Stephen Hawking: Humanity won't last longer than 1000 years on Earth.
140 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;51398568]This is such a good point and I wish more people realised this.
I get that living on Mars or whatever is a cool concept, and I'm all for space exploration and what have you, but saying "this planet is fucked, let's just go to another" is monumentally flawed thinking. Things will not be easier in space, in fact everything will be much, much harder.
Literally every scientist and expert that I've heard speak on this topic has said that we should be looking at fixing the problems with our planet rather than getting ready to jump ship. Things aren't looking great for our future here, and if we don't quit fucking around with emissions and pollution and all that shit, the average living conditions of everybody will only get worse. Our species evolved on this planet, we've adapted to live here, but now we're making the environment unsuitable for ourselves.
If we can't even maintain the status quo here, on a planet we have always existed on, with all of it's history available to us constantly, [B]why does anyone believe that we will be capable of terraforming a planet that is completely unknown in comparison to Earth[/B]. Not to mention the horrible reality that there will be entirely new forms of bacteria and other biological threats and complications with living on another planet.
It's like failing the tutorial level and wanting to go to the next, harder level, or struggling to ride a scooter, giving up and then buying a sports bike with a fuckhuge engine on it and just expecting everything to work out.[/QUOTE]
Why are you putting every human being in the same bag? Just because the people in positions of power on Earth can't be arsed to do what would be best for us in terms of environment doesn't mean nobody would be able to set up a viable colony on Mars. Who's talking about terraforming? When it comes to the survival of the human race a handful of self-sufficient colonies would be enough. Terraforming would only become necessary if population growth or more comfortable living conditions are required.
But if what we want is to protect our civilization and not be reduced to a few small pockets of population on another planet, not to mention the vast majority of people would still remain and die on Earth if shit hits the fan, then yeah, treating the environment better is also necessary. We can do both, y'know.
What's that about "entirely new forms of bacterias" by the way? As far as we currently know there isn't any life on Mars.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51398610]Why are you putting every human being in the same bag? Just because the people in positions of power on Earth can't be arsed to do what would be best for us in terms of environment doesn't mean nobody would be able to set up a viable colony on Mars. Who's talking about terraforming? When it comes to the survival of the human race a handful of self-sufficient colonies would be enough. Terraforming would only become necessary if population growth or more comfortable living conditions are required.
But if what we want is to protect our civilization and not be reduced to a few small pockets of population on another planet, not to mention the vast majority of people would still remain and die on Earth if shit hits the fan, then yeah, treating the environment better is also necessary. We can do both, y'know.
What's that about "entirely new forms of bacterias" by the way? As far as we currently know there isn't any life on Mars.[/QUOTE]
It's not just the people in positions of power though, if the majority of people cared enough we could make drastic changes to the impact we have on the environment in no time. Like with pretty much everything, apathy is the real barrier to progress.
I mentioned terraforming because that is ultimately the ideal that most people have in their heads. They're not thinking about living in a box, barely scraping by as the remainder of humanity, they're imagining comfortable lives away from the problems of Earth.
The bacteria thing was just a brief comment about the potential difficulties of living on an unknown world. It wasn't Mars specific. People got sick exploring new lands here, and expansion is always difficult, I can't imagine the number of problems we'd have doing the same on a much larger scale.
Honestly all I'm trying to say is that people seem to look at space colonisation as an "easy" alternative to facing our problems without considering how much more pragmatic it would be to make changes to our society now. This is probably because recycling and being less wasteful requires effort while saying it would be cool to live on the moon doesn't. I also agree that we could do both, but would point out that neither issue is being properly handled right now.
Earth is humanity's cradle, but we have to grow up sometime.
[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;51399323]It's not just the people in positions of power though, if the majority of people cared enough we could make drastic changes to the impact we have on the environment in no time. Like with pretty much everything, apathy is the real barrier to progress.
I mentioned terraforming because that is ultimately the ideal that most people have in their heads. They're not thinking about living in a box, barely scraping by as the remainder of humanity, they're imagining comfortable lives away from the problems of Earth.
The bacteria thing was just a brief comment about the potential difficulties of living on an unknown world. It wasn't Mars specific. People got sick exploring new lands here, and expansion is always difficult, I can't imagine the number of problems we'd have doing the same on a much larger scale.
Honestly all I'm trying to say is that people seem to look at space colonisation as an "easy" alternative to facing our problems without considering how much more pragmatic it would be to make changes to our society now. This is probably because recycling and being less wasteful requires effort while saying it would be cool to live on the moon doesn't. I also agree that we could do both, but would point out that neither issue is being properly handled right now.[/QUOTE]
But the kind of people who would organize a mission to colonize Mars wouldn't be like the "majority of people", they won't be apathetic when it's the very purpose of their mission.
