#WomenAgainstFeminism goes viral as people explain why they don't need feminism anymore - Polidicks

They don't understand feminism? Maybe it's because it's all over the place and the movement does a poor job defining what it's goal is?

[QUOTE=Agoat;45572172]They don't understand feminism? Maybe it's because it's all over the place and the movement does a poor job defining what it's goal is?[/QUOTE] I think the goal of feminism is pretty clear, it's just the how that many disagree on. EDIT: it's also pretty difficult to present a coherent movement and method when it's a problem literally more than 50% of people on the world struggle with. It's bound to change depending on place, personal experiences and culture.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45567406]How about we form some kind of "gender equality movement" or something. You know. Instead of having this MRA v Feminism thing.[/QUOTE] I'm really curious though. We don't refer to the racial equality movement as "black rights" or "not white people rights". We use "civil rights" and this name clearly separates black(any race) power from racial equality. It just makes more sense to use a more inclusive name that snubs misandrists and not just the random Tumblrs but the famous Dworkins and Greers.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45572270]I'm really curious though. We don't refer to the racial equality movement as "black rights" or "not white people rights". We use "civil rights" and this name clearly separates black(any race) power from racial equality. It just makes more sense to use a more inclusive name that snubs misandrists and not just the random Tumblrs but the famous Dworkins and Greers.[/QUOTE] They're called civil rights because black people aren't the only racial minority

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;45572323]They're called civil rights because black people aren't the only racial minority[/QUOTE] Women isn't the only gender There are men and people who are genderfluid.

i just frowned

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45572356]Women isn't the only gender There are men and people who are genderfluid.[/QUOTE] Yes but currently the gender divide is so steep and ingrained to various extents unilaterally through society that it affects negatively both genders. I think the name of the movement should be the last thing that should be considered, especially when dealing with the larger problems of the movement as a whole. It is a fight for equal rights, but currently one side requires a lot of levelling. In response to Kardia, yes I think it is fine that the movement take its current name due to the aspect of society femenism addresses, and has done so for a very VERY long time. Its not insignificant, but changing it to be a catchall rather than its current state is superfluous.

[QUOTE=mn_chaos;45572452]I think the name of the movement should be the last thing that should be considered[/QUOTE] Feminism and it's literal derivatives, as words, have significance both in and outside of the movement. People argue about the definition of feminism all the time. People talk about what makes a person a fake feminist or a true feminist. It has an effect on peoples opinions of the movement. And therefore effects gender rights as a whole. And you're saying that the name of the movement is insignificant?

[QUOTE=mn_chaos;45572452]Yes but currently the gender divide is so steep and ingrained to various extents unilaterally through society that it affects negatively both genders. I think the name of the movement should be the last thing that should be considered, especially when dealing with the larger problems of the movement as a whole. It is a fight for equal rights, but currently one side requires a lot of levelling. In response to Kardia, yes I think it is fine that the movement take its current name due to the aspect of society femenism addresses, and has done so for a very VERY long time. Its not insignificant, but changing it to be a catchall rather than its current state is superfluous.[/QUOTE] Either getting the radicals to use another name for their crusade, or choosing a better name for the good majority would help a lot though.

[QUOTE=Crimor;45572811]Either getting the radicals to use another name for their crusade, or choosing a better name for the good majority would help a lot though.[/QUOTE] No, it wouldn't. It's not feminists' fault that clueless people on the street don't know what feminism is or why it's still important. Why does an entire historical movement and school of academic study have to be renamed just because a handful of girls on tumblr occasionally say upsetting things about men? The fact that everyone concerns themselves so much with this so-called "vocal minority" of feminists who go too far kind of indicates to me that people aren't actually at peace with the goals of feminism because, if they were, I think they'd be more concerned with more meaningful things like institutional sexism and not derail every single conversation about feminism into a conversation about the kinds of feminists that they don't like.

seriously compare the amount of 'misandrist' things said about men on tumblr to the huge amounts of misogyny posted on reddit daily

