Neuroscientist says children are being 'labelled' as having ADHD when there could be other reasons f - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Swebonny;44399561]"Neuroscientist says children are being 'labelled' as having ADHD when there [B]could be other reasons for their disorder[/B]" I work with students with ADHD, and the "symptoms" are definitely real. I'll have to change the shitty title I'm afraid.[/QUOTE] Yes and the sun moving over the sky is a real phenomena but that doesn't mean it revolves around the earth.

[QUOTE=Killuah;44399729]Yes and the sun moving over the sky is a real phenomena but that doesn't mean it revolves around the earth.[/QUOTE] What are you trying to do here?

[QUOTE=Swebonny;44399761]What are you trying to do here?[/QUOTE] The "symptoms" being real doesn't mean anything. Catching a cold is not "having a runny nose", it's being infected. The mindset of "symptoms being real" validating ADHD as a condition that needs to be treated bears the danger of Cargo-Medicine.

[QUOTE=SweetSwifter;44399372]It always felt strange to me where the line is drawn between what can be called a 'disorder', and what's simply someone's character. Then again, I know little to nothing about the actual science about it. If there are clear and real physical indicators (brain patterns, genetic markers), then I suppose there can be an actual difference.[/QUOTE] A line exists. The line is if it causes a marked impairment/distress in an individual or their social, interpersonal, and occupational roles. If it does, it's a disorder. If it doesn't it's not and can be a non-harmful character trait. Example A - Individual is socially withdrawn, prefers to stay inside and read copious amounts of fantasy novels. He's totally okay with it and can still take care of his basic needs and function in society - This person is not a candidate for a Cluster A type personality disorder. Example B - Individual is socially withdrawn, prefers to stay inside, and reads copious amounts of fantasy novels. Because of this intense obsession he is unable to take care of himself (hygiene, feed, adequately clothe) and his relationships and job performance has started to suffer because of it. This person is a candidate for a Cluster A personality disorder. THE MORE YA KNOW.

[QUOTE=Aidan_088;44399627][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mupqsy0.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] That is obviously where the "other reasons" come in. How is that hard to understand? I took an abnormal psychology class that went over ADHD, my psychology professor was pretty adamant about how ADHD symptoms are very real but are statistically more prevalent in dysfunctional households, and that the symptoms for ADHD seem to go away for almost everyone around 18-21. I had a step brother who took medication for ADHD, he had an overzealous christian mother that wouldn't let him do anything and a father that sexually abused him. Not saying that that is the cause of ADHD, but he definitely expressed the symptoms. Simply pointing out that ADHD symptoms can exist without ADHD being considered a "real disease"

[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;44399918]That is obviously where the "other reasons" come in. How is that hard to understand? I took an abnormal psychology class that went over ADHD, my psychology professor was pretty adamant about how ADHD symptoms are very real but are statistically more prevalent in dysfunctional households, and that the symptoms for ADHD seem to go away for almost everyone around 18-21. I had a step brother who took medication for ADHD, he had an overzealous christian mother that wouldn't let him do anything and a father that sexually abused him. Not saying that that is the cause of ADHD, but he definitely expressed the symptoms. Simply pointing out that ADHD symptoms can exist without ADHD being considered a "real disease"[/QUOTE] So essentially children being brought up in bad ways.

[QUOTE=Killuah;44399926]So essentially children being brought up in bad ways.[/QUOTE] In that case yeah, but there could be other causes as well. The point being ADHD can very well be a symptom of something bigger but it definitely exists.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;44399690]I'm surprised nobody has compared it to trying to treat homosexuality yet.[/QUOTE] That would be a really bad comparison.

I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, which was odd because I had really high grades and was liked by my teachers at school. I still don't know why I was diagnosed except for the fact that I, being a child, was hyper as all get-out.

[QUOTE=Killuah;44399867]The "symptoms" being real doesn't mean anything. Catching a cold is not "having a runny nose", it's being infected. The mindset of "symptoms being real" validating ADHD as a condition that needs to be treated bears the danger of Cargo-Medicine.[/QUOTE] Okay? I didn't say that it validates ADHD and I don't think anyone are saying that in this thread nor in the article. I'm just saying that the symptoms are real, as opposed to what the earlier title said. And I don't really understand your cold comparison. A symptom of having the cold/being infected and several other diseases is having a runny nose. You can't diagnose someone by just looking at a runny nose, but you know that there's a cause behind it. The symptom is real. There are visible and noticeable symptoms of kids and adults that at this moment are classified under the ADHD umbrella. The symptoms are real. What the cause is we still don't know, and that's what people are trying to find out. Dismissing them as "not being real" is just being ignorant.

Surprisingly your sleep has a lot to do with it and a lot aren't aware of it. You could have a sleep disorder causing and not know because you're KO'd for 8 hours. Fragmented sleep, apnea, PLMD, RLS etc. all manifest symptoms remarkably similar to ADHD. Everyone has different causes - depression consequently leads to lack of motivation and constantly distracting thoughts which the legal speed medication would do wonders for. It exists, it just manifests differently for everyone.