People who think colonizing Mars is an easy way to save their own ass are stupid anyway. There would be very few people going there.
I can't see the video in the OP sadly but it seems while he is talking about climate change, he seems to be more worried about man made viruses and nuclear war ending our existence?
Maybe I'm tired and reading his words wrong, but isn't he saying that if we stagnated as we are right now, we'd be fine but he's theorising the escalation of climate change even further as well as manmade weapons of mass destruction and viruses
[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]
Not that it makes it any better, I'm just surprised that he seems more worried about manmade destruction than natural disasters caused by man
[QUOTE=_Axel;51397885]Why do people always talk about sentient AI as if they know how it will be like? We're the ones who will design it in the first place. How it behaves will be entirely dependent on how we build it.[/QUOTE]
I buck the curve, I think AI would be completely irrational decisions based upon the limited information they have which we give them.
Like worshipping powerplants.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51400709]I buck the curve, I think AI would be completely irrational decisions based upon the limited information they have which we give them.[/QUOTE]
So basically humans.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51400712]So basically humans.[/QUOTE]
Yeah.
[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]
We designed them, and they'll base everything off we know. Why wouldn't they act like us?
[QUOTE=Firetornado;51389392]Anyone who Says "Not my problem, Ill be dead anyway"[B] I hate you.
[/B]
You dont care about our legacy as a species???
This attitude is extremely self centered and the reason we are fucked now in the first place[/QUOTE]
Why would I give a shit about something that I will not be alive to see? You are not making much sense here.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51400881]Why would I give a shit about something that I will not be alive to see? You are not making much sense here.[/QUOTE]
"Why would I give a shit about other people when they're not me/they won't reward me in any way?"
Behold, the mentality of your typical asshole.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51400881]Why would I give a shit about something that I will not be alive to see? You are not making much sense here.[/QUOTE]
[I]
Why am I supposed to care for whatever world my grandchildren will live in? Might as well finish all of Earth's resources, I won't be alive to see later generations get wrecked by my choices![/I]
[QUOTE=_Axel;51401017]"Why would I give a shit about other people when they're not me/they won't reward me in any way?"
Behold, the mentality of your typical asshole.[/QUOTE]
I prefer the term "pragmatic" more.
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;51401344][I]
Why am I supposed to care for whatever world my grandchildren will live in? Might as well finish all of Earth's resources, I won't be alive to see later generations get wrecked by my choices![/I][/QUOTE]
Grandchildren?
Sorry, I'm not having any kids.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51401498]I prefer the term "pragmatic" more.
Grandchildren?
Sorry, I'm not having any kids.[/QUOTE]
"I'm not having kids, so fuck other people's kids"
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51401520]"I'm not having kids, so fuck other people's kids"[/QUOTE]
Not exactly. I'm just not going out of my way to save your little apes.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51401498]I prefer the term "pragmatic" more.[/QUOTE]
No matter how pragmatic you are you have to base your reasoning on values, axioms on which to base your pragmatic approach.
Some people base their pragmatism on doing what's best for the species, you just happen to base it on doing what's best for you no matter what. It's as arbitrary a choice as any and not a very defensible one at that.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51401536]Not exactly. I'm just not going out of my way to save your little apes.[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming you carelessly pollute without a second thought?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51401548]I'm assuming you carelessly pollute without a second thought?[/QUOTE]
Not always. Sometimes I pollute in minor ways, when it would be too much effort to do otherwise.
[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=_Axel;51401545]No matter how pragmatic you are you have to base your reasoning on values, axioms on which to base your pragmatic approach.
Some people base their pragmatism on doing what's best for the species, you just happen to base it on doing what's best for you no matter what. It's as arbitrary a choice as any and not a very defensible one at that.[/QUOTE]
I don't necessarily base my pragmatism on doing what's best for me, I just happen to not have much respect for majority of humans or care for solar system adventures of some walking talking shit machines in 1000 years from now.
If it gives people sense of purpose to "care for species" then let them, it's however inherently meaningless.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51400558]But the kind of people who would organize a mission to colonize Mars wouldn't be like the "majority of people", they won't be apathetic when it's the very purpose of their mission.
People who think colonizing Mars is an easy way to save their own ass are stupid anyway. There would be very few people going there.[/QUOTE]
I agree with both points, it's just that actually organising that mission in the first place will require having people care enough about space to do it. The people who worked on the Apollo program were very smart, and they cared, but would they still be in a job if the cold war wasn't a thing? Or if JFK hadn't promised that they'd put a man on the moon by the end of the decade?
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51401583]I don't necessarily base my pragmatism on doing what's best for me, I just happen to not have much respect for majority of humans or care for solar system adventures of some walking talking shit machines in 1000 years from now.
