• A petition signed by over 1million to prevent Donald Trump receiving official state visit in Britain
    95 replies, posted
If this was exclusively Scotland sure I'd sign it.
Aaaaand May's told nearly a million people where to stick this petition. Typical. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38788388[/url]
[QUOTE=scurr;51749670]Aaaaand May's told nearly a million people where to stick this petition. Typical. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38788388[/url][/QUOTE] Like anyone would expect any less. Why would she aim to scuttle US-UK relations because of some online petition? Had Corbyn been PM (Jeebus help us all if that is ever the case), I have no doubt, despite his current mumblings would've done the same thing.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;51749716]Like anyone would expect any less. Why would she aim to scuttle US-UK relations because of some online petition? Had Corbyn been PM (Jeebus help us all if that is ever the case), I have no doubt, despite his current mumblings would've done the same thing.[/QUOTE] Would someone make a full thread on this? I'd do it myself, but it's five AM, and I should probably sleep...
She is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Refusing a visit from the new American president would be an unprecedented diplomatic sleight that the British government couldn't afford at the best of times. With the UK distancing itself from the EU they simply cannot afford losing more allies.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51749783]She is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Refusing a visit from the new American president would be an unprecedented diplomatic sleight that the British government couldn't afford at the best of times. With the UK distancing itself from the EU they simply cannot afford losing more allies.[/QUOTE] It's not an easy position, no. But history tends to keep record of what world leaders did at times like these. Now, Trudeau? What he did was absolutely brilliant. By inviting refugees into Canada, he's not only meeting one of his campaign promises, but managing to make Canada look far better than the United States on the international stage, condemning its actions without directly denouncing the US administration. I honestly think that if Stephen Harper were still our PM, he'd have done exactly the same thing Theresa May did.
Have the U.K. Conservatives done anything in the past decade that doesn't involve them prostrating themselves to everything that gives them a sly look?
[QUOTE=1239the;51749795]Have the U.K. Conservatives done anything in the past decade that doesn't involve them prostrating themselves to everything that gives them a sly look?[/QUOTE] Well they have relentlessly attacked our healthcare system, the poor and the disabled for the duration of their government. Now that I think about, maybe it's the same deal when a kid is bullied at home so he takes it out on smaller kids at school.
[QUOTE=scurr;51749670]Aaaaand May's told nearly a million people where to stick this petition. Typical. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38788388[/url][/QUOTE] I hope she likes protests then. Given how unpopular he (and herself) is I can't imagine a visit will go quietly.
[QUOTE=Trainbike;51749817]I hope she likes protests then. Given how unpopular he (and herself) is I can't imagine a visit will go quietly.[/QUOTE] Honestly I hope they have no end of problems and trouble running this visit. Something to show May and her cronies that they can't just ignore us. Watching May cosy up to Trump as a representative of this country after everything he's done has been fucking disgusting. Everybody speaking against this petition and protest because he's the "democratically elected" leader of the US obviously doesn't understand that activism and petitions are just as much a part of democracy as voting.
Why don't You ban Merkel, whose immigration policy put whole EU in danger of collapsing, and directly affected decision on Brexit and choosing Trump. Not to mention Cologne attacks and simmilar events.
[QUOTE=Knurr;51749909]Why don't You ban Merkel, whose immigration policy put whole EU in danger of collapsing, and directly affected decision on Brexit and choosing Trump. Not to mention Cologne attacks and simmilar events.[/QUOTE] While Merkel is far from flawless and I do not agree with her policy on refugees, blaming her for Brexit & Trump while claiming her policy is what put the EU 'in danger of collapsing' is retarded, delusional and some extreme scapegoating.
[QUOTE=Knurr;51749909]Why don't You ban Merkel, whose immigration policy put whole EU in danger of collapsing, and directly affected decision on Brexit and choosing Trump. Not to mention Cologne attacks and simmilar events.[/QUOTE] Merkel cocked up, but she did it from a place of empathy, compassion and trying to help. Trump comes from a places of narcissism and fearmongering. That counts for a lot, at least for me.
The petition isn't to ban Trump from visiting, its to stop it being a state visit. He can come over and talk with our government no problem. But we shouldn't be rolling out the red carpet for this dicksneeze.
I respect everyone's opinion on this and totally understand why you'd want to block this, but I don't know if I can condone less international unity right now...
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51751604]I respect everyone's opinion on this and totally understand why you'd want to block this, but I don't know if I can condone less international unity right now...[/QUOTE] We aren't saying we don't want to remain allies with the US. We just don't want to sit our Queen in the same room as Trump.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;51751604]I respect everyone's opinion on this and totally understand why you'd want to block this, but I don't know if I can condone less international unity right now...[/QUOTE] Basically what RainbowStalin said. We stand in solidarity with Americans, but denounce this new administration and condemn all its actions. The sooner America ousts it, the better.
Before anyone gets the impression that the entire country opposes this visit, almost all of the signatories are from London alone and London is generally pretty out of step with the rest of the UK public opinion wise. [img_thumb]https://i2.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/trump-1.jpg?w=535&ssl=1[/img_thumb] [QUOTE=RainbowStalin;51751674]We just don't want to sit our Queen in the same room as Trump.[/QUOTE] The Queen has been in the same room as Mugabe and the Chinese Premier. 2 figures which are popularly considered far worse than Trump.
