Scopes Weeps: Evolution Still Struggling in Public Schools - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Jookia;27767841]Why? It's not even a hypothesis, it's just an idea. Evolution is a fully fledged scientific fact.[/QUOTE] Yea I know. His reasons is because he thinks its impossible for simple creators to become complex creatures and has said its impossible to the class.

It's not necessarily that easy for teachers to teach evolution if the kids don't want to learn it. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNGGNomLx_c[/media] [editline]31st January 2011[/editline] But they still need to crack down and teach it anyway. Something along the lines of "I don't care what you believe, that's your business, but for the context of this class, this is the accepted theory".

[QUOTE=fenwick;27768128]It's not necessarily that easy for teachers to teach evolution if the kids don't want to learn it. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNGGNomLx_c[/media] [/QUOTE] There might be something to it. I mean if they are alive it means that natural selection must be doing something wrong.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;27766275]Or if they were told to teach alchemy in chemistry class[/QUOTE] No that's just awesome.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27767982]Yea I know. His reasons is because he thinks its impossible for simple creators to become complex creatures and has said its impossible to the class.[/QUOTE] Evolution describes how they do become complex. It also took a long time, it didn't just happen in, say.. 6000 years.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27768428]No that's just awesome.[/QUOTE] Well in Chemistry 10 (the first high-school chemistry class I took) there was a little introduction unit about alchemy. Basically just talked about the Philosopher's Stone, dropped a few names which I forget, and discussed the beliefs and how it eventually led into actual chemistry. It was never framed as being an actual science and that's what I was talking about

"This year, we are going to try to transform this piece of led into gold".

Shit, everything I learn in biology is related back to evolution... Not teaching evolution in biology is like not teaching addition and subtraction in math and then expecting them to solve quadratics

[QUOTE=Jookia;27768833]Evolution describes how they do become complex. It also took a long time, it didn't just happen in, say.. 6000 years.[/QUOTE] Yea I know. New organs are formed, reshaped or advanced in organisms all the time. But since this would mean that "men came from dirty monkeys" he likes to think and teach the class thats its impossible.

My science teacher was a major supporter of Evolution and considered himself to be a Native American (Fucker owns horses, made his own canoe out of leather HE SKINNED AND TANNED, and has a hot as fuck Native American daughter(Dude is beyond white, magic happened)). I couldn't imagine it being this big a problem, it just seemed so natural that it be taught.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27767982]Yea I know. His reasons is because he thinks its impossible for simple creators to become complex creatures and has said its impossible to the class.[/QUOTE] Surely there comes a point where they wonder why even have a science class?

Even in university intro to biology we have people get offended and walk out of class when the professor mentions evolution or the big bang :frown:

[QUOTE=jeimizu;27778545]Even in university intro to biology we have people get offended and walk out of class when the professor mentions evolution or the big bang :frown:[/QUOTE] Good, it would be a wasted effort anyway, they should go back to church and pray to the almighty lord to solve all their issues.

[QUOTE=jeimizu;27778545]Even in university intro to biology we have people get offended and walk out of class when the professor mentions evolution or the big bang :frown:[/QUOTE] We should have mandatory slapping lessons for those people and a "welcome back to reality" party for them. On the other hand, if you can't be reasoned with then why should anyone bother with you. There's a difference between stubbornness and idiocy. Idiocy is when you see the factual evidence and get butthurt.

[QUOTE=Acesarge;27720849]If you teach biology and don't believe in evolution there is something wrong.[/QUOTE] Not really. The entire thing is full of holes and doesn't make sense across the board. How many times in the last year alone have they proclaimed they were sure of some missing link, found out they were wrong, and then quietly sweeped it under the rug?

[QUOTE=Jenkem;27780249]Not really. The entire thing is full of holes and doesn't make sense across the board. How many times in the last year alone have they proclaimed they were sure of some missing link, found out they were wrong, and then quietly sweeped it under the rug?[/QUOTE] You do realize that most of those weren't wrong, right? Just not THE missing link.

[QUOTE=Jenkem;27780249]Not really. The entire thing is full of holes and doesn't make sense across the board. How many times in the last year alone have they proclaimed they were sure of some missing link, found out they were wrong, and then quietly sweeped it under the rug?[/QUOTE] Can you elaborate more on how it's full of holes? What you used as an example isn't really an example of evolution being wrong, just scientists making a mistake(which, if you know anything about science, can happen). And like Mingebox said, I don't recall scientists doing that before.

[QUOTE=Jenkem;27780249] How many times in the last year alone have they proclaimed they were sure of some missing link, found out they were wrong, and then quietly sweeped it under the rug?[/QUOTE] None.

