#WomenAgainstFeminism goes viral as people explain why they don't need feminism anymore - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45570315]don't forget that they're also a frigid bitch if they don't fuck me[/QUOTE] finally someone who understands mra.

[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;45570327]finally someone who understands mra.[/QUOTE] How many MRAs does it take to screw in a lightbulb? They cant, they'll just compliment it and get mad when it doesn't screw.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;45570271]If an insult is targeted towards a certain gender and cannot be used for the other one, it is, by definition, sexist. If you seriously think that an insult is only sexist when it "keeps the entire gender down" then you have no idea what sexism is[/QUOTE] Actually it just means I have a different definition of sexist than you do. I'd think that to be sexist it would have to do something in relation to the opposite gender as opposed to behaviour within the gender, but I guess that's why I originally said it was my opinion. What's your view on gendered names by the way, is it sexist that I can't call myself Betty because that's a womans name? It's only used towards a certain gender and can't be used for the other one. [QUOTE=Lachz0r;45570278]'walk around shameless like a slut'. not even gonna bother with the rest of that part of your post since you clearly didn't bother with the rest of mine! and no slut is an insult to put down women who are considered promiscuous by whatever ridiculous standard the idiot who said it hold them to.[/QUOTE] You really are assuming a lot there, especially the assumed ridiculous standard they hold people to, but whatever. If you want to dismiss them just from a few lines of text and saying a bad word, that's your business. [QUOTE=Maloof?;45570303]Cultural gender dimorphism is a problem; it's the entire basis of gender roles, which is where this entire mess springs from. The idea that men can sleep around and be given a pat on the back for it, and women can sleep around and get looked down on for it comes directly from that institution.[/QUOTE] Throwing the baby with the bathwater there. I get that the kind of crap from slut shaming is a problem, and I support the slut walk stuff, but getting rid of all gendered culture just because there's some problems associated is going way too far. It isn't a bad thing inherently, we can change culture for the better and work towards something without these problems, and it'd be a lot easier than divorcing ourselves from any and all gendered culture.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570339] Throwing the baby with the bathwater there. I get that the kind of crap from slut shaming is a problem, and I support the slut walk stuff, but getting rid of all gendered culture just because there's some problems associated is going way too far. It isn't a bad thing inherently, we can change culture for the better and work towards something without these problems, and it'd be a lot easier than divorcing ourselves from any and all gendered culture.[/QUOTE] yeah we got to keep in mind that this is culture, what if we gave up that part where we call women inferior for having sex, what would be next?

The best thing to come out of this tag is [URL="http://confusedcatsagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/"]Confused Cats Against Feminism[/URL] [t]http://31.media.tumblr.com/c9e9d97bcff772d3fd7af7bb8539f185/tumblr_n9bqim0iX91thkqcyo1_1280.jpg[/t]

it IS a bad thing inherently. noone should ever be forced into any sort of role purely because they were born a male or a female. feminism isn't about say, not letting little girls be ballerinas anymore because ballet is nominally a feminine role, it's about letting little girls play soccer if they want to. it's about letting people do what they want to do and be what they want to be without fear of prejudice and discrimination simply because normally their gender doesn't do that thing

I don't really blame these women for thinking that Tumblr feminism is seen as what feminism is. It just makes me sad seeing that's the way things are now.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570339]Actually it just means I have a different definition of sexist than you do. I'd think that to be sexist it would have to do something in relation to the opposite gender as opposed to behaviour within the gender, but I guess that's why I originally said it was my opinion.[/quote] You cannot have a different definition of sexist, it's not fucking subjective. If an insult only applies to one gender, it is sexist, and saying "but I don't think so" doesn't change that

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570254]If slaves didn't want to be freed then you don't really have a right to do it on their behalf. It's obviously bullshit that they wouldn't want it, but this isn't slavery we're talking about, it's pushing the boundaries of sexuality and it gets a lot more iffy than freedom or slavery. Liberalism does not and never has worked by coming up with something new and implementing it just because it's more liberal. You come up with something and the old guard opposes it, but if it's worth a damn and it gets enough support then it can push through that conservative element. If the people who are stakeholders in the issue do not support further liberalisation and you are trying to implement things that they don't want to do, they have every right to oppose it. The entire point of gendered insults is that they insult how someone acts with reference to their gender. Calling a man a pussy or a dickhead is always in reference to being a man, the same as a woman being called a slut or a bitch are in reference to being female. They do not exist as a double standard, they exist because of differing gender ideals, and unless you think that cultural gender dimorphism on its own is a problem then I do not think they are sexist. It might not be nice, same as calling a man a pussy is a problem for emotional support as it encourages men to bottle up their emotions, but it's not really trying to keep the entire gender down.[/QUOTE] But this isn't women not wanting to push boundaries, it's [I]some[/I] women not wanting others to do what they want because of their own moral standing. Slut isn't a gendered insult it's a slur based on the idea that a woman acting promiscuously is a bad thing.

