#WomenAgainstFeminism goes viral as people explain why they don't need feminism anymore - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;45567904]i've never heard a gay rights campaigner claim their movement is attempting to benefit anyone but gay people though and in fact that's a terrible example because most people identify as LGBT campaigners as they're trying to represent all of them under one movement not even going to get involved in this argument, but that your point makes no sense seeing as 'gay rights' [I]has[/I] actually changed to include other genders/orientations in the name, and so become LGBT[/QUOTE] also just an addendum to this, I can't think of a single instance of straight people being discriminated against in any meaningful way, so it also doesn't make sense to have 'straight people rights' come into LGBT basically don't compare LGBT stuff to MRA and Feminism - completely different ballpark

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;45567904] not even going to get involved in this argument, but that your point makes no sense seeing as 'gay rights' [I]has[/I] actually changed to include other genders/orientations in the name, and so become LGBT[/QUOTE] Absolutely, but still not straight cisgender people. There's definitely plenty of complaining that those people don't have representation anymore (for some reason) but I can't say that I've ever seen any of those complaints lodged at LGBT rights activists. It's just sort of sprayed everywhere.

#menagainstwomenagainstfeminism

Why not mass change the name then, I mean if it supports both, Men and Women why call it feminism? call it some shit like The Global Alliance for Equal Rights Among Humans or some shit

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;45567897] men = 1 women = 0 feminism seeks to make it 1:1[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zeke129;45567948] Namely, no longer shoehorning women into the role of caretaker and getting more women into the workforce.[/QUOTE] Fix mens issues by focusing on women? You're seriously missing the point of a gender equality movement. When it was the suffrage movement it made sense to primarily focus on women and to be fair it does make sense to give them more attention now but we shouldn't just only focus on women's issues.

[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;45567971]A few issues I have personally are that women don't have to train to the same standards as men to serve the same positions as them, and they also don't have to register for the draft, despite now being able to now take any position in the military. I also have problems with the way possesions are distributed in divorce cases. There are more issues than this, but these are ones I personally have problems with.[/QUOTE] and the reason for that is because we have an idea that a certain gender is more frail or weaker therefore should be exempt while the other should be manly & tougher therefore should "man up" for his country that's a called a gender role. guess whose against gender roles? and uneven divorce cases? several instances of gender roles!! guess who fights that??

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45567983]Fix mens issues by focusing on women? You're seriously missing the point of a gender equality movement. When it was the suffrage movement it made sense to primarily focus on women and to be fair it does make sense to give them more attention now but we shouldn't just only focus on women's issues.[/QUOTE] do you know why men are more comfortable with taking up jobs such as teachers or nurses, thought to be traditionally female roles

[QUOTE=Zeke129;45567978]Absolutely, but still not straight cisgender people. There's definitely plenty of complaining that those people don't have representation anymore (for some reason) but I can't say that I've ever seen any of those complaints lodged at LGBT rights activists. It's just sort of sprayed everywhere.[/QUOTE] because it wouldn't make sense to there are no straight person rights issues; there are no studies or statistics that give any credence to the idea that there are - there's no problem there for that group to exist. that's why LGBT groups never claim to 'solve the problems that are faced by straight people' - because there are no problems. the difference is, while gay rights changed to involve the spectrum as a result of rights issues faced by 'BT', and so changed what the movement was, feminism is dealing with the problems faced by men without any such change not saying that it needs to change, but I'm saying you can't compare LGBT to feminism in this case. Gay rights has changed in the terminology, feminism hasn't.

[QUOTE=duckmaster;45567981]Why not mass change the name then, I mean if it supports both, Men and Women why call it feminism? call it some shit like The Global Alliance for Equal Rights Among Humans or some shit[/QUOTE] Because it's an entirely counter-productive thing to do? If you can't get past the fact that the equal rights movement, with more history than your very being, is called Feminism, you aren't going to be productive in any of these movements and should probably just sit aside and let people who give a fuck do their thing. People who "hate feminists" love to call themselves "egalitarian" in an attempt to look better than feminists, in reality it's just a meaningless term for them to hide behind so they don't have to associate with "those awful tumblr faggots" or whatever.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45567983]Just only focus on women's issues.[/QUOTE] I feel like everyone will attack you for this I don't know if that's right or wrong but even asking this/stating this will bring you hate from the history of these arguments on this site. I agree with feminism, i'm a proponent of it, it's a good thing to have, but I have a problem with people who attack because these questions/thoughts are even had.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;45567993]and the reason for that is because we have an idea that a certain gender is more frail or weaker therefore should be exempt while the other should be manly & tougher therefore should "man up" for his country that's a called a gender role. guess whose against gender roles? and uneven divorce cases? several instances of gender roles!! guess who fights that??[/QUOTE] Right but I've never seen a feminist group say that women should have to register for the draft for example. Feminist groups were constantly fighting for women to have the same rights to join the military as men, but I've never seen any feminists fighting for women to have to register for the draft. I don't think that's a problem, just like I don't think that the NAACP should have to go to bat for a white dude being oppressed by some black guys. I have no problem with feminism being focused on women, what I do have a problem with is people claiming that it's focused on everyone and mocking anyone who tries to focus on issues that men have.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45567983]Fix mens issues by focusing on women? You're seriously missing the point of a gender equality movement. When it was the suffrage movement it made sense to primarily focus on women and to be fair it does make sense to give them more attention now but we shouldn't just only focus on women's issues.[/QUOTE] weird that you ignore the parts where they talk about gender roles being the root of both sets of issues and how feminism fights those

