• EU fines Microsoft $731 million for broken promise, warns others
    78 replies, posted
[QUOTE=aydin690;39822307]Nope, you're the one who's not getting the point. The point of EU anti-trust laws are to prevent big corporations with monopolies from choking out the smaller guys. The 'big bad corp' in this case has no chance of killing off the competition.[/QUOTE] No longer, this all went down back in 2009 though so you can't evaluate the environment as it is now and say "this doesn't make any sense"
[QUOTE=Ericson666;39822268]Well then how is the average Joe going to know the difference between the different browsers? It's silly to ask someone to make a choice before they know the pitfalls of each browser[/QUOTE] Exactly! A browser choice screen is far from how to solve this. If someone's really at the level of "IE is the button for the internet" a browser choice screen is going to mean nothing. There's really no easy way around it but usage stats are showing that the problem is solving itself. Since IE is in such massive decline, I really don't see the need to continue pursuing this. The worry was that they were abusing their OS monopoly to gain web market share and advantage over competitors, wasn't it? Well that's going well for them!
[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;39822417]Exactly! A browser choice screen is far from how to solve this. If someone's really at the level of "IE is the button for the internet" a browser choice screen is going to mean nothing. There's really no easy way around it but usage stats are showing that the problem is solving itself. Since IE is in such massive decline, I really don't see the need to continue pursuing this. The worry was that they were abusing their OS monopoly to gain web market share and advantage over competitors, wasn't it? Well that's going well for them![/QUOTE] The fine is because they failed to keep their promise, you can't start letting corporations off because it "doesn't matter anymore".
[QUOTE=danharibo;39822434]The fine is because they failed to keep their promise, you can't start letting corporations off because it "doesn't matter anymore".[/QUOTE] That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying the browser choice screen is retarded and, given that having one has lost all relevance anyway, they shouldn't still be being pushed to include one and should stop being pursued. You should be able to let a corporation off for not fixing something that doesn't need fixing anymore.
[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;39822482]That's not the point I'm making. I'm saying the browser choice screen is retarded and, given that having one has lost all relevance anyway, they shouldn't still be being pushed to include one and should stop being pursued. You should be able to let a corporation off for not fixing something that doesn't need fixing anymore.[/QUOTE] A corporation that's known for dickery? This ain't the first time the EU has been after Microsoft. Microsoft almost regularly needs to be reminded about the fact they can't pull the BS they do in the US anywhere else.
Browsers seems like a small thing to get fussed over, but an agreement is an agreement.
They broke an agreement, they get fined for it, simple as that. Only thing that I don't like is that they got fined what's pretty much pocket change to them but I'm guessing this is just to serve as a warning that the EU isn't going to take broken agreements lightly.
omg look out bioware ur next!
[QUOTE=Van-man;39822233]Try and view things from a dumb consumers point of view. With the screen, they at-least [B]KNOW[/B] there's alternatives. They didn't otherwise. Not everyone knows somebody who's computer savvy.[/QUOTE] When did it become a company's job to advertise the competition? Besides, it doesn't cost any money to buy a browser. They are free to use. If a consumer is ignorant of [b]freeware[/b], it's their own damned fault. If they were charging for browsers there would be a point here, but this isn't the 90s anymore.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39822801]omg look out bioware ur next![/QUOTE] wat? how is a game company related to a Operating System? [QUOTE=Zephyrs;39822821]When did it become a company's job to advertise the competition? Besides, it doesn't cost any money to buy a browser. They are free to use. If a consumer is ignorant of [B]freeware[/B], it's their own damned fault. If they were charging for browsers there would be a point here, but this isn't the 90s anymore.[/QUOTE] Microsoft firstly [B]AGREED[/B] to this, back when they [B]DID[/B] have a browser monopoly almost going on. There's [B]STILL[/B] people buying a computer and thinks IE is [I]"only way 2 internet"[/I] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case"]And given[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft"]Microsoft's[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft"]tendency to[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation"]be a dick[/URL], they shouldn't be given just a silly warning and then sent on their merry way. Microsoft is a company that needs "tough love", and if Apple grows larger, they'd most likely feel the same kind of love.
[QUOTE=Van-man;39822535]A corporation that's known for dickery? This ain't the first time the EU has been after Microsoft. Microsoft almost regularly needs to be reminded about the fact they can't pull the BS they do in the US anywhere else.[/QUOTE] It seems that a lot of the time the EU loves throwing a shitfit over absolutely nothing. I'll grant that I'd rather have an over abundance of consumer protection than too little, but it can be taken too far. I don't see why this isn't taking things too far. Seriously, who gains what here? It's freeware.
