• Meat And Masculinity: Men May Avoid Vegetarian Options Over Manly Perception Of Meat
    253 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The Calzone;36028917]HOW IT USUALLY GOES: "Hey want to come over to my place and grab a bite to eat?" "Sure, but keep in mind I don't eat meat." "Oh okay cool." "I just don't eat the nasty stuff, and I don't see why you do too." "Yeah okay then." "Seriously, why do you eat that stuff? Can't you think of all the poor animals that are mistreated?"[/QUOTE] This is what I find odd. All but two of the vegetarians I've ever met have been doing it because they want to cut meat out of their diet, not because of moral reasons. Judging by what's been said in this thread and others I'm guessing I've gotten REALLY lucky because vegetarians have a stereotype of being really obnoxious and pushy with their choice. It's because of this I don't think lab-grown meat will be that popular. I've never eaten it and thus wont be able to digest it 'happily' in normal quantities so it's a no for me :v:
For dinner I made pork chops, potatoes (filled with corn), tomatoes, and cole slaw. Just my part in bringing together meat and veggies to the table and leaving all satisfied.
[QUOTE=Van-man;36033178]What if it's horribly inefficient to produce even compared to meat from well treated farm animals?[/QUOTE] Then keep on lining up those cows.
[QUOTE=dass;36031123]Because killing and eating a person is the same as killing an animal. Exact same right?[/QUOTE] I've heard that human tastes either like veal, or like horse. I mean Jeffrey Dahmer must be considered a pretty credible source, considering that he usually ate his boyfriends. I'm not sure I could handle dating something I plan to eat though, I have enough trouble preparing my food as it is.
[QUOTE=markg06;36031317]Do you just not eat any vegetables at all? I mean I'm not the biggest fan of them but I at least have potatoes, peas and carrots.[/QUOTE] Of course I do. I don't mind eating stringed carrot in my salad, gives it some more taste even. I can't eat peas however. Don't ask me why, sometimes its not only the taste, its also something in my head. They just look, weird... Maybe somewhat disgusting. I don't know... For example, I hate beet, peas, that thing with the huge thick leaves that snails love to eat, and some more. The thing I hate the most is beans. Holy FUCK I hate them... I can't even go into the kitchen when my granma is making something with them, the smell alone is absolutely disgusting. I'd rather eat in a fresh shit smeared bathroom than in a kitchen filled with the smell of beans, and when I was really young, I'd automatically throw up soup with any traces of beans in it. They forced it down my throat, and then I sprayed it all over them... And potatoes aren't vegetables, they are tuberous, but yes, I do eat them aswell. LOVE them in a roast. [editline]21st May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Daemon;36031466]Right... Killing something isn't the same as killing something else. Stop the strawman nonesense please.[/QUOTE] And here I thought killing a bug or a bear or anything that you can hunt wasn't the same as killing a person... [editline]21st May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Simski;36034342]I've heard that human tastes either like veal, or like horse. I mean Jeffrey Dahmer must be considered a pretty credible source, considering that he usually ate his boyfriends. I'm not sure I could handle dating something I plan to eat though, I have enough trouble preparing my food as it is.[/QUOTE] Besides, you're basically killing a person. Nobody is gonna give a shit if you killed a cow and then ate it. Its a cow. Cows eat, shit, breed and sleep. They don't even have rights like us, no intelligence like us, nothing that would make them an individual. You don't eat a cat or a dog (if you aren't a sick bastard) because those are pets and we have domesticated them. You don't eat a person (even if that person is a retard, saying this in case some smart ass counters with it) because they are living beings like us.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;36024354]These are the only kind of vegetarians I hate, you guys are too fucking stupid to realize the fact that animals kill each other in the wild for meat by the thousands each year, the same shit happens in the ocean with fish, if it wasn't for humans domesticated animals like cows and chickens would be hunted down by predators in the wild instead of being safe, fed food, and given medication to prevent diseases. And yes, I know that quite a few places treat farm animals like shit, but a few people not eating meat isn't going to magically change that, if you're really that hurt by it only buy meat from free range farms.[/QUOTE] Cows and chickens would not exist if it were not for Humans.
We must kill animals because we must eat meat. We must eat meat because we are omnivores and if we stop our bodies won't construct correctly and lose some immunities that we have developed and that allow us to thrive in different lands. There have been several recordings of people who maintained a vegetarian life style through pregnancies have children that grow up with muscle deficiencies. I had the displeasure of meeting a girl with one. She said(and looked like) she was 19 but moved like a woman of 91. More over you choosing to not eat an animal doesn't save any. That fish will still be caught and that cow will still be butchered. All it comes down to is self righteousness that helps you sleep at night because you have this idea in your head that your helping make the world right even through your life style. What you have succeeded in doing is extremely inefficiant and pointless unless you FORCE several others to partake in your style of life. You can't judge an animals way of life by a human's way of life. This is the same for judging different cultures. The reason is because, as far as science has recorded, animals don't have morality. They kill an animal, eat and [B]MOVE THE FUCK ON[/B] without second thought. It would as if though they accept they will die. Before someone generalizes this no that doesn't mean they want to die it just means they don't worry about the ramifications of what they did. What you are doing is more un-natural and counter productive to the continuation of the food-chain and the life of other animals. Do you know what is funny about all of this though. Vegetarianism was a religious idea of the east and is now a luxury of the misguided in 1st world. If you look at an 3rd world country you will not find any vegetarians. It is done because people of the luxury to choose what foods they will and won't have because there is so much here. Now if there weren't enough food to go around I wonder how many Vegitarians we would still have.