Ooooh boy. My junior year of high school, my biology teacher explained evolution as "the idea that a fish decided to walk on land and then turned into a monkey then made humans." He never spoke of it again. My senior year of high school, my anatomy teacher played a short clip from a random Science Channel show about how awesome human reflexes are. The video opened with "Through millions of years of evolution..." The old fart paused it right there and stated in the most arrogant manner "Of course, that is all just [I]speculation,[/I] because it's just [I]a theory[/I]." It's a fucking miracle I made 30+ on my ACTs. [editline]31st January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Jenkem;27780249]Not really. The entire thing is full of holes and doesn't make sense across the board. How many times in the last year alone have they proclaimed they were sure of some missing link, found out they were wrong, and then quietly sweeped it under the rug?[/QUOTE] There is no magical missing link monkey man. There are hundreds of "missing links."

[QUOTE=Jenkem;27780249]Not really. The entire thing is full of holes and doesn't make sense across the board. How many times in the last year alone have they proclaimed they were sure of some missing link, found out they were wrong, and then quietly sweeped it under the rug?[/QUOTE] jesus christ you gotta stop huffing all that jenkem

[QUOTE=Miskav;27780558]You do realize that most of those weren't wrong, right? Just not THE missing link.[/QUOTE] No, there IS no "the" missing link. Scientists were looking for "the missing link" between humans and apes in the 1800s. Since then dozens of transitional species have been discovered, and a pretty clear picture of the path of human evolution has emerged. There's no big missing piece that will prove evolution once and for all. The term "missing link" is popular with the news media because it makes every discovery sound like a game-changer. It's also popular with creationists because they can point to a gap in the fossil record and say "where's your missing link?" And if you find a fossil that fits in between, now you have TWO gaps. And if you fill those gaps you have four, etc. e - [QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;27781435]There is no magical missing link monkey man. There are hundreds of "missing links."[/QUOTE] Oops. Yeah this.

[QUOTE=TH89;27775493]Surely there comes a point where they wonder why even have a science class?[/QUOTE] Yea and screw math as well. I like randomly choosing what amount of food I need to feed my children or pay the rent. also I hate it when people call a theory a guess. I heard this from my teacher today. I mean they make it painfully obvious that they dont know what they are talking about when they say this and sadly there lack of knowledge is there best weapon.

[QUOTE=TH89;27781927]No, there IS no "the" missing link. Scientists were looking for "the missing link" between humans and apes in the 1800s. Since then dozens of transitional species have been discovered, and a pretty clear picture of the path of human evolution has emerged. There's no big missing piece that will prove evolution once and for all. The term "missing link" is popular with the news media because it makes every discovery sound like a game-changer. It's also popular with creationists because they can point to a gap in the fossil record and say "where's your missing link?" And if you find a fossil that fits in between, now you have TWO gaps. And if you fill those gaps you have four, etc. e - Oops. Yeah this.[/QUOTE] That was my exact point, TH89, albeit badly worded.

