Meat And Masculinity: Men May Avoid Vegetarian Options Over Manly Perception Of Meat
253 replies, posted
[QUOTE=thisispain;36026441]appeal to instinct?
that's like saying being monogamous is ignoring your base instinct, it doesn't really mean anything.
still not seeing the part where we don't get that special pass. we ignore instincts everyday.[/QUOTE]
The thing about instinct is that most people still obey it when it comes to diet, there's no reason to change it for the average person since it works, whereas a vegetarian may dislike the taste or disagree with eating meat on ethical grounds.
We have no reason to not be omnivores dude, we have an omnivores digestive system, we have grinding teeth and slicing teeth, we are made to eat both meat and vegetables and your average person is more than content to just eat both. I'm not saying that there's a correct way to eat, I'm just saying that evolutionarily we have the ability and inclination to eat both.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36026459]they are kind of gross to eat unless you fry them, plus they look quite objectionable.[/QUOTE]
I guess it's more of a preference then.
[quote]because one's bad for my digestive system and the other one isn't.[/quote]
:raise:
Could be referring to mercury contamination I suppose, but other than that I'm 99.9% sure that just about all fish and seafood is incredibly good for you. Hell, eating a diet of nothing but seafood and seaweed would probably be one of the healthiest possible diets, were it not for potential heavy metal (:rock:) contamination.
[QUOTE=icemaz;36026500]brb having to change my biography of you.[/QUOTE]
that's kind of creepy.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36026509]I guess it's more of a preference then.[/QUOTE]
well preferences in diet aren't exactly unheard of.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36026509]:raise:
Could be referring to mercury contamination I suppose, but other than that I'm 99.9% sure that just about all fish and seafood is incredibly good for you. Hell, eating a diet of nothing but seafood and seaweed would probably be one of the healthiest possible diets, were it not for potential heavy metal (:rock:) contamination.[/QUOTE]
no it's animal meat that bothers my stomach.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36026510]that's kind of creepy.[/QUOTE]
I hit the 50 page milestone about a week ago.
Indeed, it's the plant meat that bothers me
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36026537]Indeed, it's the plant meat that bothers me[/QUOTE]
What a rib tickler.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36026503]The thing about instinct is that most people still obey it when it comes to diet, there's no reason to change it for the average person since it works, whereas a vegetarian may dislike the taste or disagree with eating meat on ethical grounds.[/QUOTE]
diet is pretty much 99% controlled by social attitudes. heavy emphasis or any emphasis on meat is pretty much a western phenomenon rooted in farming practices.
take for instance India where a huge amount of the population is completely vegetarian so this instinct seems incredibly easy to ignore.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36026503]We have no reason to not be omnivores dude, we have an omnivores digestive system, we have grinding teeth and slicing teeth, we are made to eat both meat and vegetables and your average person is more than content to just eat both. I'm not saying that there's a correct way to eat, I'm just saying that evolutionarily we have the ability and inclination to eat both.[/QUOTE]
okay i'm not even telling you to not eat meat, it's just kind of silly to say that you eat meat for any other reason besides "i like how it tastes".
for instance, you don't have grinding or slicing teeth.
you have incisors for sheering, canines for fighting or holding, premolar to aid chewing, and molar to grind food on. plenty of herbivores share this set of teeth.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36026194]no because you're applauding a piece of meat.
that's weird i don't give a fuck how lean, juicy, tender, high-grade or whatever the fuck it is[/QUOTE]
There's nothing strange about appreciating a specific type of meat. Really lean, juicy and tender meat is quite the amazing thing and it's usually quite expensive, but to most people who eat meat (including me) it's worth it in every way because of the superior eating experience.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;36026580]diet is pretty much 99% controlled by social attitudes.[/QUOTE]
That exact argument can be used to say that the vegetarian diet is wrong. Most vegetarians I know are vegetarians because of social status or attitude. The only one who wasn't like that was an indian guy who wouldn't eat meat because he wasn't used to it and said it made him sick. Then he started eating meat and everything was good
[QUOTE=Eric95;36026618]
That exact argument can be used to say that the vegetarian diet is wrong.[/QUOTE]
diets can't be wrong unless they are detrimental to your health.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Eric95;36026618]There's nothing strange about appreciating a specific type of meat. Really lean, juicy and tender meat is quite the amazing thing and it's usually quite expensive, but to most people who eat meat (including me) it's worth it in every way because of the superior eating experience[/QUOTE]
that's wonderful i'm happy for you
i was just poking fun at him for being very excited about meat.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36026580]diet is pretty much 99% controlled by social attitudes. heavy emphasis or any emphasis on meat is pretty much a western phenomenon rooted in farming practices.
