[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;49990792]THE 2000 ELECTIONS
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER[/QUOTE]
you realise that if you're bringing up the 2000's elections, you're accepting that the people saying they're going to vote for an independent are already lost
because the strategy of "HILLARY IS MUCH CLOSER TO X THAN TRUMP" didn't work [I]because if people are voting for an independent, it suggests that they don't actually want to vote for hillary
[/I]why would this work now, when it didn't work in 2000
Even if Trump gets elected, the only way he can make swift changes is through executive orders but they still have to respect the laws.
I can't see any major thing happening without the approval of congress. Both republicans and democrats hate him, few things will get pass.
I dislike Hillary as much (or more) than most people, but I will still 100% vote for her in November if Bernie doesn't get the nomination. [i]All of you should do the same.[/i]
It's not that she's a morally upstanding president. It's not that she's "better than Trump!" It's not that I want a Democrat in office to replace the upcoming retirements/deaths of the Supreme Court judges.
The only reason is that [i]she is really not that dissimilar in position from Bernie[/i]. Take the iSideWith quiz - I got 96% Bernie and 92% Hillary. I would prefer Bernie because he's a more upstanding candidate, but if he loses, I'll forfeit 4% of my stance on issues for the second best candidate. I got 36% on Trump - the highest out of all the Republican candidates - but I'm not going to throw away 60% of my values and my stances on issues I care about just because Hillary isn't the most honest person [i]when compared to the most brutally honest and morally outstanding candidate we've had in the US in decades[/i].
Seriously. She's the second best candidate when it comes to the issues I care about - no matter how dishonest she might be.
[QUOTE=Antlerp;49990785]Sanders ought to run independently, or set up his own party entirely if he loses the nominations. Evidently there's a huge number of people who want him as president and would vote for him, who dislike Clinton and Trump considerably, whom both have very different solutions to the ones Sanders offers.[/QUOTE]
Probably best to form his own party after the election.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;49990878] Seriously. She's the second best candidate when it comes to the issues I care about - no matter how dishonest she might be.[/QUOTE]
That's incredibly naive and shortsighted to vote for her or Trump.
Sure Hillary will claim to agree with whatever issues Sanders supports whiles she's running for office and you can argue that things will continue to be business as usual, even though business as usual is slowly dragging this country down into the abyss.
There are some points in history where all people can do is to start over and press the reset button. I understand that sentiment, and if there's a chance that a candidate besides Sanders will lead us there than I don't blame people for voting that way, even though I don't think it will do any good.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;49990878]I dislike Hillary as much (or more) than most people, but I will still 100% vote for her in November if Bernie doesn't get the nomination. [I]All of you should do the same.[/I]
It's not that she's a morally upstanding president. It's not that she's "better than Trump!" It's not that I want a Democrat in office to replace the upcoming retirements/deaths of the Supreme Court judges.
The only reason is that [I]she is really not that dissimilar in position from Bernie[/I]. Take the iSideWith quiz - I got 96% Bernie and 92% Hillary. I would prefer Bernie because he's a more upstanding candidate, but if he loses, I'll forfeit 4% of my stance on issues for the second best candidate. I got 36% on Trump - the highest out of all the Republican candidates - but I'm not going to throw away 60% of my values and my stances on issues I care about just because Hillary isn't the most honest person [I]when compared to the most brutally honest and morally outstanding candidate we've had in the US in decades[/I].
Seriously. She's the second best candidate when it comes to the issues I care about - no matter how dishonest she might be.[/QUOTE]
How did you get 92% with Hillary? She's for the patriot act, for fracking, for TPP and the other trade agreements, against a 15 dollar minimum wage, against single payer healthcare, against taking money out of politics.
Like I'm more inclined to think that the iSideWith quiz is broken than that actual democrats agree with Clinton on >90% of the issues.
And even if she flipped her stance on all that, guess what she would do if she got into office? She'd just flip right back.
She would already have achieved her goal of "i am President", she doesn't seem to care about what happens to the American people or after that.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49990937]How did you get 92% with Hillary? She's for the patriot act, for fracking, for TPP and the other trade agreements, against a 15 dollar minimum wage, against single payer healthcare, against taking money out of politics.
Like I'm more inclined to think that the iSideWith quiz is broken than that actual democrats agree with Clinton on >90% of the issues.
And even if she flipped her stance on all that, guess what she would do if she got into office? She'd just flip right back.
She would already have achieved her goal of "i am President", she doesn't seem to care about what happens to the American people or after that.[/QUOTE]
People believe what Hillary is saying right now. They don't believe she'll keep saying it after she's president.