Every ideological movement that has ever existed ends up with a few people who take that ideology too far but for some reason only feminists specifically catch shit for that fact. Threads about climate change don't get derailed into conversations about ecoterrorists.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45572935]No, it wouldn't. It's not feminists' fault that clueless people on the street don't know what feminism is or why it's still important. Why does an entire historical movement and school of academic study have to be renamed just because a handful of girls on tumblr occasionally say upsetting things about men? The fact that everyone concerns themselves so much with this so-called "vocal minority" of feminists who go too far kind of indicates to me that people aren't actually at peace with the goals of feminism because, if they were, I think they'd be more concerned with more meaningful things like institutional sexism and not derail every single conversation about feminism into a conversation about the kinds of feminists that they don't like.[/QUOTE] It's hard to help people that see you as an enemy.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45573021]Every ideological movement that has ever existed ends up with a few people who take that ideology too far but for some reason only feminists specifically catch shit for that fact. Threads about climate change don't get derailed into conversations about ecoterrorists.[/QUOTE] feminists catch VASTLY more shit than everyone else precisely because we're nowhere near true equality yet. its also sad how so many seem to forget one the reasons women have more freedom now is precisely because of the feminist movement. and part of facepunch seems to have a hateboner against feminism, always focusing on the bad shit, never on the good things.

[QUOTE=Crimor;45573102]It's hard to help people that see you as an enemy.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry about your paranoia. Hopefully you get some help with that.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45573021]Every ideological movement that has ever existed ends up with a few people who take that ideology too far but for some reason only feminists specifically catch shit for that fact. Threads about climate change don't get derailed into conversations about ecoterrorists.[/QUOTE] When is the last time you heard something about what you would refer to as a "true" feminism in a public, well known source? Now apply that same question about "true" climate change advocates... and you have your answer. I just saw an article the other day about a recent climate change conference in one of the most read newspapers in the country, but I can't remember ever hearing about "true" feminists doing anything recently. It's not that the minority happens to be loudest, but that the minority is literally the only things most people hear.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45572935]No, it wouldn't. It's not feminists' fault that clueless people on the street don't know what feminism is or why it's still important. Why does an entire historical movement and school of academic study have to be renamed just because a handful of girls on tumblr occasionally say upsetting things about men? The fact that everyone concerns themselves so much with this so-called "vocal minority" of feminists who go too far kind of indicates to me that people aren't actually at peace with the goals of feminism because, if they were, I think they'd be more concerned with more meaningful things like institutional sexism and not derail every single conversation about feminism into a conversation about the kinds of feminists that they don't like.[/QUOTE] Because it's not just about women anymore. Why should people already preoccupied with jobs a families care about an issue they likely already consider resolved? Why are we pretending that Feminism is the perfect name for it? Pointing fingers is not how you get anyone to join your cause.

[QUOTE=sgman91;45573231]It's not that the minority happens to be loudest, but that the minority is literally the only things most people hear.[/QUOTE] This is something worth thinking about. If modern western feminism is perceived to be championed by tumblr feminists and their ilk, then modern western feminism is doomed for a lot of ridicule. Why aren't the so called true-feminists of the west changing perceptions? It's understandable if they are too busy fighting for their cause in order to deal with imposters. But isn't their cause being jeopardized by these "fakes"? Won't these imposters effect women's rights?

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45572270] It just makes more sense to use a more inclusive name that snubs misandrists and not just the random Tumblrs but the famous Dworkins and Greers.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Shadaez;45573008]seriously compare the amount of 'misandrist' things said about men on tumblr to the huge amounts of misogyny posted on reddit daily[/QUOTE] When did redpill reddit become all people who don't believe that feminism is an appropriate term for a gender equality movement?

[QUOTE=sgman91;45573231]When is the last time you heard something about what you would refer to as a "true" feminism in a public, well known source?[/QUOTE] Like, all the time in magazines and academic journals?