[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;45570352]yeah we got to keep in mind that this is culture, what if we gave up that part where we call women inferior for having sex, what would be next?[/QUOTE] It'll probably work out better than if we got rid of gender altogether. BTW that kind of change is what I am suggesting, not what I am condemning, if you weren't aware. [QUOTE=Lachz0r;45570356]it IS a bad thing inherently. noone should ever be forced into any sort of role purely because they were born a male or a female. feminism isn't about say, not letting little girls be ballerinas anymore because ballet is nominally a feminine role, it's about letting little girls play soccer if they want to. it's about letting people do what they want to do and be what they want to be without fear of prejudice and discrimination simply because normally their gender doesn't do that thing[/QUOTE] Alright, this is good. You have two ideals for this kind of equality, an absolute level playing field in every respect to provide no coercion whatsoever, and the standard kind of distribution but with plenty of freedom to move around as you please and defy what you were given. It's the difference between perfect Communist equality, and a not-too-unequal Capitalist system with plenty of social mobility. Personally I believe that complete removal of gender roles is unrealistic, unwanted, and would cause a lot more problems than it would solve. Some gender roles do provide identity to people, they provide them something to do, and they provide a means with dealing with biological sexual dimorphism. And for those who do not fit into those set gender roles then you make sure the ever-present pressures to fit in with everyone else are not too substantial so you can have that kind of freedom to go against assigned roles. A slight bit of coercion is not a huge problem, and the positive aspects of these gender roles combined with the impracticality of removing them completely from our culture, there isn't a huge need to get rid of them completely. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;45570399]You cannot have a different definition of sexist, it's not fucking subjective. If an insult only applies to one gender, it is sexist, and saying "but I don't think so" doesn't change that[/QUOTE] Subjective turns to objective if you assert it enough, I can see you know that well. Despite that I still disagree, as I have said because something is sexually dimorphic does not automatically mean it is sexist.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570439]It'll probably work out better than if we got rid of gender altogether. BTW that kind of change is what I am suggesting, not what I am condemning, if you weren't aware. Alright, this is good. You have two ideals for this kind of equality, an absolute level playing field in every respect to provide no coercion whatsoever, and the standard kind of distribution but with plenty of freedom to move around as you please and defy what you were given. It's the difference between perfect Communist equality, and a not-too-unequal Capitalist system with plenty of social mobility. Personally I believe that complete removal of gender roles is unrealistic, unwanted, and would cause a lot more problems than it would solve. Some gender roles do provide identity to people, they provide them something to do, and they provide a means with dealing with biological sexual dimorphism. And for those who do not fit into those set gender roles then you make sure the ever-present pressures to fit in with everyone else are not too substantial so you can have that kind of freedom to go against assigned roles. A slight bit of coercion is not a huge problem, and the positive aspects of these gender roles combined with the impracticality of removing them completely from our culture, there isn't a huge need to get rid of them completely. Subjective turns to objective if you assert it enough, I can see you know that well. Despite that I still disagree, as I have said because something is sexually dimorphic does not automatically mean it is sexist.[/QUOTE] The aim is not to say 'you may not behave in classical gender roles'; the aim is to say 'you can behave and identify in the way you feel most comfortable'. This requires the removal of the sociocultural [I]enforcement[/I] of classical gender roles

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570439]It'll probably work out better than if we got rid of gender altogether. BTW that kind of change is what I am suggesting, not what I am condemning, if you weren't aware. [/QUOTE] get rid of genders? uhh, then why are you arguing about this if it's something completely different you want to talk about? at one point you say we need to remove genders, then two paragraphs later you say removing gender roles would cause more problems than it would solve, so what the fuck are you on about?

what in the heck does this have to do with communism or capitalism? and yeah 'slight bit of coercion' okay mate. 'slut is not a sexist slur' 'slight bit of coercion' lol

