the people so well. The amount of people pouring over the border has been considerable, and for the most part Turkey has kept them in the same kinds of camps that they set up way back at the beginning.
The OP's article isn't the most neutral in this case. It's one of the main papers in Turkey, and the press there typically parrots the government's positions. IE, anything against the state is terrorism and bad- remember the guy getting arrested for Terrorism [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18462421]using a lemon as evidence[/url] in the same country? It's a selective reading of what happened in those camps that you actually get a lot more by reading other sources on the matter. Let us look at a more impartial story on the matter-
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/22/us-turkey-syria-refugees-idUSBRE86L0J020120722[/url]
[quote]Tensions are running high at the camps for refugees from the Syrian conflict as temperatures in southeastern Turkey climb to over 40 degrees Celsius (104 Fahrenheit).
More than 43,000 Syrian refugees are registered in neighboring Turkey. Some refugees have complained about conditions at the camps, including a lack of food.
At a container camp further south in Kilis, police used tear gas to disperse a group of refugees angry about food and water shortages who were throwing stones at police, a Turkish official said. No serious injuries were reported at the camp.[/quote]
It's not as simple as, in the OP's word " buttmad when Turkmen refugees are also brought to the camp by the Turkish government".
The "container city" looks like this.
[img]http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2012-04/69374651.jpg[/img]
Not the best of places to be in the blazing heat on the plains in that part of Turkey. Some might even still be trying to do Ramadan fasting in this heat too (Though if the inadequate amount of food they're being given is correct, they might as well be fasting since they can't eat enough). So, let us take a step back and look at the facts here.
-We are looking at a total refugee population of at the very least, 40,000. Estimates can exceed 60,000 on those the Turkish government has not registered. You have a lot of people concentrated in several small camps scattered across the border. This is not a good combination- overcrowding leads to anger. Imagine having to share an already terrible "toilet" with 10 other people, if not more. Many families living in the same tents or containers does not help either in adding to the tensions, and some people might not even be getting access to these in the first place.
-Being out in this heat doesn't help. These people have children and elderly who might even be more susceptible to the heat and can get sick from it. Worst thing for the caretaker here is to feel utterly helpless that they can't do anything to alleviate the heat.
-Food, water, and other supplies are reportedly low. This, combined with crowded camps in already poor conditions, is going to make people upset. Especially if they've had to deal with this for over a year now. If you have a bare essential like water not be able to be distributed among the people, again with the heat as it is, you are going to get problems. Especially if these are causing bad effects on the more needy elderly and children. A parent isn't going to be able to stand that humiliation for too long.
-Refugee camps ain't exactly the best place to live for a long time. Again, these people have been there for awhile- some may have been there since the very beginning when these camps opened. This doesn't do too good for your mentality- you are grappling with whether or not you'll ever be able to go back, or if you'll ever be able to start over outside the country.
The first refugee camps opened, iirc, sometime April last year. This means that this has steadily grown over the past year and the people are realizing that they are being shortchanged here. While the Turkish government and Gulf Arab states make bombastic statements and threats towards the Syrian government to stop the violence towards Syrian citizens, when they hypocritically have not given much attention to the refugee crisis developing. At the same time rolling out the carpet for weapons smuggling, housing rebels, and arming the opposition, they are not even adequately housing those who become the inevitable victims of this civil war. Not just in Turkey, but in Lebanon and Jordan as well where many refugees have been fleeing to as well with Iraq just recently opening its borders to them. In Jordan, the number is believed to have peaked past 100,000 already, and frankly Jordan is already the worst place to be for a refugee if the continuing experience of Palestinians there in the past 50 years is anything to go by! Then we have the "double" refugees- those who were in Syria as refugees already from Iraq and Palestine now are having difficulties to start over again and risk being rejected by countries that don't want to deal with them, especially in the case of Palestinian refugees.
The Turkish government has been guiding journalists to more "clean" camps to give the illusion that they are handling these well and the people are not being mistreated. Look up older stories on the refugee camps and you'll see nothing but good words as they are taken to specific camps by the government. Of course, many might be thinking of the refugee crisis in 1991 when hundreds of thousands of Kurds tried to cross the border after the failed uprisings led to military brutality, and they all got stuck on the border for sometime as the Turkish government refused to open the borders, threatening those who tried to cross with death. In front of them, death from Turkish soldiers, behind them, death from Iraqi soldiers. Let's not forget death from the weather! Pleasant- and people wonder why they got angry? Turkey really got a black eye with this, and they couldn't fix it even after they opened the border- so they might be thinking this situation is better than that one.
And yes, alongside the utter lack of supplies and housing, they were angry about the Turkmen refugees. The people are already angry, and they perceive the Turkmen might get preferential treatment. And why not- won't the Turkish camp authorities be more sympathetic to those they feel are their kinsmen than the Arabs (much less Kurds) who are in the camps? The 40,000+ have been waiting for improvements for months that they felt these newcomers were probably just going to be given right off the bat.
It's gold seeing people call for their ejection. What would you do in their position? It's just mind boggling you can make such statements about refugees while in the comfort of your home, workplace, library, on what ever device you are using. While you are in probably a quiet area with air conditioning and access to food, these people are stuck in a virtual hell hole of no fault on their own. Some may have had nothing to do with the ongoing crisis in Syria- they may have just got caught up in the tempest as the case often is. They may have left everything they have ever worked for with violence surrounding them to go to an alien country that will probably treat them like trash (again, the refugee experience!). They may have spent all their money trying to get their family out, and they have to wonder, again, when can they come back? What if they can never come back? What about their children? And you still have the nerve to condemn them from your cushy life? Try living in this kind of hellhole for even a month and see how long you'll take it lying down.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;36887176]See, this is why I will never fucking understand the Middle East or those living there. Shit like this feels like it happens all the time, and that no matter what goes right or wrong, they're still constantly killing each other.
It's a gigantic clusterfuck and if I had my way we wouldn't even bother with the region as a whole. It's a goddamn mess, it always has been, and if things continue this way, it always will be.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, those ingrates. "We're" just trying to help them! All the bombings, invasions, internal interference, it's all for their own good. All in the name of liberty, freedom and democracy! Why can't they understand that?
[QUOTE=H4wkeye;36915044]I'll never understand the mentality of people in the Middle East. They are all so full of aggression, killing seem to be like eating an ice cream for them, they hate everything... what the hell?[/QUOTE]
I'll never understand the mentality of people in the Americas. They are all so full of aggression, killing seem to be like eating an ice cream for them, they hate everything... what the hell?
I'll never understand the mentality of people in Europe. They are all so full of aggression, killing seem to be like eating an ice cream for them, they hate everything... what the hell?
I'll never understand the mentality of people in Africa. They are all so full of aggression, killing seem to be like eating an ice cream for them, they hate everything... what the hell?
I'll never understand the mentality of people in the Asia. They are all so full of aggression, killing seem to be like eating an ice cream for them, they hate everything... what the hell?
See, I can make stupid generalizations too.
Every single one of your posts has been consistently amazing and spot on MercZ, you'd make a great mod for this section.
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