DRAIN THE SWAMP - Mike Pence axes all lobbyists from Trump Transition Team
138 replies, posted
[QUOTE=srobins;51382728]What is with people's fixation on insisting Donald Trump is a failure in business? You bemoan the fact that he's a rich billionaire living in a gilded palace in Manhattan and simultaneously insist he's a failure that has never succeeded at anything in his life. Make up your mind which narrative you want to push for fuck sake.[/QUOTE]
Please put more words in my mouth in the future please.
[QUOTE=srobins;51382728]What is with people's fixation on insisting Donald Trump is a failure in business? You bemoan the fact that he's a rich billionaire living in a gilded palace in Manhattan and simultaneously insist he's a failure that has never succeeded at anything in his life. Make up your mind which narrative you want to push for fuck sake.[/QUOTE]
its pretty simple; he was born into wealth and inherited his fathers business connections (real estate), but fails projects he attempts to do on his own (casinos, Trump U, steaks)
Srobins, do you have a problem with me stating facts? You seem to have a problem with me stating facts, and my opinions. Why not just ignore me if you can't respond to me reasonably or rationally without putting words in my mouth? Without creating strawmen for you to argue against that I don't even hold? Maybe if you either 1) respect me enough to not put words in my mouth or 2) ignore me so we both don't have to deal with each other.
[editline]16th November 2016[/editline]
It's not my opinion that Tony Schwartz wrote the book, and Donald had little to nothing to do with the writing of the book, that's not an "opinion". That's a fact.
[editline]16th November 2016[/editline]
And please, do me a favour, point out [B]exactly[/B] where I explicitly said he was a "failure"? Can you please do me that much at least so we can see why you desire to just fill my mouth up with your words?
[QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;51382790]A rich billionaire coasting on old money that they inherited, rather than making most of it themselves. Being wealthy does not an intelligent, shrewd or successful businessman make.[/QUOTE]
None of that even has to do with his initial post, nor mine really though.
I stated, as a fact, that Tony Schwartz wrote the "Art of the Deal", and that Trump had nothing to do with it as a book. Rather than take this as the statement that it is, Srobins put a shit ton of words in my mouth to make the point that I think he's a "terrible failure" which I never said, nor implied.
The reality of the situation is that on [B]day one[/B] of his campaign, he said he was the sole author of the book, and seems to have convinced himself he did in fact write it all alone and that was never really corrected in any sense.
[QUOTE=srobins;51382728]What is with people's fixation on insisting Donald Trump is a failure in business? You bemoan the fact that he's a rich billionaire living in a gilded palace in Manhattan and simultaneously insist he's a failure that has never succeeded at anything in his life. Make up your mind which narrative you want to push for fuck sake.[/QUOTE]
A rich billionaire coasting on old money that they inherited, rather than making most of it themselves. Being wealthy does not an intelligent, shrewd or successful businessman make.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;51381952]Lol he's an extremely successful businessman. He's worth billions of dollars. Before he began his campaign he was considered the archetype of business success. You've been taken for a ride by an admittedly very successful smear campaign.
Being an executive at any level, whether it be the head of a company or a state governor, prepares you far more for the presidency than having some sort of expertise in any specific area. The job requires gathering and curating the real experts and taking advice from them in order to succeed. The goal is irrelevant. In a company maybe it's making as much money as possible. The skills required to do so can be shifted to some other goal in a completely different context. Do you think Trump knows anything about architecture or construction? He's built plenty of buildings, but he is not an expert on these subjects. Perhaps he knows more about it now than he did when he started but that's besides the point. Obama didn't know a damn thing about military strategy when he took office. He got advice from people who [B]do[/B] know a lot about it and he made his decisions from there. That's the entire purpose of having an executive at all. It's not a position to be filled only by some sort of engineered super genius who knows about everything and can make every decision himself because he's so "qualified."[/QUOTE]
brainwashed cultist
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51382780]Srobins, do you have a problem with me stating facts? You seem to have a problem with me stating facts, and my opinions. Why not just ignore me if you can't respond to me reasonably or rationally without putting words in my mouth? Without creating strawmen for you to argue against that I don't even hold? Maybe if you either 1) respect me enough to not put words in my mouth or 2) ignore me so we both don't have to deal with each other.