[QUOTE=RAG Frag;45570435]But this isn't women not wanting to push boundaries, it's [I]some[/I] women not wanting others to do what they want because of their own moral standing. Slut isn't a gendered insult it's a slur based on the idea that a woman acting promiscuously is a bad thing.[/QUOTE] If only it was an individual issue, but this is cultural change we're talking about, not individual change, and when the boundaries are changed for some it affects most. They are involved, and dismissing them because you think they are infringing on others doesn't solve anything. Slut is no different than other gendered insults then as all of them presume on what is acceptable behaviour for that specific gender. But this discussion is going nowhere fast and I don't think it's helping. [QUOTE=Maloof?;45570454]The aim is not to say 'you may not behave in classical gender roles'; the aim is to say 'you can behave and identify in the way you feel most comfortable'. This requires the removal of the sociocultural [I]enforcement[/I] of classical gender roles[/QUOTE] I am aware of that, and both of what I described involve the mitigation of cultural coercion to fit in, but the issue is whether there is a default state and whether such thing as a male or female gender role actually exists. The roles themselves are not inherently bad, only the coercion to fit into them, and this treatment of anything gendered as the problem is misguided. [QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;45570457]get rid of genders? uhh, then why are you arguing about this if it's something completely different you want to talk about? at one point you say we need to remove genders, then two paragraphs later you say removing gender roles would cause more problems than it would solve, so what the fuck are you on about?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;45570460]what in the heck does this have to do with communism or capitalism? and yeah 'slight bit of coercion' okay mate. 'slut is not a sexist slur' 'slight bit of coercion' lol[/QUOTE] This is why serious discussion is rare, few people read and actually understanding what someone is saying comes second to laughing at those you think disagree.

[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;45570457]get rid of genders? uhh, then why are you arguing about this if it's something completely different you want to talk about? at one point you say we need to remove genders, then two paragraphs later you say removing gender roles would cause more problems than it would solve, so what the fuck are you on about?[/QUOTE] "You see the definition of gender is..." [QUOTE=Devodiere;45570508]If only it was an individual issue, but this is cultural change we're talking about, not individual change, and when the boundaries are changed for some it affects most. They are involved, and dismissing them because you think they are infringing on others doesn't solve anything. Slut is no different than other gendered insults then as all of them presume on what is acceptable behaviour for that specific gender. But this discussion is going nowhere fast and I don't think it's helping..[/QUOTE] Cultural change about individual freedom, sure they can have their own opinion but insulting and trying to shame people who think differently is wrong Those 'gendered insults' are wrong.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570439] Subjective turns to objective if you assert it enough, I can see you know that well.[/QUOTE] How ironic that you, the guy who has done nothing but mention sexual dimorphism, without any examples of how and why this applies to this specific discussion, are saying this to me

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;45570512]How ironic that you, the guy who has done nothing but mention sexual dimorphism, without any examples of how and why this applies to this specific discussion, are saying this to me[/QUOTE] Is that all you're reading? Jesus christ, I'm talking about the differing ideals for gender equality and people are just picking out keywords and going for easy points? I'm really wondering whether it's me not communicating my points well enough or if everyone else is just here to circlejerk.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570533]Is that all you're reading? Jesus christ, I'm talking about the differing ideals for gender equality and people are just picking out keywords and going for easy points? I'm really wondering whether it's me not communicating my points well enough or if everyone else is just here to circlejerk.[/QUOTE] there's even people trying to agree with you here, but what you're saying doesn't make fucking sense, in about five minutes you'll be talking about how we should all be genderfluid or something far off like that.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;45570278]'walk around shameless like a slut'. not even gonna bother with the rest of that part of your post since you clearly didn't bother with the rest of mine! and no slut is an insult to put down women who are considered promiscuous by whatever ridiculous standard the idiot who said it hold them to.[/QUOTE] If you think about it, the term "slut" is really just a empty insult. What is a slut? Ask 10 different people, and you’ll get 10 different definitions. The only thing they have in common is a woman who steps out of line, who doesn’t adhere by societal standards of "appropriate”" or modest expression of sexuality. Being a slut isn’t so much "shameful" as it is a social construct, "being a slut" means you’re stepping outside these sexist societal bounds; you are exploring, enjoying, and doing so in a way that you want to (consensually), not in a way others expect you to.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570533]Is that all you're reading? Jesus christ, I'm talking about the differing ideals for gender equality and people are just picking out keywords and going for easy points? I'm really wondering whether it's me not communicating my points well enough or if everyone else is just here to circlejerk.[/QUOTE] Why don't you actually give me an example, then? How does sexual dimorphism apply here? What does it have to do with the usage of the word slut?