take for instance India where a huge amount of the population is completely vegetarian so this instinct seems incredibly easy to ignore.
okay i'm not even telling you to not eat meat, it's just kind of silly to say that you eat meat for any other reason besides "i like how it tastes".
for instance, you don't have grinding or slicing teeth.
you have incisors for sheering, canines for fighting or holding, premolar to aid chewing, and molar to grind food on. plenty of herbivores share this set of teeth.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I didn't realise that there was a difference between sheering and slicing in this regard, and your right, I use my canines for holding and tearing bites off of tough food and I use my molars to soften up and grind down food for my stomach.
[quote]According to the 2006 Hindu-CNN-IBN State of the Nation Survey,[11] 31% of Indians are vegetarians, while another 9% consumes eggs.[/quote]
While a lot of people in India are indeed vegetarian, the vast majority of people still eat meat.
[QUOTE=ironman17;36026129]Personally I can't see the appeal of a vegetarian option; I kinda perceive vegetarianism as a weakness or a mutation, an abnormality on so many levels. Unless you can't even digest cooked meat or have an allergy to meat in general (in which case why are you still in the gene pool), there's no reason to be a vegetarian. If it's for moral reasons it's kinda pathetic; omnivores eat flesh as well, it is an inexorable aspect of nature and you WILL succumb to the joys of carnivorism; the succulent sausage-nipples, the tender beef curtains, the firm yet filling pork sword! *DISCLAIMER: not to be confused or associated with cannibalism, which is about as ethical as Professor Genki drinking an infant and puppie smoothie to wash down the pan-fried souls of the innocent*
In other words, eating meat is sexy, and unless you're a eunuch there's no reason not to. However if the moral reasons concern animal welfare, your concerns are legit; an animal should have a good and ethical life before we consume its flesh, they're essentially condemned to serve us by being served to us, so they might as well have a good quality state of existence before they give up their lives for our benefit. But regardless, if you're veggie for reasons associated with animal cruelty, simply don't eat the flesh of those that have suffered; stick to the meats of animals who lived long and happy lives.
As for vegans, they're mutant abominations in general; disavowing all kinds of animal product for reasons incomprehensible, though likely they're competing with vegetarians for the "World's Biggest Losers Awards", and currently they get the extra-special [B]PLATINUM[/B] Medal, since their overall failure in life and abhorrent hipsterism is so great that we invented an award higher even than the gold medal just for their extra-special pinnacle of failure. Damn weaklings.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Faren;36025270]The argument for animals' suffering due to farming is bullshit. Even if you only grow crops, you still remove all of the wild land that animals once lived in (one of the largest causes of extinction is loss of habitat; your fields of wheat were once areas where wild animals lived).
However, I don't eat red meat because of how inefficient and wasteful the entire industry is. It takes over a dozen times more water and other resources to produce things like beef and pork than it does most vegetables, and while white meats are still more costly than veggies, the waste is not nearly as bad. Maybe this isn't as important an issue in countries where water is less scarce and land is more suited to grazing, but in my country (Australia) half the country is constantly in drought and our land is extremely poorly suited to farming animals on it (it damages the land extensively, even more so than it does in other parts of the world).
Besides, white meat is far better for you than red meat, especially when you take into account the copious amounts that people tend to eat in modern society.
If you want to get more educated about this issue instead of just spouting, "Vegetarians are lethargic sissies, bacon-eater master race!" or "You meat eaters are all fat fucks, I'm fitter than all of you and I don't even eat meat." then you should look through some scientific journals for information on agriculture and its water footprint.[/QUOTE]
What's with straight up ignoring vegetarians (etc.) other than the ones that are all, "Meat is murder!"?
