DRAIN THE SWAMP - Mike Pence axes all lobbyists from Trump Transition Team
138 replies, posted
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51378174]The way we are heading now looks like the inverse transition from rule of royalty to rule of people.
We got rid of most monarchies because royal families didn't want people having power and became far removed from the people they arose from. Kings were often war heroes or leaders so great that their people instated them with a permanently leadership position as royalty. Our governments are currently set up so that regardless of your bloodline, you can gain power through government office. Right now, the people who enter politics get so far removed from their origins (see Clinton and her middle-class childhood) through corporate influence or wanting ideological control that they stop truly caring about the people that elected them.
Trump is looking like he's bringing in half of his family to run the White House because that's the way he's run his company for decades. [B]It feels weird saying that I'm not bothered by this[/B], because I always thought appointing family members and friends was an abuse of power because they were most often unqualified for the job. Somehow this family of billionaires seems more relatable than any politician I've seen in my lifetime, and they're headed by a orange steak salesman living in 3 floors of Victorian gold and marble.
There's still plenty of time to fuck up his appointments but I am very excited that we are heading into uncharted territory with a Trump presidency.[/QUOTE]
That's the conscience screaming
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51378376]I'm sick of presidential and political dynasties like you've said which is why I find it weird now thinking having the Trump family run the White House for 4 years will be a good thing.[/QUOTE]
This is called cognitive dissonance.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51378348]I'm fine with anyone becoming president, but... should people with zero political experience be elected to run a country in modern America?[/QUOTE]
It's hard not to have political experience. Because ultimately politics is dominated by human nature. Politics in the work place. Politics in something like gaming communities, etc. Am I comparing POTUS to gaming communities, no. But what I'm trying to point to is politics is just part of human nature. Even if some would like to ignore that.
Running a government will undoubtedly be a bit different. But ultimately, anyone who has served high up in organizations will be familiar with what ends up going on. Going from a Senator to POTUS is massively different. Even though both are in government. We've had Presidents who only served in the military before becoming President. And the military runs much differently compared to a civilian government. As long as the person is adaptable it'll be fine.
And modern really has nothing to do with much. Times always change. We cannot keep accepting the same leaders over and over again. Humanity is always been about adapting to evolving conditions. Even if some would prefer things never change.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51378038]Good. Most lobbyists suck and destroy our planet and country with their self-centered objectives.[/QUOTE]
Amazingly Tom Wheeler, the Chairman of the FCC was in fact previously a lobbyist for big telecom and he's done a pretty decent job of being pro-consumer and telling big telecom to get fucked.
[QUOTE=srobins;51378152]Honest question, what positive purpose does lobbying serve? Like, what is the optimal function of lobbying? I'm asking because I really don't know.[/QUOTE]
Making positive change with elected officials. Lobbying is nothing more than sending someone to argue on your behalf to governmental representatives, and that's been used to push plenty of causes that didn't have enormous financial backing. Recent advances in gay marriage rights, for example, have been in large part due to the LGBT lobby.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51378174]The way we are heading now looks like the inverse transition from rule of royalty to rule of people.
We got rid of most monarchies because royal families didn't want people having power and became far removed from the people they arose from. Kings were often war heroes or leaders so great that their people instated them with a permanently leadership position as royalty. Our governments are currently set up so that regardless of your bloodline, you can gain power through government office. Right now, the people who enter politics get so far removed from their origins (see Clinton and her middle-class childhood) through corporate influence or wanting ideological control that they stop truly caring about the people that elected them.
Trump is looking like he's bringing in half of his family to run the White House because that's the way he's run his company for decades. It feels weird saying that I'm not bothered by this, because I always thought appointing family members and friends was an abuse of power because they were most often unqualified for the job. Somehow this family of billionaires seems more relatable than any politician I've seen in my lifetime, and they're headed by a orange steak salesman living in 3 floors of Victorian gold and marble.