[QUOTE=dass;36035385] And here I thought killing a bug or a bear or anything that you can hunt wasn't the same as killing a person... [/QUOTE] Nobody, 1.0001% of the movement that might be arguing about meat eating isn't arguing about insects or non-sentient life. I mean you don't see them worried about bacteria cultures or something where you'd see people sitting there having protest over yogurt or something. There is nothing meritorious about human beings than over other animals. You judge the credablity and integratiy of an organisms sentience based on whether or not you can paper train it. That's your definition of a meritouris creature and so if theres some human retard shitting his pants right now we should have him for dinner because he doesn't matter anymore . We can put him in a cage where he can't even turn around right etc.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;36024354]These are the only kind of vegetarians I hate, you guys are too fucking stupid to realize the fact that animals kill each other in the wild for meat by the thousands each year, the same shit happens in the ocean with fish, if it wasn't for humans domesticated animals like cows and chickens would be hunted down by predators in the wild instead of being safe, fed food, and given medication to prevent diseases. And yes, I know that quite a few places treat farm animals like shit, but a few people not eating meat isn't going to magically change that, if you're really that hurt by it only buy meat from free range farms.[/QUOTE] But animals killing each other in the wild is the circle of life. As human beings we've bested our animal instincts , we know better. We understand that they too feel pain and eating them is not needed for our survival. As people we should be using our intelligence for compassion, not pleading ignorance and murdering them anyway.
Actually, many scientists believe that what caused apes to evolve into the complex creatures that we are are the nutrients gained from eating meat. A variety of nutrients are extremely good for us, and I think we pretty much have to eat meat. [editline]21st May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Whitebowl;36036681]But animals killing each other in the wild is the circle of life. As human beings we've bested our animal instincts , we know better. We understand that they too feel pain and eating them is not needed for our survival. As people we should be using our intelligence for compassion, not pleading ignorance and murdering them anyway.[/QUOTE] We aren't pleading ignorance, we are pleading a dietary need.
[QUOTE=GunFox;36032246]Can't have a world of vegetarians. Simply not enough farmland for it to be viable. Farm animals are fed grass, a substance we literally lack the enzymes to break down for calories, and products from crops that are deemed unfit for human consumption. We, like everything else, are solar powered. Everything goes back to plants. They are solar plants that turn sunlight into sugar. Humans can in turn eat the plants we possess the means to digest and pull the sugar out of the plant matter and place it directly into our systems. HOWEVER. As I said, animals possess the means to consume things we do not and in many cases a very limited variety of plants are capable of growing in a region. Whether this is due to the geography, the climate, or simply the content of the soil, it all boils down to it being square footage that is unusable for producing food calories for human consumption. This is where livestock enter the picture. Since they CAN convert those calories into a usable form, they serve as an intermediary and make unusable terrain usable again for food production. There are vast swaths of the world which are fantastic for cattle production, but virtually useless as farmland. Cut those out and we starve. The energy consumed needs to match the energy produced and simple math prevents mankind from cutting animal flesh out of our diet any time in the near future. People can argue ideals all they want, but in the real world, animal products are necessary if we wish not to die. Placing too much faith in the superiority of mankind's capabilities is a grave error. We are not magical and are still subject to precisely the same restrictions as the rest of the animal kingdom.[/QUOTE] I'd like a source on this. Farmland produces much more food per square foot than cattle farms do. [editline]21st May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lord_Ragnarok;36036696]Actually, many scientists believe that what caused apes to evolve into the complex creatures that we are are the nutrients gained from eating meat. A variety of nutrients are extremely good for us, and I think we pretty much have to eat meat. [editline]21st May 2012[/editline] We aren't pleading ignorance, we are pleading a dietary need.[/QUOTE] You don't need to eat meat to survive and not eating red meat actually increases your life span.
[QUOTE=newbs;36023590]I'm a vegetarian but I'm fitter than half of you motherfuckers out there. Besides, all that muscle turns to fat when you get old and lazy.[/QUOTE] i bet ur actually fat and greasy and gross irl lmao
[QUOTE=Lord_Ragnarok;36036696] We aren't pleading ignorance, we are pleading a dietary need.[/QUOTE] dietary need isn't a catch-all.
I'm not too sure where all the controversy over the killing of animals via slitting the throat comes from. It's making an incision in the major veins and arteries in the neck. It causes massive blood loss, meaning almost instant unconsciousness. There is no agonized suffering or any of that stuff. It's the same thing as cutting the head off of a chicken.