Do people do it because it's easier to argue against it or is it just because people like that tend to be more vocal about their lifestyle?
Taking a moral objection to meat (or certain kinds of it) does not only mean you want to stop their suffering (although I would like it if we could live without causing pain to anything else). There are other reasons, so stop choosing the one that's easiest to make fun of.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36026743]Sorry I didn't realise that there was a difference between sheering and slicing in this regard[/QUOTE]
sheering is definitely preferable to slicing when it comes to chewing.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36026677]diets can't be wrong unless they are detrimental to your health.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
that's wonderful i'm happy for you
i was just poking fun at him for being very excited about meat.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but did you did start getting realllly anal about some stuff :colbert:
And yeah as long as you eat the right stuff then vegetarianism won't have any detriments to your health, it just gets a bad rap cause of folk like Peta and folk who are retarded and end up missing out on a lot of the stuf they need in their diet.
Same thing goes for meat though, a lot of folk miss out on vital minerals and vitamins that just aren't present in high enough levels.
[QUOTE=Faren;36026756]What's with straight up ignoring vegetarians (etc.) other than the ones that are all, "Meat is murder!"?
[/QUOTE]
you're responding to someone who thinks Oscar Wilde prose is suitable for forums.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;36026768]Yeah but did you did start getting realllly anal about some stuff :colbert:[/QUOTE]
blame boredom.
[QUOTE=Eric95;36026618]There's nothing strange about appreciating a specific type of meat. Really lean, juicy and tender meat is quite the amazing thing and it's usually quite expensive, but to most people who eat meat (including me) it's worth it in every way because of the superior eating experience.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
That exact argument can be used to say that the vegetarian diet is wrong. Most vegetarians I know are vegetarians because of social status or attitude. The only one who wasn't like that was an indian guy who wouldn't eat meat because he wasn't used to it and said it made him sick. Then he started eating meat and everything was good[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure the whole point is that diets aren't wrong as long as you can live off of them healthily.
We are Omnivores. The reason why we grew smart and strong is because we ate both meat and vegetable. Humans would not be able to develop the intelligence we have today had we just became a pure carnivore or herbivore.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36026772]you're responding to someone who thinks Oscar Wilde prose is suitable for forums.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
blame boredom.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough man, I know the feeling ;-;
And what's the difference betwen sheering and slicing in terms of eating?
Eh, I like meat for its taste. Some people don't like it, that's cool with me. Just don't start crying murder if you're a vegan/vegetarian, because that's pretty retarded. I'm pretty sure the [B]farming[/B] industry will not stop existing even if everyone stopped eating meat. Some of you dumbasses act like the only reason we keep cows caged is to kill them later. Heard of something called milk?
A lot of animals produce other stuff than milk, it's not like [B]SENSELESS ANIMAL TORTURE[/B] is gonna stop if you go vegan. Also, buy freerange.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36026483]seriously, probably most animals are herbivores.[/QUOTE]
Which is fine, but [B][U]we[/U][/B] are not. We're omnivores, and we have been for hundreds of thousands of years. It's because of this diet that we grew to be such a phenomenally intelligent species. Remember, vegetarianism is an EXTREMELY new concept (maybe a thousand years old).
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36025378]So let's consume humans, then. We will all inevitably die, why not cannibalize each other? Everything will inevitably die so who gives a shit what happens to them in life?[/QUOTE]
You vegetarians really need to stop suggesting that we start eating humans, because inevitably you'd be the first ones to go.
The lets consume humans argument is silly because it is heavily ingrained in our instincts to not eat other humans (Evolutionary avoidance of disease, and also came along with our helping eachother and such)
Would you like us to disregard that instinct too? To say we should not live by our instincts because we are more intelligent than that, then pick and choose which instincts you want to follow and think everyone else should is silly.
If we're ever in a plane crash and get stranded on a deserted island together, you have my word that I'll bring you back home one way or another.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;36023303]Is this news to anyone?