You really can't trust a single line out of Hillary's mouth.
But hey, a person under FBI investigations, who potentially (and most likely) committed crimes any other person without the last name "Clinton" would be charged for can still be president right.
I just can't see how anyone can look at the piles of shit there are on Hillary and tell me "yeah she's a good candidate"
One thing I cannot stand is Clinton's Twitter banner— and in effect— campaign slogan.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/LCh8zeM.jpg[/IMG]
If he truly buys into the lie that she is fighting "for us" over say— Bernie Sanders— then she delusional. But like all politicians, she is only [I]comparatively[/I] delusional. She still is significantly more sane and rational than Donald Trump.
Does Hillary still have a chance of getting indicted before the convention?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49990445]Honestly those bernieorbust idiots are the actual fucking problem with American politics.
If you aren't going to take politics seriously and instead vote for the shitty candidate on purpose because you are salty that your preferred candidate lost, just so that it fucks things up, then why the hell should you have the right to vote in the first place? How fucking childish are people that they vote for Trump over Clinton because Sanders lost the nomination?[/QUOTE]
They might vote bernie or trump if their vote is more about being anti-establishment rather than pro-ideology/policies. TBH with congress disliking bernie or trump either will have lots of opposition and struggle to actually do anything.
I don't know why everyone brings up her FBI investigation, it's only for the misuse of emails.
It's not as if she's a murder suspect, but a lot of you are acting like it.
[QUOTE=Chaitin;49990986]Does Hillary still a chance of getting indicted before the convention?[/QUOTE]
Hillary will never see any trouble out of it. Even if she did, Obama would pardon her anyways.
[QUOTE=Chaitin;49990986]Does Hillary still have a chance of getting indicted before the convention?[/QUOTE]
If this was a serious concern I don't think lobbyists and the DNC would be backing her this hard, if at all.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49990988]I don't know why everyone brings up her FBI investigation, it's only for the misuse of emails.
It's not as if she's a murder suspect, but a lot of you are acting like it.[/QUOTE]
That misuse of emails is classified info. Remember what happened to everyone else who leaked classified info?
[QUOTE=Oizen;49990973]
I just can't see how anyone can look at the piles of shit there are on Hillary and tell me "yeah she's a good candidate"[/QUOTE]
Policy
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49991011]Policy[/QUOTE]
The "piles of shit" on Hillary include her voting record and policies.
[QUOTE=Oizen;49990973] I just can't see how anyone can look at the piles of shit there are on Hillary and tell me "yeah she's a good candidate"[/QUOTE]
Trump has a chance of winning. That's the only reason someone with half a brain would vote for her.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49990722]
why don't you guys say "vote hillary" for fucks sake
it's like you're trying to find as many ways of saying that without actually saying it
you're trying to get people to vote for the candidate that you want in
[/QUOTE]
You are conflating individual opinions from people whos opinions differ wildly to place yourself as the the morally above it all moderate. Most of the people proclaiming Sanders is done have been Trump supporters who certainly don't want you to vote Clinton.
The last 3 points are entirely true tho and are aimed at bernie bros hopping ship to the other cult of personality.
Personally (you don't name names in your generalization but I assume I am a part if this conspiracy) I won't outright say vote Clinton because I think everyone should vote for the candidate best qualified to run the executive branch.
[editline]23rd March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49991031]The "piles of shit" on Hillary include her voting record and policies.[/QUOTE]
Okay? What about policy that people approve of?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49991061]You are conflating individual opinions from people whos opinions differ wildly to place yourself as the the morally above it all moderate. Most of the people proclaiming Sanders is done have been Trump supporters who certainly don't want you to vote Clinton.
The last 3 points are entirely true tho and are aimed at bernie bros hopping ship to the other cult of personality.
Personally (you don't name names in your generalization but I assume I am a part if this conspiracy) I won't outright say vote Clinton because I think everyone should vote for the candidate best qualified to run the executive branch.[/QUOTE]
what conspiracy are you on about
and i wasn't referring to you, who are you
i'm just seeing a trend of people who will go through the motions of eliminating every possibility other than "vote for hillary clinton" who don't just immediately go to point 1 and save the rhetoric
if we're using the 2000 election for anything, then it suggests that attempting to adjust perspectives of your candidate to appeal to these fringe voters doesn't actually work (even though the 2000 election is a bogus comparison because that was a competition between a left wing democratic and a lefter wing independent, when this is a competition between a left wing and right wing politician)
if you're admitting that bernie bros are part of a cult of personality then...why the fuck are you trying to rationally argue that they should vote for hillary, when the very reason that you're arguing with them is because they're irrational????