[editline]16th November 2016[/editline]
It's not my opinion that Tony Schwartz wrote the book, and Donald had little to nothing to do with the writing of the book, that's not an "opinion". That's a fact.
[editline]16th November 2016[/editline]
And please, do me a favour, point out [B]exactly[/B] where I explicitly said he was a "failure"? Can you please do me that much at least so we can see why you desire to just fill my mouth up with your words?[/QUOTE]
Because alot of the times I see you stating facts the more I'm inclined to not believe what you say in the future. I'm not going to dig through past posts to see what what you've said in the past previously but I've come to ignore you alot of the times you post. It's not because I don't like you, it's because you have a tendency to talk about "facts" while grabbing onto fringe news elements to support your narrative. You may not think you're contributing to this general problem we have in SH, but in my opinion, you are.
Alot of your posts come off as extremely hostile or disgruntled to the point where alot of the times, they just don't make sense. As a result, I've come to just disregard alot of the stuff you say. While you're right about alot of different things, I certainly don't believe you're making the effort you should when arguing with others.
[QUOTE=Judas;51382795]brainwashed cultist[/QUOTE]
People like Judas are what I have a problem with when posting SH material in general. There's no argument, there's no attempt, reading your facebook feed or linking a huffingtonpost article isn't political discourse. Name calling isn't either, stop thinking it is.
[QUOTE=Laferio;51382827]Because alot of the times I see you stating facts the more I'm inclined to not believe what you say in the future. I'm not going to dig through past posts to see what what you've said in the past previously but I've come to ignore you alot of the times you post. It's not because I don't like you, it's because you have a tendency to talk about "facts" while grabbing onto fringe news elements to support your narrative. You may not think you're contributing to this general problem we have in SH, but in my opinion, you are.
Alot of your posts come off as extremely hostile or disgruntled to the point where alot of the times, they just don't make sense. As a result, I've come to just disregard alot of the stuff you say. While you're right about alot of different things, I certainly don't believe you're making the effort you should when arguing with others.
People like Judas are what I have a problem with when posting SH material in general. There's no argument, there's no attempt, reading your facebook feed or linking a huffingtonpost article isn't political discourse. Name calling isn't either, stop thinking it is.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all[/url]
3rd time I've linked this article across various threads.
It's a fact
but feel free to flame more
So name calling isn't discourse, I agree. But him putting words in my mouth [B]IS[/B] discourse? By ignoring what he did to focus on how I'm the problem, you're part of the problem. One side gets to strawman the other, and you'll only lambast the side you personally don't like
[editline]16th November 2016[/editline]
But seriously, lets focus on me, and how I'm the problem when I've posted a statement about Trump that you guys would rather ignore, than deal with
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51382661]Didn't stop you from using the threat as a cudgel against people who supported Clinton.[/QUOTE]
That's because her rhetoric and history said otherwise. She specifically said that she wanted a no-fly zone in Syria (a new war) and that she would respond militarily to supposed Russian cyber attacks. And as Sec. of State she spearheaded the destruction of Libya. Trump has only targeted ISIS (a terrorist nation which has attacked us numerous times).
[QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;51382790]A rich billionaire coasting on old money that they inherited, rather than making most of it themselves. Being wealthy does not an intelligent, shrewd or successful businessman make.[/QUOTE]
The guy turned 120 million dollars into several billion dollars. I wouldn't call that "coasting."
