#WomenAgainstFeminism goes viral as people explain why they don't need feminism anymore - Polidicks

to be honest I don't give a fuck about the inner machinations of the "kill all white men" side of tumblr. they're just a bunch of loosely amalgamated nutcases who really do have almost no sway on anything of import

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45568179]Oh boy, we got one of these guys floating about. Language is malleable, deal with it. Language today is nothing like language a century ago, a decade ago, or hell even a day ago in some cases. And we still understand the world around us about the same.[/QUOTE]Then why are you so resistant to somebody saying "yeah, feminism is kind of female-inclusive and doesn't really represent equal rights. Maybe a name change is in order?" I mean the idea that feminists everywhere will just hivemind that shit and change the name overnight to something else is a bit absurd, but you're going above and beyond to paint anyone who doesn't like the name (and you never once care to think about how they feel about what feminism actually stands for: equal rights) as some sort of MRA fedorist retard. Yeah, I refuse to use the "feminist" label and just politely say, "I believe in equal rights across the board" because it states my opinion on a wide variety of issues and saves me time. I'm not going to neatly define which fucking factions I belong to so I can carefully fit into a neat little group for other people's convenience. [QUOTE=Raidyr;45568348]I've mentioned it before but the specter of the "tumblr feminist" is a fascinating piece of internet culture. On almost no other topic is there such widespread outrage against something that is so nebulously difficult to define but simultaneously covers an entire ideology who's history extends long before Tumblr or the internet was ever created. More still, the continued use of this generalization is defended because "tumblr feminists" are somehow the loudest, when in reality they would be completely irrelevant if it weren't for the people who already have a chip on their shoulder, either over genuine feminism or "tumblr" feminism, actively seeking out what basically amounts to the same silly people you get all over the internet for any given topic. Obviously generalizations over every topic occur where we like to accuse all gun owners of being armed psychos or all Call of Duty players as 13 year old assholes, but it's really not as pervasive as this "tumblr feminist" trend where individuals on a website are cast as the de facto figurehead of hundreds of years of social equality[/QUOTE]While I do agree with you, I must point out that the tumblr feminist isn't just some radical caricature. They do exist, hell, I have one on my Facebook who feels it's absolutely necessary to inject gender issues into everything and I've largely removed that person from my life. I just can't stand talking about the finer points of mermaid farming in Dwarf Fortress and then suddenly this lunatic shows up with how that's just my misogynist subconscious self asserting dominance over virtual women. Yeah, sure, in an ideal world only the MRA types would see the great misandrist conspiracy being perpetuated by tumblr and vice versa, but it's not that way in reality. Innocent people get caught in the middle without any real opinion one way or the other, and then that's when the beast takes it's true form. Yeah, generalizations exist in every topic, but I really don't think that they're any more or less prevalent as this one and I think the real-world examples of the stereotypes are more or less the same in number across the board. Maybe certain subjects have their exceptions, but the big ones? Nah, I think they're all about the same ratio of mainstream to minority, and the wild bogeyman examples are just as outlandish (and hilarious!) if you look at them all objectively.

Why are there so many people now rating the article winner anyway? Is it because they're against feminism as a whole, or just the annoying minority? To address this post again: [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45567501]In fact, I think this should be clear. [B]They are not slandering the Feminism that fights for the ability of Women to be able to Abort a fetus[/B], or the pay gap. They're slandering the "tumblr modern feminism" of playing the victim for views, and trigger warnings, and everything is apparently rape, and that men are always evil.[/QUOTE] Judging by some of their signs it really doesn't appear this is the case. [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtUq_bLCUAARDzh.jpg:large[/t] This lady in particular seems adamant that feminism is [U]NOT[/U] about women having the right to abortions. If there was a campaign against the annoying minority who post on tumblr because they think men are evil, it would be more appropriate to hold up signs saying "Stop whining you idiots" or "Stop misrepresenting serious feminists and academics". (Ultimately, a campaign against a loud minority would be a relatively pointless and stupid thing to do anyway.) Instead, they use #WomenAgainstFeminism, which is easy to interpret as women against feminism as a whole. For many of the women pictured in the article, that appears to be exactly what it is. I suspect there's a large number of people on Facepunch who think feminism is bad because of the loud minority, so they click winner and leave the thread. The people who stick around to discuss these things tend to be pro-feminism because they're the ones most passionate about it. I may be wrong on that assumption so that's why I'm asking, where do people really sit on the issue?

