Scopes Weeps: Evolution Still Struggling in Public Schools - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;27859898]My friend took a class that focused on the flaws in the theory of evolution like about the major gaps and flaws in carbon, phosphorous and other kinds of chemical dating techniques scientists use to date rocks. (this sounds very Fox-newsy I know but this guy wasn't a nut job and my friend isn't the type to lie about something like this) I asked him for the class information so I can do some studying for myself. I particularly believe that both should be open for teaching. There will always be people who believe in creationism (no matter how much you others may think it is "retarded") so why not give them the same chance evolution got when it finally was allowed to be taught in public schools? I think its only fair. If you read Inherit the Wind, some of the dialogue was changed for dramatic purposes but I believe there were arguments that may have been similar to the part where Drummond says if theres a "Read your Bible" sign above the courthouse, he wants a "Read your Darwin" sign which is just as big and right next to it. This is America we are talking about right? The country where everybody is free to believe what they want? If you teach only creationism or evolution in a classroom, then that student will most likely follow what they were taught the most about. If this was a perfect world with no biased people, this idea of "equally teaching each theory" would work but sadly, it doesn't. I know the intolerant religious people in the deep south back in the 1920s wasn't fair to people who believe in evolution but come on, that's the past. Nobody is alive from back then so don't keep grudges you never had to experience yourself.[/QUOTE] Creationism deserves no place in schools because there is no scientific backing to it. You may think it's "the truth" but that doesn't change the fact it's not anything close to scientifically sound. Creationism is purely religious, and America is a secular nation. Teaching it in public schools would go against the separation of church and state. There's no two ways about it, people may accept it as truth but it doesn't make it a secular idea. Also, kids won't just follow what they're taught. The majority of Christians will just turn their noses up at the concept of evolution and disregard it. The other, more accepting kids, will go on to learn actual science. Another thing about your belief in "micro-evolution". If you believe in that, why isn't it understandable that it could lead into macro-evolution? If a zebra can derive from a horse, why can't the horse derive from a slightly different horse with different genes, and so on for a couple hundred thousand years.

[QUOTE=I Broke The Sun!;27860041] Another thing about your belief in "micro-evolution". If you believe in that, why isn't it understandable that it could lead into macro-evolution? If a zebra can derive from a horse, why can't the horse derive from a slightly different horse with different genes, and so on for a couple hundred thousand years.[/QUOTE] Because if you are a Christian who believes that everything in the bible is literal truth (Creationists) then they believe the earth was created, what? 6,000 years ago? So that wouldn't give enough time for noticeable macro-evolution to take place. at least I wouldn't think so. And not all Christian kids are creationists and not all of them just ignore it. The majority of my friends, once they got to college took courses in anthropology because they wanted to know the ins and outs of the theory. Whether that was for supporting their own creationists ideas or just out of curiosity, I don't know.

[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;27860171]Because if you are a Christian who believes that everything in the bible is literal truth (Creationists) then they believe the earth was created, what? 6,000 years ago? So that wouldn't give enough time for noticeable macro-evolution to take place. at least I wouldn't think so. And not all Christian kids are creationists and not all of them just ignore it. The majority of my friends, once they got to college took courses in anthropology because they wanted to know the ins and outs of the theory. Whether that was for supporting their own creationists ideas or just out of curiosity, I don't know.[/QUOTE] So then why should we teach them something that isn't scientific if they're receptive to learning about actual science? Should we have kids read Twilight in English class as an example of quality literature?

[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;27860171]Because if you are a Christian who believes that everything in the bible is literal truth (Creationists) then they believe the earth was created, what? 6,000 years ago? So that wouldn't give enough time for noticeable macro-evolution to take place. at least I wouldn't think so. And not all Christian kids are creationists and not all of them just ignore it. The majority of my friends, once they got to college took courses in anthropology because they wanted to know the ins and outs of the theory. Whether that was for supporting their own creationists ideas or just out of curiosity, I don't know.[/QUOTE] Which is why you simply tell them they're ignorant and move on. People don't want to believe facts, that's up to them, but I'm not going to spend any resources on them if they're just going to stick their fingers in their ears and their heads up their asses.

[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;27860171]Because if you are a Christian who believes that everything in the bible is literal truth (Creationists) then they believe the earth was created, what? 6,000 years ago? So that wouldn't give enough time for noticeable macro-evolution to take place. at least I wouldn't think so. And not all Christian kids are creationists and not all of them just ignore it. The majority of my friends, once they got to college took courses in anthropology because they wanted to know the ins and outs of the theory. Whether that was for supporting their own creationists ideas or just out of curiosity, I don't know.[/QUOTE] Why do you believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old then? Do you know how that notion goes completely against science and reasoning?