[QUOTE=Chonch;51382914]The guy turned 120 million dollars into several billion dollars. I wouldn't call that "coasting."[/QUOTE]
[url]http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/[/url]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51382916][URL]http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/[/URL][/QUOTE]
Totally ignoring the market-moving ability of a hypothetical $3b-$4b portfolio, I think it's pretty fucking incredible that he's managed to build his fortune largely without the help of market investments. Taking that article as fact--had Donald actually just coasted off his wealth, he'd be even richer and even more reviled. Is that close to what you were trying to say? Perhaps you should append an actual post to your link to help explain your point.
[QUOTE=srobins;51378152]Honest question, what positive purpose does lobbying serve? Like, what is the optimal function of lobbying? I'm asking because I really don't know.[/QUOTE]
Lobbyists are people who try to convince the government to write legislation to support things groups of the populace desire. The NRA and ACLU are lobbying groups.
People only disagree with lobbying when it's not something they're for, when groups lobby for topics a person likes, then they're a-ok.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51382943]Totally ignoring the market-moving ability of a hypothetical $3b-$4b portfolio, I think it's pretty fucking incredible that he's managed to build his fortune largely without the help of market investments. Taking that article as fact--had Donald actually just coasted off his wealth, he'd be even richer and even more reviled. Is that close to what you were trying to say? Perhaps you should append an actual post to your link to help explain your point.[/QUOTE]
Yes, he would be richer. That's my whole point. That's why I posed the article. He would be richer. He would be considered a "better businessman" under that scenario. Reviled? Maybe, maybe not, that's down to his personality as a salesperson and television celebrity, not down to his wealth, though I do wonder why you bring up that particular element in regards to why people revile him.
Why do [B]you[/B] think people find him revolting? Do you think people like me only consider him bad due to his wealth and nothing else? Wealth has no inherit value on my judgements of people. Rich or poor you can be a good person.
[QUOTE=Ridge;51382978]Lobbyists are people who try to convince the government to write legislation to support things groups of the populace desire. The NRA and ACLU are lobbying groups.
People only disagree with lobbying when it's not something they're for, when groups lobby for topics a person likes, then they're a-ok.[/QUOTE]
Lobbying is literally an integral part of democracy. It's insane to say that it should be gotten rid of, restrictions? fuck yeah. Abolishment? Hell no.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51383159]Lobbying is literally an integral part of democracy. It's insane to say that it should be gotten rid of, restrictions? fuck yeah. Abolishment? Hell no.[/QUOTE]
I read this and got two ideas.
Is it possible to create a public fund for lobbying?
There is a public fund for social security. Health care. Why not democratize lobbying?
The other idea is it possible to create a private company that like an insurance scheme? The company would allow for a certain price paid per month to generate a pool so those who are members of this scheme can collectively lobby for their own interests?
The problem isn't lobbying it self. The problem is it not being an effective tool for everyone. If it was made into an accessible tool for everyone, for even the most poor, I think that would sort things out.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51383084]Yes, he would be richer. That's my whole point. That's why I posed the article. He would be richer. He would be considered a "better businessman" under that scenario. Reviled? Maybe, maybe not, that's down to his personality as a salesperson and television celebrity, not down to his wealth, though I do wonder why you bring up that particular element in regards to why people revile him.
Why do [B]you[/B] think people find him revolting? Do you think people like me only consider him bad due to his wealth and nothing else? Wealth has no inherit value on my judgements of people. Rich or poor you can be a good person.[/QUOTE]
Making billions off an index fund doesnt make you a businessman at all, just a profitable investor. Soros and Buffett aren't businessmen, just glorified stock pickers and speculators. Trump took his fortune and built things with it, creating hundreds of jobs and adding millions of dollars of value to the US economy--that makes him a successful businessman, possibly one of the most successful in his field.
In answer to your second question, I think he is reviled by totally normal people mostly due to his wealth, but also due to his choice of words and brash personality. These things don't matter much to me. I agree with your last statement.