There's still plenty of time to fuck up his appointments but I am very excited that we are heading into uncharted territory with a Trump presidency.[/QUOTE]
Oh no, he's finally gone full Pvt. Martin.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51378174]Trump is looking like he's bringing in half of his family to run the White House because that's the way he's run his company for decades. It feels weird saying that I'm not bothered by this, because I always thought appointing family members and friends was an abuse of power because they were most often unqualified for the job. Somehow this family of billionaires seems more relatable than any politician I've seen in my lifetime, and they're headed by a orange steak salesman living in 3 floors of Victorian gold and marble.[/QUOTE]
i'm genuinely at a loss for words
you sure you're not in a cult?
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51378059]Why am I not surprised the lobbyists were Christie goons.[/QUOTE]
they weren't, this is pence going after christie so he can bring in his own lobbiests
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51378085]About that. Might wanna look up how the nazis took over.Trump or even his party isn't the side trying to implement censorship, pay thugs to start riots in the street, hi jacking the media and so on.[/QUOTE]
As a quick aside, what credible proof is there that anybody is being paid to protest? The top sources are InfoWars and /r/TheDonald, and forgive me if I don't take a screenshot of random Craigslist postings and meme-laden rants about Crooked Hillary and George Soros as proof of a Democratic conspiracy. Donald Trump was the least popular candidate of all time. Is it so hard to believe that people would be outraged by his victory, [I]especially[/I] in light of the fact that he squarely lost the popular vote?
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51379940]As a quick aside, what credible proof is there that anybody is being paid to protest? The top sources are InfoWars and /r/TheDonald, and forgive me if I don't take a screenshot of random Craigslist postings and meme-laden rants about Crooked Hillary and George Soros as proof of a Democratic conspiracy. Donald Trump was the least popular candidate of all time. Is it so hard to believe that people would be outraged by his victory, [I]especially[/I] in light of the fact that he squarely lost the popular vote?[/QUOTE]
Allow me to explain me whats going on here. Ever seen a beat dog? Its acts all paranoid, crazy and shit due to its abuse? What you are seeing in Donald supporting circles is the result of crazy SJWs (such as Zarna Joshi) beating the fuck on other people who refused to get in line %110.
Now Trumpeters have become the conservative version of SJWs.
So yeah, they starting to get a bit crazy now just as certain aspects of the left are.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51378174]The way we are heading now looks like the inverse transition from rule of royalty to rule of people.
We got rid of most monarchies because royal families didn't want people having power and became far removed from the people they arose from. Kings were often war heroes or leaders so great that their people instated them with a permanently leadership position as royalty. Our governments are currently set up so that regardless of your bloodline, you can gain power through government office. Right now, the people who enter politics get so far removed from their origins (see Clinton and her middle-class childhood) through corporate influence or wanting ideological control that they stop truly caring about the people that elected them.
Trump is looking like he's bringing in half of his family to run the White House because that's the way he's run his company for decades. It feels weird saying that I'm not bothered by this, because I always thought appointing family members and friends was an abuse of power because they were most often unqualified for the job. Somehow this family of billionaires seems more relatable than any politician I've seen in my lifetime, and they're headed by a orange steak salesman living in 3 floors of Victorian gold and marble.
There's still plenty of time to fuck up his appointments but I am very excited that we are heading into uncharted territory with a Trump presidency.[/QUOTE]
Do you see any of the Trump family running for President in the future?
[QUOTE=Whoaly;51380058]Do you see any of the Trump family running for President in the future?[/QUOTE]
Ivanka would be the most likely, but the last thing I want is for the Trump family to be become the next set of Bushes of Clintons that never leave DC. I want one or two terms of Trump and then move on.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51380089]Ivanka would be the most likely, but the last thing I want is for the Trump family to be become the next set of Bushes of Clintons that never leave DC. I want one or two terms of Trump and then move on.[/QUOTE]
Will most likely be 2 terms the way the Democratic Party is going...
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51378376]I'm sick of presidential and political dynasties like you've said which is why I find it weird now thinking having the Trump family run the White House for 4 years will be a good thing. Uncharted territory into a different kind of dynasty and yet I'm excited anyway.