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570439]It'll probably work out better than if we got rid of gender altogether. BTW that kind of change is what I am suggesting, not what I am condemning, if you weren't aware.[/QUOTE] oh my god [IMG]http://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/smilies/d/0/cripes.001.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45570552]If you think about it, the term "slut" is really just a empty insult. What is a slut? Ask 10 different people, and you’ll get 10 different definitions. The only thing they have in common is a woman who steps out of line, who doesn’t adhere by societal standards of "appropriate”" or modest expression of sexuality. Being a slut isn’t so much "shameful" as it is a social construct, "being a slut" means you’re stepping outside these sexist societal bounds; you are exploring, enjoying, and doing so in a way that you want to (consensually), not in a way others expect you to.[/QUOTE] There's a different between viewing a word objectively as a descriptor outside of context, and how it would be used with intent most often in a social context. Slut is generally used as an insult to demonise women who step out of line in terms of sexual behavior. That's where it becomes an insult.

[QUOTE=Maloof?;45568757]lol feminism isn't trying to reverse the equation at all[/QUOTE] It's an assumption I often see, that trying to fix an unjust statu quo will somehow invert it. It's been that way before, back in the 1900s you can look at anti-suffragette propaganda art and how it played on the fear that if women got the right to vote they would now run society and be evil against men and whatever

[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;45570541]there's even people trying to agree with you here, but what you're saying doesn't make fucking sense, in about five minutes you'll be talking about how we should all be genderfluid or something far off like that.[/QUOTE] Nah, I don't think it'd do much to explain further. I'd think the context would tell I'm talking about removing gender [I]roles[/I] completely as opposed to literally getting rid of gender, and that I am far from promoting the status quo, but that doesn't seem the case. I guess it's my fault for being slightly unclear and people jumping on it. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;45570554]Why don't you actually give me an example, then? How does sexual dimorphism apply here? What does it have to do with the usage of the word slut?[/QUOTE] This is the tangent we're on. It traces back to you asking why I think slut isn't sexist, and your rejection of the idea that anything sexually dimorphic isn't inherently bad. Are we going to go to go back to an earlier point, take a different tangent, or is it just undisputed truth that it's sexist?

[QUOTE=Devodiere;45570662] This is the tangent we're on. It traces back to you asking why I think slut isn't sexist, and your rejection of the idea that anything sexually dimorphic isn't inherently bad. Are we going to go to go back to an earlier point, take a different tangent, or is it just undisputed truth that it's sexist?[/QUOTE] no, you're gonna give me examples of situations where sexual dimorphism is relevant to the use of the word slut (i mean after all you ARE asking me what we should do)

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45570552]If you think about it, the term "slut" is really just a empty insult. What is a slut? Ask 10 different people, and you’ll get 10 different definitions. The only thing they have in common is a woman who steps out of line, who doesn’t adhere by societal standards of "appropriate”" or modest expression of sexuality. Being a slut isn’t so much "shameful" as it is a social construct, "being a slut" means you’re stepping outside these sexist societal bounds; you are exploring, enjoying, and doing so in a way that you want to (consensually), not in a way others expect you to.[/QUOTE] Or if I wasn't pretentious I could say "they just like to have sex with a lot of people" :downs:

Tumblr has ruined the term feminism. Looking through a lot of 'feminist' blogs on tumblr it's literally misandry.

wow, totally surprised that like 90% of those are by super conservative women, and tons of them are anti-abortion and pro traditional gender roles.

[QUOTE=Netsc;45570779]Tumblr has ruined the term feminism. Looking through a lot of 'feminist' blogs on tumblr it's literally misandry.[/QUOTE] I'm losing count over how many times we've gone over this. [QUOTE=Maloof?;45570148]we did a whole buttload of establishing a few pages back and what we established was: 'tumblr feminist' is a dumb dang silly old phrase with a whole lot of problems and nothing to make it worth using in reasonable conversation[/quote]

cant we all just sit down and laugh our asses off at this hilarious shit: [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/qV5mWe5.png[/IMG] actually thats kinda fucking depressing nvm [editline]2nd August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Netsc;45570779]Tumblr has ruined the term feminism. Looking through a lot of 'feminist' blogs on tumblr it's literally misandry.[/QUOTE] yes a website with no groundings in the real world full of a very vocal minority with no platform to stand on and probably arent much of the activists they claim to be talking about how much they hate men are really affecting feminism