[url=https://www.facebook.com/ATTNVideo/videos/1655606001411021]The UK Parliament is debating whether President Trump should be banned from visiting the UK after his refugee and travel ban.[/url]
[QUOTE=The mouse;51751752]Before anyone gets the impression that the entire country opposes this visit, almost all of the signatories are from London alone and London is generally pretty out of step with the rest of the UK public opinion wise. [img_thumb]https://i2.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/trump-1.jpg?w=535&ssl=1[/img_thumb] The Queen has been in the same room as Mugabe and the Chinese Premier. 2 figures which are popularly considered far worse than Trump.[/QUOTE] given london accounts for nearly 1/5 of england's population (a bit more than 1/8 of UK) I think it's worth considering how 'london alone' measures up as part of the people's voice. this is also about making a statement about his dumb ban, regardless of his overall popularity
[QUOTE=The mouse;51751752]Before anyone gets the impression that the entire country opposes this visit, almost all of the signatories are from London alone and London is generally pretty out of step with the rest of the UK public opinion wise. [img_thumb]https://i2.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/trump-1.jpg?w=535&ssl=1[/img_thumb] The Queen has been in the same room as Mugabe and the Chinese Premier. 2 figures which are popularly considered far worse than Trump.[/QUOTE] This is stupid Visit the official map on the petition page [editline]30th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Shadow801;51751815]This is stupid Visit the official map on the petition page[/QUOTE] 1.5 mil
[QUOTE=dai;51751807]given london accounts for nearly 1/5 of england's population (a bit more than 1/8 of UK) I think it's worth considering how 'london alone' measures up as part of the people's voice. this is also about making a statement about his dumb ban, regardless of his overall popularity[/QUOTE] The point is that it highlights a serious demographic bias in the petition, overrepresenting the views of an otherwise very narrow section of society.
[QUOTE=The mouse;51751839]The point is that it highlights a serious demographic bias in the petition, overrepresenting the views of an otherwise very narrow section of society.[/QUOTE] "1/8 of the total UK population" "Very narrow section"
[QUOTE=_Axel;51751885]"1/8 of the total UK population" "Very narrow section"[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that all of London is a narrow section of society. I'm saying that London has a disproportionately high number of people from a narrow section of society (Wealthy, Highly educated and Metropolitan people) in relation to the rest of the country.
[QUOTE=The mouse;51751952]I'm not saying that all of London is a narrow section of society. I'm saying that London has a disproportionately high number of people from a narrow section of society (Wealthy, Highly educated and Metropolitan people) in relation to the rest of the country.[/QUOTE] Oh, right. Regardless, aren't petitions for the government considered by the parliament if popular enough? That's where the process becomes representative. I don't think it matters much that the people signing the petition don't come from a diverse enough background, the point of petitions is simply to show that lots of people care, not to show what a representative sample of the population thinks.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51751987]Oh, right. Regardless, aren't petitions for the government considered by the parliament if popular enough? That's where the process becomes representative. I don't think it matters much that the people signing the petition don't come from a diverse enough background, the point of petitions is simply to show that lots of people care, not to show what a representative sample of the population thinks.[/QUOTE] I think the subject is debated in parliament at 100,000 signatures. Needless to say that target got blown the fuck out.
[QUOTE=The mouse;51751952]I'm not saying that all of London is a narrow section of society. I'm saying that London has a disproportionately high number of people from a narrow section of society (Wealthy, Highly educated and Metropolitan people) in relation to the rest of the country.[/QUOTE] When did this become an acceptable complaint against votes? [I]"Woah, 62% voted X, let's find out where they live and use the fact that they're predominantly gathered in one arbitrarily marked landmass to say that their opinion doesn't matter!"[/I] A million people is a million people.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;51751999]When did this become an acceptable complaint against votes? [I]"Woah, 62% voted X, let's find out where they live and use the fact that they're predominantly gathered in one arbitrarily marked landmass to say that their opinion doesn't matter!"[/I] A million people is a million people.[/QUOTE] To be fair, petitions aren't like votes in that they don't represent opposite viewpoints.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51752016]To be fair, petitions aren't like votes in that they don't represent opposite viewpoints.[/QUOTE] Tell that to the people that set up the "counter petition" to support Trump's visit.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;51751999]When did this become an acceptable complaint against votes? [I]"Woah, 62% voted X, let's find out where they live and use the fact that they're predominantly gathered in one arbitrarily marked landmass to say that their opinion doesn't matter!"[/I] A million people is a million people.[/QUOTE] Nationalism driving a wedge between increasingly divergent political camps. In the American context the left has generalized the left and the midwest as backwards rednecks who oppose progress and egalitarianism in the name of Jesus and their firearms. Now with the geographically skewed upsets of Brexit and Trump's election the right has caught up and sees the left as out of touch urbanite yuppies who prioritize virtue signalling above practical, pragmatic policy.
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