I'm not usually one to proclaim commercials as sexist, but the most sexist commercial I have widely seen on TV is Campbell's Chunky Soup. Tons of men eating the soup because it has all the "meat guys love". I'm sorry, do women not like meat? That's news to me.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I can't be the only one who initially read "sexist" as "sexiest".
Holy shit, the vegetarian moral-fag display in this thread hurts my head. I'm vegetarian. Big whoop. I'm not going to take a moral high ground over what people eat. Yes, lets get angry at food, hurr de durr. As abhorrent as some of the conditions are that animals are put through for slaughter, its certainly better than being eaten alive out in the wild. I don't blame most of you guys for hating on vegetarians, the hissy-fit high-horse master-race vegetarians in this thread have given you good reason.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;36024354]These are the only kind of vegetarians I hate, you guys are too fucking stupid to realize the fact that animals kill each other in the wild for meat by the thousands each year, the same shit happens in the ocean with fish, if it wasn't for humans domesticated animals like cows and chickens would be hunted down by predators in the wild instead of being safe, fed food, and given medication to prevent diseases.
And yes, I know that quite a few places treat farm animals like shit, but a few people not eating meat isn't going to magically change that, if you're really that hurt by it only buy meat from free range farms.[/QUOTE]
Oh, fuck off. All I said is moral reasons. I don't push my views on anyone and I purposefully didn't give the reasons because no one on this forum can just accept that someone has a different opinion than them and chooses a different lifestyle because of it (unless, of course, they're everything but vegetarians, furries, or bronies).
So seriously, go fuck yourself. All I said was that I'm a vegetarian and that being one doesn't limit you to eating just vegetables to add to the conversation. When asked why, I said "moral reasons."
And then you call me stupid and say that I'm the type you hate. It's asshole like you that make it impossible for people to say anything with an opinion that you don't agree with before you go off on a rant about how we're stupid and retarded and this and that because you simply don't agree. And that's just terrible.
I'm not even opposed to eating meat, I choose not to because [I]I[/I] don't believe that the processes by which we process and raise the animals are sufficiently safe and painless. I don't have any problems with others eating meat, but [I]I CHOOSE[/I] not to eat it because I have moral opposition to giving money and demand for meat that comes from animals who are sufficiently uncomfortable or in pain.
So really, seriously, I say "moral reasons" and you act like a fuckwit and an asshole, and make broad general assumptions, and base your unfounded distaste for people who choose, without affect to you, to act in a way different from you because they have a different opinion than you, and apply those to me without even knowing enough to find out three sentences worth of information first.
Those vegetarians who argue about cannibalism sounds like those anti-gay marriage people who argue about people marrying their dog or whatever.
[QUOTE=Mad.Hatter;36023567][IMG]https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpaAQIluH913wNGuufCN8HOwvADN7knkgpmqfFSuOL9ck5r9CrWQ[/IMG] vs [IMG]https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaObFHqjcR2RQehgpyLXllItOCSoulY4diTtc9agS8WgHnm_p_QA[/IMG][/QUOTE]
There's broccoli and carrots on that plate.
[QUOTE=Faren;36026756]What's with straight up ignoring vegetarians (etc.) other than the ones that are all, "Meat is murder!"?
Do people do it because it's easier to argue against it or is it just because people like that tend to be more vocal about their lifestyle?
Taking a moral objection to meat (or certain kinds of it) does not only mean you want to stop their suffering (although I would like it if we could live without causing pain to anything else). There are other reasons, so stop choosing the one that's easiest to make fun of.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. So tired of people thinking that my vegetarianism means I that I try to 'convert' other people. I don't eat meat, you can if you want. I just think that, given our current level of technological sophistication, that we don't need to eat meat. If we don't need to cause suffering, we shouldn't. It's that simple. Whenever people bring up the evolutionary argument I tell them it's ridiculous because never before did we have the ability to get all the nutrients we need from non-meat sources.
Can I just say.
Who actually gives a single fuck?
I'm gonna keep eating meat, so is every other omnivore in this thread, and every vegetarian is gonna keep being vegetarian.
The debate is a literal waste of time.
if conditions in the wild are horrifying for animals then that's an argument for reducing suffering in the wild, not maintaining it
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.