The only thing trump is really good at is suing people. He's not a good businessman and anyone who thinks so is being conned.
[QUOTE=Chonch;51383249]Making billions off an index fund doesnt make you a businessman at all, just a profitable investor. Soros and Buffett aren't businessmen, just glorified stock pickers and speculators. Trump took his fortune and built things with it, creating hundreds of jobs and adding millions of dollars of value to the US economy--that makes him a successful businessman, possibly one of the most successful in his field.
In answer to your second question, I think he is reviled by totally normal people mostly due to his wealth, but also due to his choice of words and brash personality. These things don't matter much to me. I agree with your last statement.[/QUOTE]
Making billions off of that does actually. Soros and Buffett are both very successful, and fairly knowledgeable about finances and the financial sector.
It's questionable whether he "built things" with it, when the majority of buildings bearing his name, he had nothing to do with the "building" of. Just the licensing of his name to them, and power to him for smart business in that regard, branding does work, but much like investing, is "Branding" what we're going to use to qualify someone as a "Businessman"?
Trump bought many businesses that are no longer around. There are quite a few that scream out "not a great business idea here" and quite a few that were highly profitable affairs, and then Donald bought them, ruining them. Charter flights is the one that jumps out to mind the most, but there are a fair few.
I like how there is no "Middleground" here. I can't just be saying he's not as good as you're all saying, instead it's taken as "He's a total failure". No, he's not, and I never said that. He's not a total failure, he's just not nearly as great as he's being touted as. He has made innumerable "dumb" decisions as a businessman, getting into a variety of industries and areas at very bad times, or making very bad moves. Does that mean I think he's a failure? No! It means I don't think he's all he's cracked up to be.
And for me, there's something that bothers me about a person who rewrites history in their own head, and Trump clearly has in regards to "The Art of the Deal".
[QUOTE=Chonch;51382943]Totally ignoring the market-moving ability of a hypothetical $3b-$4b portfolio, I think it's pretty fucking incredible that he's managed to build his fortune largely without the help of market investments. Taking that article as fact--had Donald actually just coasted off his wealth, he'd be even richer and even more reviled. Is that close to what you were trying to say? Perhaps you should append an actual post to your link to help explain your point.[/QUOTE]
Trump's business plans were buying all the property in an area and holding onto it to artificially raise the price for homeowners. That should be downright illegal since youre controlling the market and harming the consumers. Aussie has the same issues with cunts like trump that are causing housing crisis in dense areas by withholding real estate. They claim they are using the property when actuality they somehow draw as much utilities all together as much as maybe 3 houses with actual people in them.
I read some more on this and apparently the Christie appointees got the boot because Jared Kushner(Trumps son in law) was getting even with Christie after he put Kushner's dad in prison.
Kushner even blocked Christie as the VP nomination and steered Trump towards Pence. He has a very tight grip on Trump's ear and is seemingly one of his closest advisers.
That was from the APP, a local NJ newspaper and it didn't state any specific sources but it makes sense imo.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51382916][url]http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/[/url][/QUOTE]
allow me to respond to your snarky link with my own
[url]http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/dec/09/occupy-democrats/occupy-democrats-say-simple-investment-trumps-fath/[/url]
I'm having such a hard time with this election. I leaned [i]slightly[/i] towards Trump and have been pushed so much harder towards the right by people flat out disregarding my opinion and being called an idiot because of it. I'm at the point where I'm just tired of it all. I've done a lot of research, tried to come to my own unbiased opinions, but people are just so fucking divided on this I honestly have a hard time figuring out if I'm right or wrong on a lot of issues.
At this point, I just want to see how things turn out before I pass anymore judgement. I'd love to be proven right in thinking Trump was the best choice, and I'm okay with being proven wrong. I'm just fucking exhausted watching the shit-flinging from both sides at this point.