You don't need feminism anymore, you say? Try getting past that glass ceiling ;)

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45567912]And you wont get that without a movement pushing for it, because the oldmen in power sure as shit don't give a fuck about a woman having the right to control their body. After all, why should they care? They're largely white, middle class or higher males who could afford umpteen abortions for their trophy wives.[/QUOTE] [i]A[/i] movement, sure. But not the one we have, which is only trying to reverse the equation rather than balance it out.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;45568681]Then why are you so resistant to somebody saying "yeah, feminism is kind of female-inclusive and doesn't really represent equal rights. Maybe a name change is in order?"[/quote] Because it isn't true? Feminism does represent equal rights despite what you might be led to believe by the extremists on both sides. Why erase hundreds of years of historical progress under the feminist name just because someone on facebook posted something you didnt agree with?

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45568695]So where do people really sit on the issue?[/QUOTE]Basically some are dismissing that the tumblr hyper-feminazi type even exists, some are saying that they're ruining everything, some don't care, some are commenting about how such a vocal minority has spawned such a response, and finally some are just anti-tumblr. Like, nobody here is anti-feminist and I don't think anyone likes that particular stereotype, it's mostly been an argument about semantics and the meaning of things. So business as usual!

[QUOTE=TestECull;45568737][i]A[/i] movement, sure. But not the one we have, which is only trying to reverse the equation rather than balance it out.[/QUOTE] lol feminism isn't trying to reverse the equation at all

[QUOTE=Duck M.;45568740]Because it isn't true? Feminism does represent equal rights despite what you might be led to believe by the extremists on both sides. Why erase hundreds of years of historical progress under the feminist name just because someone on facebook posted something you didnt agree with?[/QUOTE]How does not using a word erase hundreds of years of social progess!? What the fuck kind of logic is that? Can you please explain that further, because I really don't understand.

[QUOTE=TestECull;45568737][i]A[/i] movement, sure. But not the one we have, which is only trying to [B]reverse the equation rather than balance it out.[/B][/QUOTE] People need to stop saying this because it's just flat out wrong. [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;45568765]lHow does not using a word erase hundreds of years of social progess!? What the fuck kind of logic is that? Can you please explain that further, because I really don't understand.[/QUOTE] It's a semantics issue. Feminism was/is a movement with a ton of history tied to it, and throwing out said history because of the culturally prevalent "tumblr feminist" boogeyman that's only existed within the past few years is absurd. I mean, it doesn't erase the history in a literal sense, it's just taking the female association away with it in favor of being ~egalitarian~ which is largely counter intuitive to the movement's past.

[QUOTE=Explosions;45567362]I wonder if this will start an argument.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;hN9ING0gaaA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN9ING0gaaA[/video]

[QUOTE=Duck M.;45568740]Because it isn't true? Feminism does represent equal rights despite what you might be led to believe by the extremists on both sides. Why erase hundreds of years of historical progress under the feminist name[B] just because someone on facebook posted something you didnt agree with?[/B][/QUOTE] i don't think that's anyone's issue with the term feminism. but yes, why not trivialize anything anyone questions you with than reply to it

[QUOTE=Duck M.;45568769]People need to stop saying this because it's just flat out wrong. It's a semantics issue. Feminism was/is a movement with a ton of history tied to it, and throwing out said history because of the culturally prevalent "tumblr feminist" boogeyman that's only existed within the past few years is absurd. I mean, it doesn't erase the history in a literal sense, it's just taking the female association away with it in favor of being ~egalitarian~ which is largely counter intuitive to the movement's past.[/QUOTE]That really doesn't actually explain the method in which it will undo everything that's been accomplished. Plus, if it's just a semantics issue as you say, then it shouldn't matter to the fundamental principles of what the word represents. Unless I'm severely misunderstanding the actual point of feminism (I'm under the impression that it's anything and everything that's for the equal rights and representation of any and all genders) then labeling myself as ~egalitarian~ or whatever shouldn't make a difference.

[QUOTE=TestECull;45568737][i]A[/i] movement, sure. But not the one we have, which is only trying to reverse the equation rather than balance it out.[/QUOTE] I've been avoiding posting in this thread, but holy shit that's pretty dipshitty. You actually think feminism as a whole is a movement dedicated to diminishing rights of men? God damn, this is the worst post on the thread.