If he ends up apppinting Donald Hoffman as SoE I will probably never question him again. Its gonna be a long two months while we find out the results.[/QUOTE]
It's kind of weird to complain about political dynasties in one breath but hope the trump family sticks around the white house. They should be as far away from the white house as possible, don't they have a business to run.
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51380007]Allow me to explain me whats going on here. Ever seen a beat dog? Its acts all paranoid, crazy and shit due to its abuse? What you are seeing in Donald supporting circles is the result of crazy SJWs (such as Zarna Joshi) beating the fuck on other people who refused to get in line %110.
Now Trumpeters have become the conservative version of SJWs.
So yeah, they starting to get a bit crazy now just as certain aspects of the left are.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea how this relates to what BDA asked.
[QUOTE=srobins;51378152]Honest question, what positive purpose does lobbying serve? Like, what is the optimal function of lobbying? I'm asking because I really don't know.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=My blog]Lobbying is nothing mysterious. Without lobbying, you cannot have a democracy. Lobbying is simply the meeting of various interest groups with politicians. Lobbying isn’t just done by big, scary corporations. Lobbying is done by a huge variety of groups. As a UK example, my father has been chair of APIL. APIL is the professional organisation for personal injury lawyers, and lobbies in favour of their groups, as well as for causes that it agrees with. Another lobby group he is a member of is Liberty, an organisation which lobbies in favour of protecting civil liberties. Neither of these are mysterious, or subversive, or evil. He believes in the vast majority of the causes lobbied in favour of, and is simply exercising his democratic right, whether or not it is in his own self-interest, to express his views to politicians. My point is that lobby groups extend far beyond simply big corporate groups. Almost any group you can think of will engage in lobbying, from all sides of the political spectrum. Without lobbying, your favourite groups, whether they are labour unions or men’s rights activists, will be unable to influence politicians.[/QUOTE]
Without lobbying, there would be effectively no way between elections for interest groups of any kind (whether corporate or non-corporate) to have any access to politicians.
I mean just look at the name, lobbying. It's because you would literally go to the lobby of a representative so you could talk to them. Politicians don't have a nuanced understanding of every issue so they depend on talking to these people, also if you're found to be giving blatantly false information you're usually gone pretty quickly because you risk jeopardizing their chance of reelection if they act on that false information and it backfires hard.
Sure it can get shady sometimes, but its necessary. It's not like we can't make attempts to remedy things if problems become particularly prevelant
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51380196]It's kind of weird to complain about political dynasties in one breath but hope the trump family sticks around the white house. They should be as far away from the white house as possible, don't they have a business to run.[/QUOTE]
This is actually something I sort of defend Trump on. What precisely is the difference between a President asking a close personal friend to be an high-ranking advisor (as is fairly common) to Trump's relationship with family members (especially Jared Kushner)? Trust is vital for any advisory position.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51380276]This is actually something I sort of defend Trump on. What precisely is the difference between a President asking a close personal friend to be an high-ranking advisor (as is fairly common) to Trump's relationship with family members (especially Jared Kushner)? Trust is vital for any advisory position.[/QUOTE]
But they're running the Trump business at the same time which is a total conflict of interest.
I don't even really see the problem with "dynasties" if they're democratically elected. If a family just so happens to keep producing politicians people want to vote for, what's the problem?
The issue with old authoritarian dynasties was the authoritarian aspect, first one to slip out the vagina and not die before the emperor dies gets coronated. Doesn't really apply here
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;51380276]This is actually something I sort of defend Trump on. What precisely is the difference between a President asking a close personal friend to be an high-ranking advisor (as is fairly common) to Trump's relationship with family members (especially Jared Kushner)? Trust is vital for any advisory position.[/QUOTE]
Trust is vital, but so is impartial governance.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51380301]But they're running the Trump business at the same time which is a total conflict of interest.[/QUOTE]
Oh, okay. Now I understand why people don't like it.