[QUOTE]whose work has been acknowledged by work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith[/QUOTE] Surely it would be more relevant if the education secretary acknowledged it or someone with actual expertise? Getting IDS in on this kind of shit just gives him more reasons to classify certain people with real issues as work capable and withdraw subsistence payments (or "benefits" if you prefer) when many of them really face difficulties that are crippling.

I definitely have it, even with medication I still cannot fully complete assignments even with multiple attempts at therapy and medication and its seriously endangering my chances of going to college. Hell, I stopped typing this mid-sentence to go do something else. Anyone who says its not real can go away. Is it over-diagnosed? Hell yeah, some people just aren't trying, but to those who are it is a sad sad experience.

[QUOTE=Killuah;44399430]You essentially just said "i don't like doing stuff I don't like to do"[/QUOTE] Ya pretty much. When I was "diagnosed" with ADD when I was in like 8th grade, the doc asked me, "If you were at an amusement park, and saw a long line at a roller coaster, would you wait in line?" I told him, "It really depends on how long the line is." He just laughed with my parents and were just like, "Oh okay" The questions for diagnosis are stupid. I dont really believe in add/adhd, but I believe in the medicine to help you get your school work done and learn a little bit of something in a short time crunch.

The DSM (the psychological standard for diagnosing disorders) was updated last year and includes new diagnostic material. [url]http://www.drthomasebrown.com/dsm-5-changes-in-adhd-diagnostic-criteria/[/url] Overall in the field it is considered to be over diagnosed by psychiatrists, because their pay is more dependent on prescriptions than psychologists (whom are not qualified to prescribe things). That said it is a very real disorder, despite your personal feelings on the subject. The problem is misdiagnosis,l. Clinicians need to approach the disorder with more care and more emphasis on the long term symptoms.

if there's one thing I learned from being in the most competitive class in my highschool, if your on adderol you are the ones getting A+'s. At least I passed with an A- average without taking a bunch of drugs

I rather think ADHD is partly a symptom of our one-size fits all school system and the pill popping culture we live in. Also I think people just sheepishly want everything to be part of some disorder and be "cured" of it. also in my time as a boyscout in charge of like 4-5 really unstable kids, there is a fine line between just bad character and parenting and ADHD and parents who decide to screw with the dosages like two weeks medicated and two weeks off, are just asking for shit to happen. [editline]30th March 2014[/editline] there deifinatly is a disorder, but I think part of the problem with younger kids is especially since boys are predominantly diagnosed with ADHD, not all boys are able to go to school and sit and pay attention at the same age. there are kids I've known that frankly should be medicated like crazy and their parents won't but argument here is that while a disorder does exist, its being over diagnosed to many people that dont have it and are just not matured enough for school.

ADHD is certainly real, but there isn't any doubting that misdiagnosis' are a large issue i was misdiagnosed with ADHD as a kid. that held me back for a long time as i was slotted for medication that i did [I]not[/I] need in any scenario; and if anything, lowered my quality of life.

I was diagnosed with ADHD as a teenager. I stopped taking adderal after it zombified me and started practicing meditation in its place. Over a short period of time I was able to develop focus and rid myself of my anxiety. It's like a muscle that needs exercising. In most cases it's probably caused by a childhood with too many video games and too little responsibility which makes it difficult to not feel the need to be entertained every second of the day.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;44400464]Okay? I didn't say that it validates ADHD and I don't think anyone are saying that in this thread nor in the article. I'm just saying that the symptoms are real, as opposed to what the earlier title said. And I don't really understand your cold comparison. A symptom of having the cold/being infected and several other diseases is having a runny nose. You can't diagnose someone by just looking at a runny nose, but you know that there's a cause behind it. The symptom is real. There are visible and noticeable symptoms of kids and adults that at this moment are classified under the ADHD umbrella. The symptoms are real. What the cause is we still don't know, and that's what people are trying to find out. Dismissing them as "not being real" is just being ignorant.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying the symptoms aren't real. The comparison with the runny nose was meant to show that having a runny nose doesn't imply a cold, in fact equalizing them is dangerous when for example your runny nose is coming fromautoimune reactions to mold in your house or something. Also I'm having a hard time with calling it smptoms because that already implies a disease.

When I first got diagnosed ADHD, I honestly didn't believe it. Started vyvanse, got me doing shit. Now? I rarely ever take it. If I do, I find that I have increased anxiety and restlessness and I end up not doing the thing I was planning to do. After a few anxiety attacks caused by being unable to focus on homework, even on amphetamines, I just stopped taking them. I just don't do homework often - and my teachers understand that it's difficult for me to focus. ADHD is a real disorder, but it's absolutely overdiagnosed, and I think I'm one of those. I have high anxiety and I'm an absolute perfectionist, so homework that would take most people 30 minutes can take me upwards of 3 hours and leaves me totally drained of energy. I've honestly spent 4-5 hours writing a single page for a paper trying to get the flow of the words and the sentence structure to sound just right, and to flesh out my arguments perfectly. I have an unbelievable attention span when it comes to things I'm interested in. Misdiagnosed ADHD is just a way to get kids who aren't interested in school to focus, and it's ridiculously harmful. On vyvanse I'm more irritable and less personable, I bubble over with talkativeness to the point of being annoying, and I lose the nuances that make me who I am. Really, there are much better solutions to having poor focus in school. My lack of focus didn't come from some innate brain difference, it came from the stress of an enormous amount of coursework, an argumentative family working towards divorce, and an underdeveloped response to anxiety because of homeschooling. ADHD is real, but you probably don't have it. The symptoms are so meaningless and can be caused by a huge variety of other issues, but it's easier to just throw speed at kids than it is to figure out why they're disinterested in school.