[QUOTE=Another Hater;45567380]Also known as people who dont know what feminism is[/QUOTE] Yeah they definitely don't know what a true [del]scotsman[/del] feminist is.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45567406]How about we form some kind of "gender equality movement" or something. You know. Instead of having this MRA v Feminism thing.[/QUOTE] what the fuck do you think feminism is

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;45568961]I've been avoiding posting in this thread, but holy shit that's pretty dipshitty. You actually think feminism as a whole is a movement dedicated to diminishing rights of men? God damn, this is the worst post on the thread.[/QUOTE]I think people misunderstand how these things work. There's no central governing body of feminism or whatever, it's entirely decentralized and the actual application and practice of feminist theory is often wildly different from person to person, depending on who you talk to. I don't think it's the worst post in the thread though, it's just uninformed and misunderstands the ratio of certain types of people under the wider umbrella of feminism. That's nothing new, especially when the most vocal types are also the dumbest crazy motherfuckers.

Should be #WomenAgainstTumblr, since that's the actual plague here.

What's more likely? That these women have personally conquered the problems that feminism addresses? Or that their privileges mitigate a portion of the misogyny they would otherwise face and they internalize the rest?

[QUOTE=zakedodead;45568977]Yeah they definitely don't know what a true [del]scotsman[/del] feminist is.[/QUOTE] that is not even close to how that fallacy works

5 pages, yeah a patented Sensationalist Headlines 10 Page argument is going to happen.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;45567554]No. It's not like that at all. Why would you even think that? We're talking about an ideology here, not race.[/QUOTE] You're not a muslim because you belong to a certain race, a muslim is a follower of Islam. Religion isn't all that different from ideology.

[QUOTE=RustledJimmys;45569293]5 pages, yeah a patented Sensationalist Headlines 10 Page argument is going to happen.[/QUOTE] and now you and I are both wrapped up in some really truly original replies to each other about the futility of ridiculous posts like yours.

A lot of the women in the OP don't seem to get that just because they're okay with being a housewife doesn't mean all women should be pressured to be housewives. And I cringed at that one that said "true feminism is about equal opportunity and respect, not letting those nasty sluts sleep with anyone they want!" [QUOTE=Kristviljan;45569385]You're not a muslim because you belong to a certain race, a muslim is a follower of Islam. Religion isn't all that different from ideology.[/QUOTE] nice no true scotsman fallacy, nerd you don't have to follow Islam to be a muslim just like you don't have to believe in gender equality to be a feminist

[QUOTE=Last or First;45569490]A lot of the women in the OP don't seem to get that just because they're okay with being a housewife doesn't mean all women should be pressured to be housewives. And I cringed at that one that said "true feminism is about equal opportunity and respect, not letting those nasty sluts sleep with anyone they want!" [/QUOTE] yeah, feminism is not about what a woman should or shouldn't do, it's about choice. and yeah those slut shaming ones are really fucked

[QUOTE=Last or First;45569490] nice no true scotsman fallacy, nerd you don't have to follow Islam to be a muslim just like you don't have to believe in gender equality to be a feminist[/QUOTE] I don't get your argument because both of those statements seem by definition incorrect to me and neither seems like a no true Scotsman thing either