[QUOTE=Kyklis;51384994]I'm having such a hard time with this election. I leaned [i]slightly[/i] towards Trump and have been pushed so much harder towards the right by people flat out disregarding my opinion and being called an idiot because of it. I'm at the point where I'm just tired of it all. I've done a lot of research, tried to come to my own unbiased opinions, but people are just so fucking divided on this I honestly have a hard time figuring out if I'm right or wrong on a lot of issues.
At this point, I just want to see how things turn out before I pass anymore judgement. I'd love to be proven right in thinking Trump was the best choice, and I'm okay with being proven wrong. I'm just fucking exhausted watching the shit-flinging from both sides at this point.[/QUOTE]
I don't want to start an argument but I'd like to hear your reasons for leaning Trump. Genuine question.
[QUOTE=Kyklis;51384994]I'm having such a hard time with this election. I leaned [i]slightly[/i] towards Trump and have been pushed so much harder towards the right by people flat out disregarding my opinion and being called an idiot because of it. I'm at the point where I'm just tired of it all. I've done a lot of research, tried to come to my own unbiased opinions, but people are just so fucking divided on this I honestly have a hard time figuring out if I'm right or wrong on a lot of issues.
At this point, I just want to see how things turn out before I pass anymore judgement. I'd love to be proven right in thinking Trump was the best choice, and I'm okay with being proven wrong. I'm just fucking exhausted watching the shit-flinging from both sides at this point.[/QUOTE]
Nail on head with this. I went from being utterly apathetic to hoping Trump won due to how many people starting looking down on Trump supporters here and on other sites.
So many people for the last 15 months haven't tried to engage in proper debate to convince people to their side, instead they tried to shame, insult and patronize people
away from making their own choice.
What's more is that in a bid to get away from the pure negativity of the election cycle I ended up going to places like r/The_Donald and even fucking /pol/, what surprised
me the most (especially The_Donald) was that when people came in and looked for discussion, there was little of the above. I saw a thread with opinions being discussed
between Bernie supporters and Trump supporters about abortion, immovable objects meeting irresistible forces and the outcome was pure debate with the final result being
that they wouldn't agree, so they just left it at that.
There were no people grandiosely claiming that they love to argue and carrying on for hours about it or people throwing stupid biased sources (Left or Right) at each other.
Instead what they did was find the common ground, the anti-establishment tone of the Trump campaign, an end to identity politics and many other small things that were
just about close enough that both sides could compromise and campaign for their candidate with those universally appealing ideals. Whether those common ground issues
will come to pass is yet to be seen but Trump's most vocal and active supporters will push for these things big time.
Places like r/The_Donald became surprisingly inclusive, they had a massive meme fest, people who often came to laugh at the stupid Trump supporters saw that the grass
was greener, people were positive and enjoying their support and they stayed in that subreddit for the optimistic energy that completely dissipated amongst liberal communities,
especially late in the game of this election.
One of the many surprising things about this election was that the Conservative side was inclusive in a way that people could voice opinions that weren't part of the "Hive mind"
without being lambasted for it, they might be judged, they might be told they were wrong but things never got to the level of shit-flinging that SH devolved into for last month.
I honestly think that's why Trump won, the nickname Teflon Don didn't hold that true honestly. People didn't like him, that's fine, you're entitled to your choice. Even here however
I found that the Clinton voters were very capable of saying that most of his supporters weren't "Deplorable" even if Trump was. Do you really think calling his supporters racist,
sexist and bigoted is going to stick when they practically worshiped Ben Carson, Kellyanne and Milo McGreekName and so many others that people would assume they couldn't stand.
Why did they do it? It wasn't because they were trying to appear appealing, they did so because these were people who they respected for having personal responsibility and skill.
I won't wash away the sins of Trump supporters like /pol/ who brigaded and doxxed people, but it would be naive to think that relatively harmless idiots on the internet with too much
time for anime matter that much. What matters is that when Bernie Sanders supporters and Independents who got off their feet to root for a candidate this election were faced with
the Left where you were labelled, insulted and expected to follow the hive mind and the Right where they just wanted to have "High Energy" and actually vote for a candidate who
(I know you love this in SH) "Spoke his mind" and wanted to Make America Great Again.