[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;45568015]Right but I've never seen a feminist group say that women should have to register for the draft for example. Feminist groups were constantly fighting for women to have the same rights to join the military as men, but I've never seen any feminists fighting for women to have to register for the draft. I don't think that's a problem, just like I don't think that the NAACP should have to go to bat for a white dude being oppressed by some black guys. [B]I have no problem with feminism being focused on women, what I do have a problem with is people claiming that it's focused on everyone and mocking anyone who tries to focus on issues that men have.[/B][/QUOTE] oo i misread this at first no one's saying that men don't have issues. feminism tries to address these. it's when reactionary MRAs come to fart around is when something negative happens

[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;45568015]Right but I've never seen a feminist group say that women should have to register for the draft for example.[/QUOTE] Probably because a lot of them think [B]nobody[/B] should be forced into registering into military service. Even if it's a time of emergency, if someone doesn't want to fight, forcing them to isn't going to help.

[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;45568015]Right but I've never seen a feminist group say that women should have to register for the draft for example. Feminist groups were constantly fighting for women to have the same rights to join the military as men, but I've never seen any feminists fighting for women to have to register for the draft. I don't think that's a problem, just like I don't think that the NAACP should have to go to bat for a white dude being oppressed by some black guys. I have no problem with feminism being focused on women, what I do have a problem with is people claiming that it's focused on everyone and mocking anyone who tries to focus on issues that men have.[/QUOTE] probably because a lot of feminists are against the idea of a draft itself? lots of feminists are identified as left-wing, and they don't like the idea of a draft. what they do is like is the fact if someone is going to volunteer in a government institution, they should have the same rights as men and as if i said, name one thing MRA fights for that feminism doesn't, because when you say feminism only focuses on women, that is an attack on them because even you claim that feminists ignore issues men have so tell me what they are????

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45568013]I feel like everyone will attack you for this I don't know if that's right or wrong but even asking this/stating this will bring you hate from the history of these arguments on this site. I agree with feminism, i'm a proponent of it, it's a good thing to have, but I have a problem with people who attack because these questions/thoughts are even had.[/QUOTE] maybe because rangergxi has been told quite possibly one thousand times about how the central idea of feminism is to remove gender roles from society and that the causes of both men and womens issues are gender roles yet he still says this crap again and again

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45568005]Because it's an entirely counter-productive thing to do? If you can't get past the fact that the equal rights movement, with more history than your very being, is called Feminism, you aren't going to be productive in any of these movements and should probably just sit aside and let people who give a fuck do their thing. People who "hate feminists" love to call themselves "egalitarian" in an attempt to look better than feminists, in reality it's just a meaningless term for them to hide behind so they don't have to associate with "those awful tumblr faggots" or whatever.[/QUOTE] I think it would be more productive because it would cut the crap of people looking at the movement and thinking it's strictly for women's rights, I mean it may be my inferior simple mind, but thats the first thing that comes to mind when I think " Feminism "

who actually gives a shit about tumblr?????

[QUOTE=Furioso;45567828]Why is this getting so many dumbs? I think there's pretty good reasons to dislike both modern feminism [I]and[/I] men's rights activism, namely because they pick and choose issues instead of actively addressing the root of the problem: gender roles. This video presents a decent examination of gender roles, their place in modern and historical society, modern feminism, and it also touches on the reactionary birth of men's rights activism as well. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA[/media][/QUOTE] I really hate seeing this video around the forums. She implies that women have historically been treated better and doesn't seem to think the fact that they had no control over the situations she talks about is all that important. She also has this idea that feminists want to be sheltered and protected in addition to getting preference when it comes to jobs and positions of power, which is bullshit.