[editline]16th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51380310]Trust is vital, but so is impartial governance.[/QUOTE]
Impartial governance isn't what you get from advisors. That isn't their purpose.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51378174]The way we are heading now looks like the inverse transition from rule of royalty to rule of people. [/QUOTE]
[t]http://hbu.h-cdn.co/assets/16/19/980x639/gallery-1462816039-donald-trump-1.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/04/16/2D9411AD00000578-3303819-image-a-1_1446653257605.jpg[/t]
*optimism intensifies*
Like, lets hope this shit keeps happening and they can pull shit off... we are rooting for you, scumbag.
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51380007]Allow me to explain me whats going on here. Ever seen a beat dog? Its acts all paranoid, crazy and shit due to its abuse? What you are seeing in Donald supporting circles is the result of crazy SJWs (such as Zarna Joshi) beating the fuck on other people who refused to get in line %110.
Now Trumpeters have become the conservative version of SJWs.
So yeah, they starting to get a bit crazy now just as certain aspects of the left are.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't really answer my question. It was you who just said that "Trump's side" isn't the one "paying thugs to riot in the street." I asked what credible evidence there was that [I]either side[/I] was paying people to riot in the streets, because the original sources for the accusation seem to be InfoWars and /r/TheDonald -- which obviously aren't reliable. Your response not only failed to address that, but simultaneously implied that "crazy SJWs" are somehow to blame for the apparently baseless accusation that [I]you[/I] made.
I mean, we can expand on the conversation if you like, but I'd really like to receive an answer to my original question. You stated this as a fact; you should be able to support your argument when confronted about it. [I]Then[/I] you can divert down this secondary path. So:
1) What credible evidence exists to support your accusation that the protesters are all just paid shills?
2) How are SJWs at fault for [B]your[/B] unfounded accusations?
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51380414]That doesn't really answer my question. It was you who just said that "Trump's side" isn't the one "paying thugs to riot in the street." I asked what credible evidence there was that [I]either side[/I] was paying people to riot in the streets, because the original sources for the accusation seem to be InfoWars and /r/TheDonald -- which obviously aren't reliable. Your response not only failed to address that, but simultaneously implied that "crazy SJWs" are somehow to blame for the apparently baseless accusation that [I]you[/I] made.
I mean, we can expand on the conversation if you like, but I'd really like to receive an answer to my original question. You stated this as a fact; you should be able to support your argument when confronted about it. [I]Then[/I] you can divert down this secondary path. So:
1) What credible evidence exists to support your accusation that the protesters are all just paid shills?
2) How are SJWs at fault for [B]your[/B] unfounded accusations?[/QUOTE]
Yo dude, you're not gonna get anywhere. Look through his post history. A good 70%+ of his posts include at least one complaint about those scary SJWs. He's too deep down that rabbbit hole lol.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;51378410]This is called cognitive dissonance.[/QUOTE]
I have never seen such an obvious case of that.
"Political dynasties are bad, but it's okay for Trump to start one."
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51380385][t]http://hbu.h-cdn.co/assets/16/19/980x639/gallery-1462816039-donald-trump-1.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/04/16/2D9411AD00000578-3303819-image-a-1_1446653257605.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
That is what I am saying. We are moving back to royalty rule with Trump. We are in a weird turning point in history.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51380638]That is what I am saying. We are moving back to royalty rule with Trump. We are in a weird turning point in history.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]I am very excited that we are heading into [B]uncharted territory[/B] with a Trump presidency.[/QUOTE]
This isn't uncharted territory. [U]The founding fathers warned against this,[/U] but you're happy with this. Have you considered thinking harder about what you're supporting?
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;51380659]This isn't uncharted territory. [U]The founding fathers warned against this,[/U] but you're happy with this. [B]Have you considered thinking harder about what you're supporting?[/B][/QUOTE]
i'm gonna go with a solid no
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;51380659]This isn't uncharted territory. [U]The founding fathers warned against this,[/U] but you're happy with this. Have you considered thinking harder about what you're supporting?[/QUOTE]
The founding fathers warned against a lot of things that we have either changed or are trying to change. Why should this be any different? I mean it's not like we're so ass backwards and stupid that we're trying to govern using the entire federal government instead of the individual states, meaning that the federal government can really do some damage.... oh, wait.........
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