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49990773]Ok so I completely hate r/sandersforpresident, but this guy links every statement to external sources
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4blzpp/arizona_is_a_massive_fraud/[/url]
Apparently he got 60-40 splits in released exit polls, and the actual voting results flipped completely, which is way past the margin of error for exit polls.
Man AZ is a complete mess right now[/QUOTE]
I don't know why everyone just fucking ignored this but god damn this looks rather credible. I seriously think something fishy is going on.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;49991113]I don't know why everyone just fucking ignored this but god damn this looks rather credible. I seriously think something fishy is going on.[/QUOTE]
[quote]42-year-old Kelly Thornton, who worked as an Election Day Technician in Yavapai County voting center 5 on Tuesday, told US Uncut that roughly two thirds of voters who came to her precinct had been mistakenly identified as independent by the election software. All of those voters were subsequently forced to cast a provisional ballot.[/quote]
Could the disparity be shown with how they had to cast a provisional ballot and not a typical one
Yeah, provisional ballots will take several weeks at least to be counted.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49990937]How did you get 92% with Hillary? She's for the patriot act, for fracking, for TPP and the other trade agreements, against a 15 dollar minimum wage, against single payer healthcare, against taking money out of politics.
Like I'm more inclined to think that the iSideWith quiz is broken than that actual democrats agree with Clinton on >90% of the issues.
And even if she flipped her stance on all that, guess what she would do if she got into office? She'd just flip right back.
She would already have achieved her goal of "i am President", she doesn't seem to care about what happens to the American people or after that.[/QUOTE]
I just re-took the whole thing - 96% Sanders, 90% Jill Stein, 87% Hillary. I went through the whole list of shit I agreed with Hillary on and disagreed with her on and some of them were iffy - I don't trust her on her stance on the TPP or charging wall street execs with crimes - but overall most of my major issues were covered. But then again, Obama isn't opposed to the TPP and he never got anyone charged with crimes for the recession - does that mean I should hate him?
The only issues I absolutely did not side with Hillary on were Israel-Palestine, declaring war on ISIS, use of military drones, the PATRIOT Act, banning people on the no-fly list from buying guns, charging gun manufacturers/distributors for gun violence, fracking, the death penalty, requiring welfare recipients to work (for little to no pay), and the importance of the wage gap.
Compared to Trump, the only things we really agree on are certain aspects of foreign policy, like avoiding involvement and war-hawking in the middle east. That's my major disagreement with Hillary - but the vast majority of her domestic policies (which more directly affect my own life) and her economic policies are significantly more in line with my own interests.
I would 100% back Hillary if she were less hawkish and obsessive over gun control. Those are the two major issues that I disagree with her on - but I still support the majority of her beliefs, especially when compared to effectively every other viable candidate out there other than Bernie.
[QUOTE=phygon;49991132]Could the disparity be shown with how they had to cast a provisional ballot and not a typical one[/QUOTE]
Considering the amount of voters who got provisionals, yeah.
It's still incredibly suspicious though. Voter turnout is insanely fucking high, yet Maricopa county had 60 polling locations instead of the 200 they had last cycle. The Latino and poor vote suffered as a result since that's where most of the spots were lost from. As well as the system just magically deciding to make ~2/3rds of democrats into independents so they can't vote.
There's also the very fair question of WHY ARE THERE BARELY ANY EXIT POLLS. There's literally no reason not to release them, no personal or private info is given to exit polls.
[editline]23rd March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49991061]
Okay? What about policy that people approve of?[/QUOTE]
She seems to only be saying what's necessary to get the Democratic vote. I mean you have to think for a second. Clinton only started supporting gay marriage in 2013, when it became politically convenient.
She only started opposing TPP and NAFTA when knowledge about them became widespread and could hurt her vote.
She only started supporting driver's licenses for illegal immigrants when she felt like she was losing the hispanic vote.
The thing is that,[B] indeed,[/B] she has policies that people approve of, but how many of those positions will she maintain if she gets into office?
Huh, did not honestly expect that much of a victory for Bernie in Utah and Idaho. If only it was like that in Arizona.
Hillary Clinton is what you get when Frank Underwood and Cersei Lannister have a child.
If Bernie doesn't get the nomination I'll vote Libertarian or Green. I want someone who isn't a slave to donor interests, I don't vote for the party identity.
Lmao, so huge turnout everywhere means 70% less turnout in Maricopa, AZ.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lvTFyNg.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=EcksDee;49991272]Lmao, so huge turnout everywhere means 70% less turnout in AZ.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/lvTFyNg.png[/img][/QUOTE]
Something is fucky
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