[QUOTE=duckmaster;45568052]I think it would be more productive because it would cut the crap of people looking at the movement and thinking it's strictly for women's rights, I mean it may be my inferior simple mind, but thats the first thing that comes to mind when I think " Feminism "[/QUOTE] well i guess that's the problem with actually being knowledgeable about a subject huh? having to look past the most blatant surface thing like a name or a look

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45568060]who actually gives a shit about tumblr?????[/QUOTE] oopsie poopsie gotta mention those darn tumblr feminists and trans folk because they're somehow relevant even though i'm just seeking to fill in my personal qualms against people

[QUOTE=Jackald;45568045]I think the distinction needs to be made between Equal Rights Activists, Feminists and Tumblr Feminists. Equality is great, but not always practical because of biological reasons. For example, in an equal society, women would get the same amount of maternity leave as men, which would then place people in stable relationships less likely to land jobs since employers will, even if not consciously, not want to hire someone who is potentially going to be off work for 6 months of paid maternity/paternity leave. That's the kind of issue that needs to be worked out in a realistic and logical way. That kind of stuff is what we need. What we don't need is playing victim complex to batshit insane levels: [img]http://i.imgur.com/ua1h6Y3.png[/img] [img]http://puu.sh/az8zK/6e883b7707.png[/img] [img]http://puu.sh/az8Cf/0ff57e8222.png[/img][/QUOTE] [img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67791000/jpg/_67791938_binladenprotest_getty.jpg[/img] stop focusing minorities plz

[QUOTE=Jackald;45568045]I think the distinction needs to be made between Equal Rights Activists, Feminists and Tumblr Feminists. Equality is great, but not always practical because of biological reasons. For example, in an equal society, women would get the same amount of maternity leave as men, which would then place people in stable relationships less likely to land jobs since employers will, even if not consciously, not want to hire someone who is potentially going to be off work for 6 months of paid maternity/paternity leave. That's the kind of issue that needs to be worked out in a realistic and logical way. That kind of stuff is what we need. What we don't need is playing victim complex to batshit insane levels: [img]http://i.imgur.com/ua1h6Y3.png[/img] [img]http://puu.sh/az8zK/6e883b7707.png[/img] [img]http://puu.sh/az8Cf/0ff57e8222.png[/img][/QUOTE] Well shit guys, he found a crazy on the internet. Feminism is beaten, lets pack our shit up and move out, we're done.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45568073]well i guess that's the problem with actually being knowledgeable about a subject huh? having to look past the most blatant surface thing like a name or a look[/QUOTE] That's the thing though, to get a movement headed stronger into the right direction it must be relatively easy for someone to understand the movement and help push it further towards it's goal.

[QUOTE=Jackald;45568100]If you actually read my post, you'd realise I was using it as an example of the kind of shit that is not conducive to equal rights activism. I'm saying that acting like that isn't helpful. Are you refuting that statement?[/QUOTE] it's kind rude to barge in and post this when this has been stated a billion times by others

[QUOTE=Zeke129;45567948]Feminists have been acknowledging that gender roles negatively affect men since the very beginning. The things that MRAs complain about today, men being burdened with dangerous work, men not being able to see their kids as much as they'd like, etc, [B]would be directly addressed by achieving some of feminism's first goals. Namely, no longer shoehorning women into the role of caretaker and getting more women into the workforce.[/B][/QUOTE] Is that not just saying "We're gonna focus on women's issues, and fix men's issues by doing so"? I mean, that's acknowledging that men have issues, too, but it's hardly placing equal emphasis on the issues faced by both sexes. That's the thing that people generally take issue with.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45568081]Well shit guys, he found a crazy on the internet. Feminism is beaten, lets pack our shit up and move out, we're done.[/QUOTE] holy fucking shit did you actually read his posts like this is why you guys get such a bad fucking rap on facepunch, [B]he even said there needs to be a distinction between tumblr feminists and feminists [/B]before you go throwing around this knee jerk shit, how about [B]actually reading the fucking post in the first place[/B]

[QUOTE=Jackald;45568100]If you actually read my post, you'd realise I was using it as an example of the kind of shit that is not conducive to equal rights activism. I'm saying that acting like that isn't helpful. Are you refuting that statement?[/QUOTE] no shit it's not helpful, is focusing on that kind of crap helpful either? what are we or anyone supposed to do about it? call them idiots? physically restrain them from posting stupid crap on tumblr? boycott tumblr???? do somethign with tumblr??? TUMBLR TUMBLR TUMBLR?

Calling feminism synonymous with gender egalitarianism is a [B]big load of bullshit[/B]. The word is tied directly to "feminine", showing it's focus on women through literal definition. In terms of use, the word is used in a modern context to describe [I]any advocacy of female power[/I], not male power. I'd like to say however, that feminism and gender egalitarianism can both lead in the same direction. Towards the ideal equality of genders.

[QUOTE=Kardia;45568117]Calling feminism synonymous with gender egalitarianism is a [B]big load of bullshit[/B]. The word is tied directly to "feminine", showing it's focus on women through literal definition. In terms of use, the word is used in a modern context to describe [I]any advocacy of female power[/I], not male power. I'd like to say however, that feminism and gender egalitarianism can both lead in the same direction. Towards the ideal equality of genders.[/QUOTE] hey let's not play the needless semantics argument again please