If it gives people sense of purpose to "care for species" then let them, it's however inherently meaningless.[/QUOTE]
How is that more meaningless than only caring for your immediate surroundings? Life itself is inherently meaningless if you push that rhetoric to its limits.
[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;51401779]I agree with both points, it's just that actually organising that mission in the first place will require having people care enough about space to do it. The people who worked on the Apollo program were very smart, and they cared, but would they still be in a job if the cold war wasn't a thing? Or if JFK hadn't promised that they'd put a man on the moon by the end of the decade?[/QUOTE]
Fair point, but if the environment continues to go down the shitter I think it will eventually gain some traction.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51401786]How is that more meaningless than only caring for your immediate surroundings? Life itself is inherently meaningless if you push that rhetoric to its limits.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say it's more meaningless. There is no "less" or "more" in meaningless.
I'd rather care about meaningless things that at least make me feel good.
Are you guys seriously arguing with a person who posted this
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51401536]I'm just not going out of my way to save your little apes.[/QUOTE]
? Because that reads a lot like baiting, I'm pretty sure this "child-free" kinds of rhetoric has gone out of fashion at least five years ago.
[QUOTE=gudman;51401830]Are you guys seriously arguing with a person who posted this
? Because that reads a lot like baiting, I'm pretty sure this "child-free" kinds of rhetoric has gone out of fashion at least five years ago.[/QUOTE]
I didn't even knowingly throw some "child-free" rhetoric to the table, I was just answering to the posts that were made by people with wrong assumptions about me.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51401960]I didn't even knowingly throw some "child-free" rhetoric to the table, I was just answering to the posts that were made by people with wrong assumptions about me.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's just from your country, but for the rest of the world, "your little apes" is rather offensive.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51401982]Maybe it's just from your country, but for the rest of the world, "your little apes" is rather offensive.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, maybe that was offensive but that doesn't make my points any less valid.
You can do whatever you want but I'm going to argue with you if you think that your way is the "right" way, because that's kinda what I like doing.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51402000]Sorry, maybe that was offensive but that doesn't make my points any less valid.
You can do whatever you want but I'm going to argue with you if you think that your way is the "right" way, because that's kinda what I like doing.[/QUOTE]
there's no way your arguments will be well received though as you're being incredibly blithe and arrogant and dismissive of other people and their desires
so why would anyone even remotely respect your desires
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51402000]Sorry, maybe that was offensive but that doesn't make my points any less valid.
You can do whatever you want but I'm going to argue with you if you think that your way is the "right" way, because that's kinda what I like doing.[/QUOTE]
Casual pollution and casual apathy is too widespread to be okay with every single person saying they're doing it.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51402027]there's no way your arguments will be well received though as you're being incredibly blithe and arrogant and dismissive of other people and their desires
so why would anyone even remotely respect your desires[/QUOTE]
I don't know how I am being blithe and arrogant when I'm one being called an asshole for not fitting into your "fuck yeah humanity!" mindset.
I wasn't dismissive or approving of your desires.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51402066]I don't know how I am being blithe and arrogant when I'm one being called an asshole for not fitting into your "fuck yeah humanity!" mindset.
I wasn't dismissive or approving of your desires.[/QUOTE]
how you don't see that you're being dismissive when you call children "little apes" is beyond me
I mean if I just insulted you for wanting your life to be short, pointless, and meaningless, would you feel anything?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51402063]Casual pollution and casual apathy is too widespread to be okay with every single person saying they're doing it.[/QUOTE]
Good, but I just wanted to let you know that not everyone are after the same things as you.
[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51402071]how you don't see that you're being dismissive when you call children "little apes" is beyond me[/QUOTE]
I apologized few posts above yours, but then again, it's kinda true.
That wasn't the point though, no need to nitpick on replacing "your little kids" with tongue-in-cheek remark of "your little apes", after all, it was relevant to the topic at hand.
[QUOTE]
I mean if I just insulted you for wanting your life to be short, pointless, and meaningless, would you feel anything?
[/QUOTE]
I probably wouldn't. But as I said, I hope you at least know that every one of our lives are as "short, pointless, and meaningless", objectively speaking.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51402072]Good, but I just wanted to let you know that not everyone are after the same things as you.
[/quote]
I'm fully aware. Which is why I'm out to get everyone after the same thing as me when it involves the survival of the planet, my species, and my personal future generations.
[QUOTE=RampantBS;51402072]I probably wouldn't. But as I said, I hope you at least know that every one of our lives are as "short, pointless, and meaningless", objectively speaking.[/QUOTE]
To be human is to not give a shit about the "objective meaningless" of life, else why not save space and off oneself?
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