Part of me can't help but wonder where the money from the fines end up.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39822846]Seriously, who gains what here?[/QUOTE] Consumers.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;39822929]Part of me can't help but wonder where the money from the fines end up.[/QUOTE] It goes into the EU budget pot.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;39822929]Part of me can't help but wonder where the money from the fines end up.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://europa.eu/about-eu/basic-information/money/expenditure/index_en.htm[/URL] [editline]wut[/editline] [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/clock.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=aydin690;39822335][URL="http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp"]http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp[/URL][/QUOTE] So what are the chances that these changed stats are [I]because they've had the browser selection thing since they got sued for it back when [B]Vista[/B] came out?[/I]
[QUOTE=Van-man;39822838]Microsoft firstly [B]AGREED[/B] to this, back when they [B]DID[/B] have a browser monopoly almost going on.[/QUOTE] I'm aware of that, and sure follow the letter of the law, but that doesn't mean I don't think the agreement is dated, and ridiculous now. Again, what do they gain here? It's fucking freeware. [QUOTE=Van-man;39822838]There's [B]STILL[/B] people buying a computer and thinks IE is [I]"only way 2 internet"[/I][/quote] Again, what do they gain here? It's freeware. Why should it be Microsoft's problem? As long as they are not tampering with the system in such a way as to make alternatives somehow inferior, who the fuck get's hurt by distributing freeware. I'm all for shoving a barbed baseball bat up their assholes and suing them to high heaven if they make alternatives ineffective to use on their system, but to mandate that someone distribute alternatives is just absurd. Imagine that you sold mp3 players and distributed some pieces of sample music with your systems that your company had created. It's a digital item that costs nothing to preload onto your product. Then the EU comes in and says, "No! Fuck you! You have to distribute a selection of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Vilvaldi if you want to do that." How would that not be supremely idiotic? [editline]6th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ThePuska;39822998]Consumers.[/QUOTE] I don't see how consumers gain much, if anything. They already have the choice, and it [b]doesn't cost them any money one way or the other[/b].
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39823215][/QUOTE] if IE comes with windows that doesn't really make it freeware
[QUOTE=The golden;39822220]Your average-Joe user who just bought a prefab computer does not know this. He sees IE and thinks that is "how you use internet".[/QUOTE] Why does this only apply to web browsers though? Shouldn't there also be a pop-up message the first time you launch Paint or WMP telling you that you can use Paint.net and VLC instead? I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39823215]I'm aware of that, and sure follow the letter of the law, but that doesn't mean I don't think the agreement is dated, and ridiculous now. Again, what do they gain here? It's fucking freeware. Again, what do they gain here? It's freeware. [/QUOTE] It may not cost the end user any money, but that does [I]not not NOT[/I] mean that they [I]make[/I] no money off of their browsers. [url]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/12/why_is_microsoft_fighting_so_hard_over_internet_explorer.html[/url] [editline]6th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Kljunas;39823293]Why does this only apply to web browsers though? Shouldn't there also be a pop-up message the first time you launch Paint or WMP telling you that you can use Paint.net and VLC instead? I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this.[/QUOTE] Paint is, functionally, a very BASIC program, providing very BASIC needs. Same with WMP in many cases. You will quickly run into situations where those two programs don't do what you need them to do, in which case you then seek another program that does what you need it to do. I.E. Paint.Net or GIMP or VLC or DIVX or whatever.
[QUOTE=Van-man;39822535]A corporation that's known for dickery? This ain't the first time the EU has been after Microsoft. Microsoft almost regularly needs to be reminded about the fact they can't pull the BS they do in the US anywhere else.[/QUOTE] That's irrelevant. Why should their awful business practice in the past be used against them when it doesn't apply here. [QUOTE=Van-man;39822838]wat? how is a game company related to a Operating System? Microsoft firstly [B]AGREED[/B] to this, back when they [B]DID[/B] have a browser monopoly almost going on. [/quote] You're right but it's irrelevant today which is what I'm trying to say. [quote] There's [B]STILL[/B] people buying a computer and thinks IE is [I]"only way 2 internet"[/I] [/quote] Again, [QUOTE=CrumbleShake;39822417]Exactly! A browser choice screen is far from how to solve this. If someone's really at the level of "IE is the button for the internet" a browser choice screen is going to mean nothing. There's really no easy way around it but usage stats are showing that the problem is solving itself.[/QUOTE] [quote][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case"]And given[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft"]Microsoft's[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft"]tendency to[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation"]be a dick[/URL], they shouldn't be given just a silly warning and then sent on their merry way. Microsoft is a company that needs "tough love", and if Apple grows larger, they'd most likely feel the same kind of love.[/QUOTE] Cool. I still fail to see how anything else they've done should be relevant. To what I'm trying to say, at least. Especially since pretty much all of the major legal issues against them were from ten years or more ago. Sure, bully them when they've done something wrong but what I'm trying to say is that what they did wrong doesn't matter anymore and it's a waste of time to pursue. I mean, there's nothing to lose since, to Microsoft, it's basically nothing. It's just silly.