Top to bottom the optimism of the left and the democrats disappeared as soon as Bernie lost. Lo and behold that the most energized of Sanders' supporters went straight for their
next best chance for political change, they were perfectly willing to have their minds changed but Clinton's vocal supporters saw anyone [I]leaning[/I] Trump as a lost cause.
The left lost this election almost as much as the right won it.
[QUOTE=Hick2;51385246]Nail on head with this. I went from being utterly apathetic to hoping Trump won due to how many people starting looking down on Trump supporters here and on other sites.
So many people for the last 15 months haven't tried to engage in proper debate to convince people to their side, instead they tried to shame, insult and patronize people
away from making their own choice.
What's more is that in a bid to get away from the pure negativity of the election cycle I ended up going to places like r/The_Donald and even fucking /pol/, what surprised
me the most (especially The_Donald) was that when people came in and looked for discussion, there was little of the above. I saw a thread with opinions being discussed
between Bernie supporters and Trump supporters about abortion, immovable objects meeting irresistible forces and the outcome was pure debate with the final result being
that they wouldn't agree, so they just left it at that.
There were no people grandiosely claiming that they love to argue and carrying on for hours about it or people throwing stupid biased sources (Left or Right) at each other.
Instead what they did was find the common ground, the anti-establishment tone of the Trump campaign, an end to identity politics and many other small things that were
just about close enough that both sides could compromise and campaign for their candidate with those universally appealing ideals. Whether those common ground issues
will come to pass is yet to be seen but Trump's most vocal and active supporters will push for these things big time.
Places like r/The_Donald became surprisingly inclusive, they had a massive meme fest, people who often came to laugh at the stupid Trump supporters saw that the grass
was greener, people were positive and enjoying their support and they stayed in that subreddit for the optimistic energy that completely dissipated amongst liberal communities,
especially late in the game of this election.
One of the many surprising things about this election was that the Conservative side was inclusive in a way that people could voice opinions that weren't part of the "Hive mind"
without being lambasted for it, they might be judged, they might be told they were wrong but things never got to the level of shit-flinging that SH devolved into for last month.
I honestly think that's why Trump won, the nickname Teflon Don didn't hold that true honestly. People didn't like him, that's fine, you're entitled to your choice. Even here however
I found that the Clinton voters were very capable of saying that most of his supporters weren't "Deplorable" even if Trump was. Do you really think calling his supporters racist,
sexist and bigoted is going to stick when they practically worshiped Ben Carson, Kellyanne and Milo McGreekName and so many others that people would assume they couldn't stand.
Why did they do it? It wasn't because they were trying to appear appealing, they did so because these were people who they respected for having personal responsibility and skill.
I won't wash away the sins of Trump supporters like /pol/ who brigaded and doxxed people, but it would be naive to think that relatively harmless idiots on the internet with too much
time for anime matter that much. What matters is that when Bernie Sanders supporters and Independents who got off their feet to root for a candidate this election were faced with
the Left where you were labelled, insulted and expected to follow the hive mind and the Right where they just wanted to have "High Energy" and actually vote for a candidate who
(I know you love this in SH) "Spoke his mind" and wanted to Make America Great Again.
Top to bottom the optimism of the left and the democrats disappeared as soon as Bernie lost. Lo and behold that the most energized of Sanders' supporters went straight for their
next best chance for political change, they were perfectly willing to have their minds changed but Clinton's vocal supporters saw anyone [I]leaning[/I] Trump as a lost cause.