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45573458]Like, all the time in magazines and academic journals?[/QUOTE] The VAST majority of people don't read academic journals. So that's fairly irrelevant to my point. What magazines, specifically, are you talking about?

[QUOTE=sgman91;45573492]The VAST majority of people don't read academic journals. So that's fairly irrelevant to my point. What magazines, specifically, are you talking about?[/QUOTE] Fairly irrelevant but not entirely irrelevant, which is why I thought they were worth the mention. As for magazines, blimey, I'm not actually an avid reader of any. I just pick them up when I see them and have a flick through a few articles. Cosmopolitan, Take a Break, probably all of those Women's Weekly issues I've never bothered picking up? I suppose it's also worth mentioning programs like Loose Women too. I never really liked the show (especially in the Carol McGiffin days) but that's another mainstream platform for these issues to be discussed.

[QUOTE=Kardia;45573377]This is something worth thinking about. If modern western feminism is perceived to be championed by tumblr feminists and their ilk, then modern western feminism is doomed for a lot of ridicule. Why aren't the so called true-feminists of the west changing perceptions? It's understandable if they are too busy fighting for their cause in order to deal with imposters. But isn't their cause being jeopardized by these "fakes"? Won't these imposters effect women's rights?[/QUOTE] Having things like the "tumblr" feminist and other radical offshots really helps the media totally ignore anything "true" feminists do. After all, the stuff "true" feminists do is largely educational, and a little bit political. The everyday person can be exposed to feminist ideology and never realise it because it's not that out there. But throw FEMEN into the mix and the average person [B]sees[/B] feminism, because it's a lot easier to notice women with no tops on charging around Russia and shit. The things proper feminists set out to do are usually not so absurd that they actually garner the attention of the media. It's quite a simple problem really.

As a social service worker in study, I despise Tumblr for setting any movement towards true equality back twenty years - And this sort of bullshit is the proof of that.

sorry wrong thread

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45573675]It's quite a simple problem really.[/QUOTE] Is it a simple problem with no solution? Or is it a simple problem with no incentive to address it?

[QUOTE=Agoat;45573279]Because it's not just about women anymore. Why should people already preoccupied with jobs a families care about an issue they likely already consider resolved? Why are we pretending that Feminism is the perfect name for it? Pointing fingers is not how you get anyone to join your cause.[/QUOTE] Oh it's okay guys, they think the issues are resolved, feminism can go away now. If the issues aren't resolved, they should care, and a major aspect of feminism today is bringing the fact that women still have a bad deal to light, rather than let it slip away. Why should the name of the cause change? A vast majority of gender related issues are faced by women still, it just so happens that by tackling those issues the male part of the population will also see benefits. It's a largely female focus with the added benefit of positive effects for the male side too.

[QUOTE=archangel125;45573685]As a social service worker in study, I despise Tumblr for setting any movement towards true equality back twenty years - And this sort of bullshit is the proof of that.[/QUOTE] You can't be serious

[QUOTE=Emperorconor;45573689]the way im trying to understand it is that "rape" in itself is an entirely separate crime (coercive sex with someone), but that while additional things will make the experience for the victim worse (such as using overt violence), it still doesn't detract from the fact that they were still raped.[/QUOTE] Wrong thread. [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1414408&p=45573622#post45573622"]This[/URL] is where you want to go.

[QUOTE=Kardia;45573707]Is it a simple problem with no solution? Or is it a simple problem with no incentive to address it?[/QUOTE] It's very hard to solve the issue, the problem itself is obviously straightforward, stopping it isn't. You can try and distance yourself from the radicals, but the media won't listen as it's not interesting enough, it's much easier to paint all feminists as crazy naked ladies after all. You could try and raise awareness for the real purpose of feminism, but again it's not interesting enough, or the guys in charge wont care enough to give you the time. This is largely why feminism is discussed in academia and not in public as much, because whilst it's an important issue, it's not actually interesting enough to most people to grant it airtime or a public platform. Admittedly this is also why we need the radicals that give it a bad name, because it raises awareness. But right now it's the wrong kind of awareness.