[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;39823427]Again, Cool. I still fail to see how anything else they've done should be relevant. To what I'm trying to say, at least. Especially since pretty much all of the major legal issues against them were from ten years or more ago. Sure, bully them when they've done something wrong but what I'm trying to say is that what they did wrong doesn't matter anymore and it's a waste of time to pursue. I mean, there's nothing to lose since, to Microsoft, it's basically nothing. It's just silly.[/QUOTE] Who cares if [I]Microsoft[/I] has nothing to lose, everyone else does, which is what they want.
I totally get the reason for this, and I doubt that it was something that just slipped Microsoft's mind, but I think this should be mandatory, whether you have a monopoly or not. I mean, why should should Mac users have less of a choice? Apple even put their own site as the default, something that many people don't know/don't care to change. Sure, they don't have a monopoly, and should they ever get a significant marketshare, I'm sure the EU would get on their backs, but I think it's equally unethical in both cases, even if the damage is on two totally different scales.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39823882]I totally get the reason for this, and I doubt that it was something that just slipped Microsoft's mind, but I think this should be mandatory, whether you have a monopoly or not. I mean, why should should Mac users have less of a choice? Apple even put their own site as the default, something that many people don't know/don't care to change. Sure, they don't have a monopoly, and should they ever get a significant marketshare, I'm sure the EU would get on their backs, but I think it's equally unethical in both cases, even if the damage is on two totally different scales.[/QUOTE] To what degree though? I'm sure nearly everybody would eventually get annoyed as fuck if you just install an OS and have to go through 128 dialogs asking "Which media player would you like to use" "Which email client do you want to use" "Which of these browsers?" "Which text editor would you like to be default?" "Which search engine would you like to be default?" I mean choice is good, but why just the browser?
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39822846]It seems that a lot of the time the EU loves throwing a shitfit over absolutely nothing. I'll grant that I'd rather have an over abundance of consumer protection than too little, but it can be taken too far. I don't see why this isn't taking things too far. Seriously, who gains what here? It's freeware.[/QUOTE] law = precedent if microsoft doesnt have to pay their fines it opens a legal basis for every other accused corporation to not pay their fines
[QUOTE=IPK;39822118]You installed Windaws 8,that is your first mistake[/QUOTE] Windows 8 is good. I like it more then 7.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39823215]Imagine that you sold mp3 players and distributed some pieces of sample music with your systems that your company had created. It's a digital item that costs nothing to preload onto your product. Then the EU comes in and says, "No! Fuck you! You have to distribute a selection of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Vilvaldi if you want to do that." How would that not be supremely idiotic?[/QUOTE] Someone explain why this analogy is flawed.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39824668]Someone explain why this analogy is flawed.[/QUOTE] You're simply oversimplifying it. You're also forgetting that Microsoft Windows is on pretty much all pre-built computers & laptops (except if they're made by Apple) And let's not forget about how many current manufacturers of Personal media devices there is.
[QUOTE=Van-man;39824716]You're simply oversimplifying it. You're also forgetting that Microsoft Windows is on pretty much all pre-built computers & laptops (except if they're made by Apple) And let's not forget about how many current manufacturers of Personal media devices there is.[/QUOTE] Ipods dominate the market. Do you really think that anyone would give half a used turd if apple had a couple of random songs preloaded onto their ipods? Even if ipods didn't dominate the market, consider it hypothetical.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;39824914]Ipods dominate the market. Do you really think that anyone would give half a used turd if apple had a couple of random songs preloaded onto their ipods?[/QUOTE] iPods don't really dominate at the current time. That isn't [i]relevant[/i].
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