Really is kinda funny how close this thread comes to the definition of the word mansplaining. [i]Women are against feminism, so they must actually have no idea what it actually is, let me give my one true definition because you are obviously uninformed.[/i] Doesn't surprise me in the slightest if you realise it's far more complex than just the word equality. Issues like gender roles in whether they should exist or if people just have freedom to go against them, holding the belief that women are generally worse off because surprisingly not all women think they have a raw deal, and various co-opted issues like abortion and promiscuity because women are more than free to have right-wing views on issues. This kind of thing would accomplish a lot if it weren't for everyone just preaching about what feminism actually is and how you couldn't possibly be against it, because there's so many different views on what it constitutes and how the movement in practice acts that categorising it all under feminism is what leads to these arguments. [QUOTE=Venezuelan;45569567]I don't get your argument because both of those statements seem by definition incorrect to me and neither seems like a no true Scotsman thing either[/QUOTE] Plenty of people are non-practising Muslims, and although they were born and by many accounts still are Muslims, they are unassociated with Islam. Because Islam is participatory in this respect, it generally isn't judging someone on factors they cannot control to condemn Islam as opposed to condemning all Muslims unconditionally. The No True Scotsman thing comes into play when defending the ideology from criticism. People might say Islam is violent and oppressive to women, and someone else says that [I]true[/I] Islam is peaceful and equal before Allah. People might say that feminism focusses solely on womens issues, and someone else says that [I]true[/I] feminism focusses on all gender equality. I don't know how that's related to what Kristviljan or Last or First said, but plenty of other people are doing the same thing in this thread.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45569664][B]Really is kinda funny how close this thread comes to the definition of the word mansplaining.[/B] [i]Women are against feminism, so they must actually have no idea what it actually is, let me give my one true definition because you are obviously uninformed.[/i] Doesn't surprise me in the slightest if you realise it's far more complex than just the word equality. Issues like gender roles in whether they should exist or if people just have freedom to go against them, holding the belief that women are generally worse off because surprisingly not all women think they have a raw deal, and various co-opted issues like abortion and promiscuity because women are more than free to have right-wing views on issues. This kind of thing would accomplish a lot if it weren't for everyone just preaching about what feminism actually is and how you couldn't possibly be against it, because there's so many different views on what it constitutes and how the movement in practice acts that categorising it all under feminism is what leads to these arguments. [/QUOTE] This is why it's hard to get involved in these threads, "[I]you men are telling women what they need that's so sexist[/I]". I didn't even want to type that out because it sounds like some MRA bullshit retort but that is literally what you are saying, nobody in the thread came in with the holding up the one true definition of feminism and nobodies trying to [I]mansplain[/I] anything. Plus it's fairly reasonable to question how much some of these people know about the feminist movement with some of their statements, and how is saying "I don't need anyone to tell me the actions of a slut are okay" just a right wing statement and not a sexist slur.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45569664]Really is kinda funny how close this thread comes to the definition of the word mansplaining. [i]Women are against feminism, so they must actually have no idea what it actually is, let me give my one true definition because you are obviously uninformed.[/i] Doesn't surprise me in the slightest if you realise it's far more complex than just the word equality. Issues like gender roles in whether they should exist or if people just have freedom to go against them, holding the belief that women are generally worse off because surprisingly not all women think they have a raw deal, and various co-opted issues like abortion and promiscuity because women are more than free to have right-wing views on issues. This kind of thing would accomplish a lot if it weren't for everyone just preaching about what feminism actually is and how you couldn't possibly be against it, because there's so many different views on what it constitutes and how the movement in practice acts that categorising it all under feminism is what leads to these arguments. Plenty of people are non-practising Muslims, and although they were born and by many accounts still are Muslims, they are unassociated with Islam. Because Islam is participatory in this respect, it generally isn't judging someone on factors they cannot control to condemn Islam as opposed to condemning all Muslims unconditionally. The No True Scotsman thing comes into play when defending the ideology from criticism. People might say Islam is violent and oppressive to women, and someone else says that [I]true[/I] Islam is peaceful and equal before Allah. People might say that feminism focusses solely on womens issues, and someone else says that [I]true[/I] feminism focusses on all gender equality. I don't know how that's related to what Kristviljan or Last or First said, but plenty of other people are doing the same thing in this thread.[/QUOTE] haha wicked, i'm used to being told that i am infact the racist when arguing about racism from a liberal viewpoint, now i've finally been told i am in fact the sexist too

[QUOTE=RAG Frag;45569802]This is why it's hard to get involved in these topics, "[I]you men are telling women what they need that's so sexist[/I]". I didn't even want to type that out because it sounds like some MRA bullshit retort but that is literally what you are saying, nobody in the thread came in with the holding up the one true definition of feminism. Plus it's fairly reasonable to question how much some of these people know about the feminist movement with some of their statements, and how is saying "I don't need anyone to tell me the actions of a slut are okay" just a right wing statement and not a sexist slur.[/QUOTE] Look at the first few pages, I don't even need to quote them, it's all people talking about how they have no idea on what feminism actually is, how it's actually just about equality, and that they must have no idea what they're talking about. It's not something done just to women, it seems to be the standard response to everyone, but I though it was amusing that it fit the definition so well. A lot of their statements involve hyperbole and impressions of feminism that they have but you might not accept, that does not give license to dismiss them outright and assume they know nothing. As for the slut thing, men aren't the only ones with opinions on female promiscuity and I'm sure many see promiscuity for the sake of promiscuity as a bad thing. Regardless of whether you think it's a slur or not, that's their belief and they probably won't change it if you tell them what you think feminism actually is.[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45569824]haha wicked, i'm used to being told that i am infact the racist when arguing about racism from a liberal viewpoint, now i've finally been told i am in fact the sexist too[/QUOTE] Lighten up mate, it was a humorous observation, no need to get defensive over people calling you sexist.