The left lost this election almost as much as the right won it.[/QUOTE]
What a crock of shit. You know what? I [I]wish [/I]most Trump supporters really were just a bunch of bigots, because I find even that less sad than people who just competely and utterly surrender themselves to the consumption and regurgitation of vacuous, pandering rhetoric and sloganeering. To anyone with the slightest capacity for critical thinking, it's clear as day how shallow the Trump persona is, and volatile and inconsistent his views and values are. But people like you are just so desperate for something or someone to belive in that they'll fall for the most flimsy, obvious cults of personality imaginable. You embrace blind fanaticism and call it "optimism" and "high energy," regurgitate propaganda and call it a "meme fest," and immersive yourself in a hugbox where nobody will tell you "he speaks his mind" competely meaningless.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51378038]Good. Most lobbyists suck and destroy our planet and country with their self-centered objectives.[/QUOTE]
I feel money and politics should never mix all they should is there basic salary and that's it
[QUOTE=Hick2;51385246]Nail on head with this. I went from being utterly apathetic to hoping Trump won due to how many people starting looking down on Trump supporters here and on other sites.
So many people for the last 15 months haven't tried to engage in proper debate to convince people to their side, instead they tried to shame, insult and patronize people
away from making their own choice.
What's more is that in a bid to get away from the pure negativity of the election cycle I ended up going to places like r/The_Donald and even fucking /pol/, what surprised
me the most (especially The_Donald) was that when people came in and looked for discussion, there was little of the above. I saw a thread with opinions being discussed
between Bernie supporters and Trump supporters about abortion, immovable objects meeting irresistible forces and the outcome was pure debate with the final result being
that they wouldn't agree, so they just left it at that.
There were no people grandiosely claiming that they love to argue and carrying on for hours about it or people throwing stupid biased sources (Left or Right) at each other.
Instead what they did was find the common ground, the anti-establishment tone of the Trump campaign, an end to identity politics and many other small things that were
just about close enough that both sides could compromise and campaign for their candidate with those universally appealing ideals. Whether those common ground issues
will come to pass is yet to be seen but Trump's most vocal and active supporters will push for these things big time.
Places like r/The_Donald became surprisingly inclusive, they had a massive meme fest, people who often came to laugh at the stupid Trump supporters saw that the grass
was greener, people were positive and enjoying their support and they stayed in that subreddit for the optimistic energy that completely dissipated amongst liberal communities,
especially late in the game of this election.
One of the many surprising things about this election was that the Conservative side was inclusive in a way that people could voice opinions that weren't part of the "Hive mind"
without being lambasted for it, they might be judged, they might be told they were wrong but things never got to the level of shit-flinging that SH devolved into for last month.
[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? The_Donald is a safe space where dissent is literally a bannable offense, how is that inclusive or conducive to discussion?
[QUOTE=Hick2;51385246]Nail on head with this. I went from being utterly apathetic to hoping Trump won due to how many people starting looking down on Trump supporters here and on other sites.
So many people for the last 15 months haven't tried to engage in proper debate to convince people to their side, instead they tried to shame, insult and patronize people
away from making their own choice.
What's more is that in a bid to get away from the pure negativity of the election cycle I ended up going to places like r/The_Donald and even fucking /pol/, what surprised
me the most (especially The_Donald) was that when people came in and looked for discussion, there was little of the above. I saw a thread with opinions being discussed
between Bernie supporters and Trump supporters about abortion, immovable objects meeting irresistible forces and the outcome was pure debate with the final result being
that they wouldn't agree, so they just left it at that.
There were no people grandiosely claiming that they love to argue and carrying on for hours about it or people throwing stupid biased sources (Left or Right) at each other.
Instead what they did was find the common ground, the anti-establishment tone of the Trump campaign, an end to identity politics and many other small things that were
just about close enough that both sides could compromise and campaign for their candidate with those universally appealing ideals. Whether those common ground issues
will come to pass is yet to be seen but Trump's most vocal and active supporters will push for these things big time.