[QUOTE=I Broke The Sun!;27860269]Why do you believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old then? Do you know how that notion goes completely against science and reasoning?[/QUOTE] Your name is perfect for this debate.

[QUOTE=I Broke The Sun!;27860269]Why do you believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old then? Do you know how that notion goes completely against science and reasoning?[/QUOTE] because if you knew anything about faithful people, its that they don't need science to prove something. Ever heard of miracles? Faithful people believe God can do anything. It doesn't automatically make them "ignorant" to science either. Its just a state of mind that God will always be there if something can't be currently proved by science. If you can get that into your head, you might answer your own question. I think I may have gotten way ahead of myself and didn't phrase my posts the way I should have. I realize for atheists anything coming out of the bible is trash to them. But to a jew, anything coming out of the NT is trash. For a Buddhist... for a pagan... I just think that ignorance to others views only creates hate in the world. This is why I always thought the solution to this would to teach a Religion Education History class in school like some English schools in the UK seem to teach. Every American school I ever went to never had a Religion Education class where everybody, atheists, Christians, Muslims ect are all taught about the history and how and why certain people believe certain things. Its a huge issue in the world and can't be ignored. This also would quiet down the people who scream "BLASPHEMY" whenever somebody talks about evolution. Thats my final statement. I haven't researched on the subject enough to stay in the thread. I just wanted to stop the 5 pages of nonstop "Anything you believe is bullshit just because I say so and its not supported by science" or "Anything you say isn't bullshit just because God says so and its not supported by the bible" I'm not TRYING to be on any particular side here... but if I did come across as biased, I'm sorry.

[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;27860400]I think I may have gotten way ahead of myself and didn't phrase my posts the way I should have. I realize for atheists anything coming out of the bible is trash to them. But to a jew, anything coming out of the NT is trash. For a Buddhist... for a pagan... I just think that ignorance to others views only creates hate in the world. This is why I always thought the solution to this would to teach a Religion Education History class in school like some English schools in the UK seem to teach. Every American school I ever went to never had a Religion Education class where everybody, atheists, Christians, Muslims ect are all taught about the history and how and why certain people believe certain things. Its a huge issue in the world and can't be ignored. This also would quiet down the people who scream "BLASPHEMY" whenever somebody talks about evolution. Thats my final statement. I haven't researched on the subject enough to stay in the thread. I just wanted to stop the 5 pages of nonstop "Anything you believe is bullshit just because I say so and its not supported by science" or "Anything you say isn't bullshit just because God says so and its not supported by the bible" I'm not TRYING to be on any particular side here... but if I did come across as biased, I'm sorry.[/QUOTE] Science should be left to science. I agree we should teach religous histories, BUT IN RELIGIOUS HISTORY CLASSES. Creationism has no place in the science room, and should only be taught in religious school as an idea some believe in, not as truth of any sort.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27860450]Science should be left to science. I agree we should teach religous histories, BUT IN RELIGIOUS HISTORY CLASSES. Creationism has no place in the science room, and should only be taught in religious school as an idea some believe in, not as truth of any sort.[/QUOTE] Yes, like I said, I got ahead of myself and fell into somehow saying that both should be taught in SCIENCE class even though I really meant to say just general knowledge that THERE IS ANOTHER THEORY YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT. I agree with you.

[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;27860591]THERE IS ANOTHER THEORY YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT. I agree with you.[/QUOTE] There is no other theory.

[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;27860591]Yes, like I said, I got ahead of myself and fell into somehow saying that both should be taught in SCIENCE class even though I really meant to say just general knowledge that THERE IS ANOTHER THEORY YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT. I agree with you.[/QUOTE] But intelligent design and creationism aren't theories. They're just ideas. They have no evidence, proof or any ability to even be tested. It's not a theory. Evolution is a proven, evidence based, and testable.

[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;27860591]Yes, like I said, I got ahead of myself and fell into somehow saying that both should be taught in SCIENCE class even though I really meant to say just general knowledge that THERE IS ANOTHER THEORY YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT. I agree with you.[/QUOTE] You're putting them on the same logical level by doing that. Should we also tell people about the Norse creation myth, since that''s another theory they should know about?

I dont understand why people dont believe in evolution. We know mutations happen and we know that fitter creatures have more kids. Why cant they put 2 and 2 together?

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27862872]I dont understand why people dont believe in evolution. We know mutations happen and we know that fitter creatures have more kids. Why cant they put 2 and 2 together?[/QUOTE] Because they're stupid

Creationist is evolving! Your Creationist has evolved into an intelligent design supporter!