A lot of people describe some ADHD/ADD symptoms as their thoughts flipping through "channels" at light speed and it's super distracting and makes it extremely hard to focus. I'd say it's pretty accurate, as I have it [I]constantly[/I] and because of that, I can barely focus on just [I]living[/I]. A lot of people see me as just dumb or slow, but it's because I just keep having thoughts that just jump from one thing to another extremely fast, and these thoughts have little to no correlation to each other, making it hard to string the thoughts I want together in a timely manner. And sometimes, it's nothing but static. Loud, blaring static that drowns out everything else. I can't pay attention to a single thing when these things happen, and I often just sit motionless staring into nothing, and minutes pass and I don't even know it until the static finally goes away and I snap back into reality. First it's 2 PM, then suddenly it's 2:45 PM. I used to take Ritalin, and it helped a lot, but it made me have these super weird quirks like picking at my arms until the bled, getting extremely angry at the slightest things, and just really blank and emotionless at other times. Then I tried Strutera(sp?) and it didn't do anything at all. Eventually I gave up. I'm still having the nasty symptoms, though.. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. However, for school, yeah.. I just didn't want to pay attention because I hated it. It was boring, thus, not worth my interest.

you needed to take strutera longer, my brother was on that for years, it does take a month or so to get built up, but unlike ritolin its not speed, also finding the right dose of strutera is tricky sometimes

[QUOTE=Sableye;44404363]you needed to take strutera longer, my brother was on that for years, it does take a month or so to get built up, but unlike ritolin its not speed, also finding the right dose of strutera is tricky sometimes[/QUOTE] I took it for 5 years it didn't change a single thing :s

Remember, ADHD is not purely a problem with paying attention. There are 3 kinds of ADHD: The one that purely affects attention span/concentration, the one that purely affects your impulse control and the one that affects both. There are also studies that show ADHD may affect certain chemicals in the brain, proving it is a "real" disorder.

[QUOTE=Croix;44404530]Remember, ADHD is not purely a problem with paying attention. There are 3 kinds of ADHD: The one that purely affects attention span/concentration, the one that purely affects your impulse control and the one that affects both. There are also studies that show ADHD may affect certain chemicals in the brain, proving it is a "real" disorder.[/QUOTE] Your missing the point. Hes not saying it doesnt exist, he is saying it is a symptom not a primary disorder, and that there are often more to the reason kids have it that hasnt been being looked in to well enough

well yeah, ADHD and ADD are babby's first diagnosis - ever wondered why 50% of people seem to have it?

[QUOTE=sltungle;44399408]I don't believe it myself. I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid and after like three days of Ritalin my mum stopped giving it to me (it was making me really depressed and dull), took me back to the psychologists and had a really big argument with them. Glad she did, that shit was horrid. I think I just had (and to a degree still do) a very 'selective' attention. If I don't find it interesting I just won't pay much attention and will get distracted very easily. If it's engaging and interesting though I'll devote all of my attention to it.[/QUOTE] my psyc teacher had us watch this video [video=youtube;Xbq2Ujb3J1U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbq2Ujb3J1U[/video] This describes me too well. I bet in like 20 years they'll come out with a study that links some really common drug like ibuprophen or aspirin or hell maybe caffeine with developmental disorders in that part of the brain

When I was very little, my mother often got fed up with how energetic I was. She was a single parent, and often didn't have the motivation to deal with the craziness of a 6 year old boy. She deemed me "mentally unstable" after a particular incident in school, where I got in trouble for acting out for the ten thousandth time, and decided it was time to seek drug help. She took me to a doctor who gave us various ADHD medications like candy, and I switched medications often. I took Ritalin for a long while, though I often switched to other drugs, the names of which elude me. Some made me eat like crazy and gain a ton of weight, and some absolutely killed my appetite. I remember my mother forcing me to eat two large spoons of peanut butter every day because I was so skinny, you could see my ribs perfectly. They made me want to do something productive, albeit not in the ways you may think. For hours after taking the drugs, I would sit down with a notebook and write out hundreds of skill builds for video games, with full lists of their pros and cons, as well as rating them on my likeliness to use them and all. It really took up a lot of my time. I sometimes consider trying to get a hold of some again, because I sort of miss that feeling. It did mess me up fairly badly at some points though, so I know I never would.

This makes sense. I'm on Concerta and I have ADHD like symptoms but they are actually caused by something deeper (BPD in my case), I think that's the sort of thing being described here.