Places like r/The_Donald became surprisingly inclusive, they had a massive meme fest, people who often came to laugh at the stupid Trump supporters saw that the grass
was greener, people were positive and enjoying their support and they stayed in that subreddit for the optimistic energy that completely dissipated amongst liberal communities,
especially late in the game of this election.
One of the many surprising things about this election was that the Conservative side was inclusive in a way that people could voice opinions that weren't part of the "Hive mind"
without being lambasted for it, they might be judged, they might be told they were wrong but things never got to the level of shit-flinging that SH devolved into for last month.
I honestly think that's why Trump won, the nickname Teflon Don didn't hold that true honestly. People didn't like him, that's fine, you're entitled to your choice. Even here however
I found that the Clinton voters were very capable of saying that most of his supporters weren't "Deplorable" even if Trump was. Do you really think calling his supporters racist,
sexist and bigoted is going to stick when they practically worshiped Ben Carson, Kellyanne and Milo McGreekName and so many others that people would assume they couldn't stand.
Why did they do it? It wasn't because they were trying to appear appealing, they did so because these were people who they respected for having personal responsibility and skill.
I won't wash away the sins of Trump supporters like /pol/ who brigaded and doxxed people, but it would be naive to think that relatively harmless idiots on the internet with too much
time for anime matter that much. What matters is that when Bernie Sanders supporters and Independents who got off their feet to root for a candidate this election were faced with
the Left where you were labelled, insulted and expected to follow the hive mind and the Right where they just wanted to have "High Energy" and actually vote for a candidate who
(I know you love this in SH) "Spoke his mind" and wanted to Make America Great Again.
Top to bottom the optimism of the left and the democrats disappeared as soon as Bernie lost. Lo and behold that the most energized of Sanders' supporters went straight for their
next best chance for political change, they were perfectly willing to have their minds changed but Clinton's vocal supporters saw anyone [I]leaning[/I] Trump as a lost cause.
The left lost this election almost as much as the right won it.[/QUOTE]
No I'm sick of this shit.
I got called a shill. I got called a liar, I got called all sorts of names by the right, the idea that [B]ONLY[/B] the left slung shit is factually untrue. Sure the left did, far too many, and I was part of that
But now we have historical revisionism from every mildly pro trump person to some clinton voters saying "Nah the right never argued from a position of bad faith, no, the right did everything right, they couldn't have insulted you or dismissed your opinion off hand, that's only for the left!"
it's such a bunch of bullshit.
I don't know about you but I thought the DNC was very optimistic. Compared to the RNC, which was basically an apocalyptic vision which only the donald could save us from.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51388750]No I'm sick of this shit.
I got called a shill. I got called a liar, I got called all sorts of names by the right, the idea that [B]ONLY[/B] the left slung shit is factually untrue. Sure the left did, far too many, and I was part of that
But now we have historical revisionism from every mildly pro trump person to some clinton voters saying "Nah the right never argued from a position of bad faith, no, the right did everything right, they couldn't have insulted you or dismissed your opinion off hand, that's only for the left!"
it's such a bunch of bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Neither side was perfect, either was far from it - but your own post showcases the utterly noninclusive, "us against them" mentality that the Trump camp have been referring to.
"But now we have historical revisionism from [b]every mildly pro trump person[/b]"
Even now you're making broad, angry generalization and accusations against Trump's supporters.
Some on the right are guilty of the same thing, sure, but the narrative of left leaning media was to present constant and unerring character attacks on Trump and his backers. Again and again words like "racist," "bigot," "homophobe," "islamophobe," "sexist," and more were thrown around until they lost a lot of their meaning - especially too the communities they were aimed at. They became left wing buzzwords.
You're going to accuse me of putting words in your mouth here, but what I saw time and time again can basically be summed up as: "How can you even support that bigot. What the hell is wrong with you?" Many on the left had this disdainful, condescending attitude towards the right this election cycle. Trumps voters were either uneducated bible thumping rednecks, or "alt right bigots."
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