There's an interesting (but long) piece on the influence of religious groups in the Texas Republican Party. Just to get an idea of what's going on in places like Texas: [url]http://www.tfn.org/site/DocServer/SORR_06_ReportWEB.pdf?docID=222[/url] [quote]The State Board of Education (SBOE) also became embroiled in the right’s attempted purge of moderates from elected office. In fact, Dr. James Leininger of San Antonio used the SBOE as a model for helping Christian conservatives take control of government. In the early 1990s, huge financial contributions from Dr. Leininger turned once-sleepy campaigns for the state board into savage political brawls. (See Chapter 2 for a full discussion of Dr. Leininger.) Christian conservatives supported by Leininger money at first attacked bewildered Democratic opponents as promoters of homosexuality and abortion in public schools. Then Republican moderates on the state board also became targets for defeat. In 2002, conservative Republican board member Geraldine “Tincy” Miller helped finance the defeat of the board’s moderate Republican chairwoman, Grace Shore. Linda Bauer defeated Shore in the GOP primary, but then she proved insufficiently conservative as well. Social conservatives turned on Bauer after she voted in 2003 to approve new biology textbooks that taught about evolution but not the religion-based concept of “intelligent design.” One conservative board member even claimed that Bauer was supported by atheists and communists. Bauer lost a bid for re-election in the 2004 GOP primary to Barbara Cargill, who supports teaching “intelligent design” in science classes and has the full backing of Christian conservatives.[/quote] [quote]The San Antonio physician made a fortune selling specialty hospital beds. His business empire has included a variety of other companies, including Promised Land Dairy (which places a Bible verse on each milk container), the direct mail company Focus Direct and the political consulting firm of Winning Strategies. Yet among Dr. Leininger’s most significant investments have been in the careers of politicians who back his public policy agenda, including tort reform, private school vouchers, pushing religious conservative principles in public schools, and opposition to abortion and gay rights. By the 1990s, Dr. Leininger and his wife were among the biggest financial backers of Republican candidates and causes championed by the religious right. Of course, millions of dollars have also flowed into Republican campaign coffers from donors such as Houston homebuilder Bob Perry and East Texas chicken tycoon Bo Pilgrim. What sets Dr. Leininger apart, however, is his ideological focus. His donations have not been made to benefit just any Republican. His contributions have been targeted almost exclusively to help Republican candidates who agree with his hardright public policy agenda. Indeed, Dr. Leininger has been instrumental in transforming the Texas State Board of Education and the state Capitol into major battlegrounds in the nation’s culture wars.[/quote] [quote]“I don’t believe in evolution – I believe in creation. Some of our books right now only teach evolution, [but] if you’re going to teach one, you ought to teach both. . . . Evolution is a theory. It is a theory, it’s not a fact. There is no fact for evolution, none. . . . Why are we teaching a theory, when we have [another] position – creation – that the majority of the people in this country believe?” - Texas Rep. Charlie Howard, R-Sugar Land, Dallas Morning News, April 25, 2005[/quote] [quote]The party calls for schools to emphasize “Judeo-Christian principles” and for including Bible based “theories” like “intelligent design” about the origin of humans in science textbooks (which would, in effect, water down discussions of evolution). [16, 17] ~2004 Texas Republican Party Platform [/quote] [quote] Mel and Norma Gabler of Longview (Texas) began reviewing textbooks in the 1960s, eventually creating Educational Research Analysts. The Gablers and their successors have criticized textbooks for, as they see it, coverage of evolution, failure to promote phonics-based reading instruction, insufficient support for principles of free enterprise, a failure to promote a strict interpretation of the U.S. Constitution, a lack of respect for Judeo-Christian morals, failure to emphasize abstinence-only-until-marriage instruction in health textbooks, and the “politically correct degradation of academics.” The group’s “reviews” are often really political documents in which many textbook “errors” are simply ideological objections to content. In 2004 the group attacked proposed new health textbooks in Texas as somehow promoting homosexuality and same-sex marriage. Yet the student textbooks included no discussions of sexual orientation, and the teacher editions barely touched on the topic. But Educational Research Analysts argued that the books promoted same-sex marriage through the use of “asexual stealth phrases,” such as “married couples” and “married people,” rather than using language making it clear that marriage is a union of a man and a woman -Referring to the "Textbook Reviews Organization", whose works are often used as an excuse to change biology and social textbooks at the state capitol[/quote]

[QUOTE=TH89;27781927]e -[/QUOTE] Don't bring electrons into this

[QUOTE=MercZ;27784617]There's an interesting (but long) piece on the influence of religious groups in the Texas Republican Party. Just to get an idea of what's going on in places like Texas: [url]http://www.tfn.org/site/DocServer/SORR_06_ReportWEB.pdf?docID=222[/url][/QUOTE] Don't forget Don McLeroy. Everyone's favorite young earth creationist/ State Board of Education member. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_McLeroy[/url]

Teach both. There's no proof that one or the other happened or didn't. Evolution has one huge hole though. Why are there not lines of evolved people coming out of the jungle? Apes are born apes, and die apes. Just my $0.02 :v:

[QUOTE=jeimizu;27784995]Don't forget Don McLeroy. Everyone's favorite young earth creationist/ State Board of Education member. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_McLeroy[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah, McLeroy was a real douche. There's plenty of examples like him- no teaching experience- but are able to get into the SBOE since they are ordinarily uncontested elections (and with the help of the party machine, it's almost a given). He's not there anymore but the rest are just like him. He was more involved with the Social Studies mess though- [url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/881100-The-Texas-State-Board-of-Education-might-wreck-History[/url]

[QUOTE=rosar0980;27785029]Teach both. There's no proof that one or the other happened or didn't. Evolution has one huge hole though. Why are there not lines of evolved people coming out of the jungle? Apes are born apes, and die apes. Just my $0.02 :v:[/QUOTE] uh there's a lot of proof for evolution drug-resistant bacteria, for example? and no one is saying that humans are just going to come out of the jungle we share a common ancestor [highlight]millions of years ago[/highlight] with apes; we didn't evolve from them

[QUOTE=rosar0980;27785029]Teach both. There's no proof that one or the other happened or didn't. Evolution has one huge hole though. Why are there not lines of evolved people coming out of the jungle? Apes are born apes, and die apes. Just my $0.02 :v:[/QUOTE] It is a wonder you are not a biologist your insight is astounding [editline]31st January 2011[/editline] I want my $0.02 back.