[QUOTE=Whitebowl;36036708]You don't need to eat meat to survive and not eating red meat actually increases your life span.[/QUOTE] Here's the thing though: we're designed to eat meat. We're an omnivorous species, and we always have been. Hell, as Lord_Ragnarok said, it's possible and even likely that humanity would not exist if we did not evolve to eat meat. Believe it or not, meat-eating has been linked to intelligence, and we're all but certain that our brains grew as large as they are because we started eating meat. Humans are always going to be animals, and there's really no sense in denying that. We're animals, we crave sustenance, and meat is EXTREMELY good for us, as is a nicely balanced diet that includes vegetables and other plant life.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;36032618]And how do vegetarians feel about lab grown meat?[/QUOTE] Probably no strict consensus on it. Not to be close minded but the only people who could possibly morally object to the concept of lab-grown meat are fucking tools. So much of the meat products on the food market are so heavily processed they barely resemble something that came from an animal anyways. May as well just grow meat slabs directly instead of raising animals, killing them, and turning their meat into meat slabs.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36036833]Here's the thing though: we're designed to eat meat. We're an omnivorous species, and we always have been. Hell, as Lord_Ragnarok said, it's possible and even likely that humanity would not exist if we did not evolve to eat meat. Believe it or not, meat-eating has been linked to intelligence, and we're all but certain that our brains grew as large as they are because we started eating meat. Humans are always going to be animals, and there's really no sense in denying that. We're animals, we crave sustenance, and meat is EXTREMELY good for us, as is a nicely balanced diet that includes vegetables and other plant life.[/QUOTE] But why eat meat now in this day and age? It's ridiculously easy to eat healthy without animals in your diet. We no longer kill other animals for survival, but for satisfaction, and that's what bugs me.
[QUOTE=Whitebowl;36036874]But why eat meat now in this day and age? It's ridiculously easy to eat healthy without animals in your diet. We no longer kill other animals for survival, but for satisfaction, and that's what bugs me.[/QUOTE] Why eat meat in this day and age? Because it's good for us! It's an integral part of our diet. It would take hundreds, if not thousands of years to adapt to an all-vegan diet, and vegetarianism is such a new concept (perhaps 1200 years old) that we honestly don't know if that would be good for us. Hell, some scientists believe it might reduce our overall intelligence. Also, I can honestly say that we do not kill animals just for satisfaction. We kill them because eating meat is healthy.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36036906]Why eat meat in this day and age? Because it's good for us! It's an integral part of our diet. It would take hundreds, if not thousands of years to adapt to an all-vegan diet, and vegetarianism is such a new concept (perhaps 1200 years old) that we honestly don't know if that would be good for us. Hell, some scientists believe it might reduce our overall intelligence. Also, I can honestly say that we do not kill animals just for satisfaction. We kill them because eating meat is healthy.[/QUOTE] But everything you get from meat, you can get from other foods as well. If you can link me to a source backing up your claims I would be interested in reading it. [editline]21st May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;36036892]You do realize pretty much everything humans do now is for satisfaction or personal gain, and not for survival right? Do you think we put spices in our food and cook according to recipes for survival? Do you think we went to the moon purely for survival? I mean Jesus fuck you're so naive, doing things for "survival" went out the window a century ago.[/QUOTE] So your satisfaction is more important than the life of an animal?
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;36024768][I]That[/I] I don't see as terribly bad (excluding when photoshop is horribly misused) as it is a reinforcement of n[B]atural differences in strength as well as natural heterosexual preferences.[/B][/QUOTE] There is nothing natural about being attracted to very skinny women. It's all culture. Women can also easily be stronger than most women are, because women aren't supposed to be strong in our culture.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;36036982]Yes, that's how reality works, you can't make something worthwhile without something else taking a hit, you can't build a town without cutting down a lot of trees, you can't continuously farm land or else it'll become a barren wasteland unless you do it a certain way, there are a lot of things you cannot do without something else paying for it. In the grand scheme of things some cows dying is far FAR less important then the ocean being polluted by oil companies or fish species being fished to extinction.[/QUOTE] Our fishing problem could be solved not eating fish. About cutting down trees for towns, I'm okay with it as long as the trees are replanted. Personally I find it disgusting that your comfort and satisfaction take trump over the life of a living creature. It's not okay for someone to murder you because you're inconveniencing them, this is no different.
[QUOTE=Whitebowl;36037012]Our fishing problem could be solved not eating fish. About cutting down trees for towns, I'm okay with it as long as the trees are replanted. Personally I find it disgusting that your comfort and satisfaction take trump over the life of a living creature. It's not okay for someone to murder you because you're inconveniencing them, this is no different.[/QUOTE] Right, but you're equating the murder of a human being to killing a chicken for food. I don't care what kind of logic you use, but you can NOT put the two on the same level. I understand the "all life is sacred" argument, but it's pure naivete to believe that we're equal to all other animals because...well, we're not. We didn't get to the top of the food chain by being equal to all other animals, we got there because we evolved to be superior.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36037034]Right, but you're equating the murder of a human being to killing a chicken for food. I don't care what kind of logic you use, but you can NOT put the two on the same level. I understand the "all life is sacred" argument, but it's pure naivete to believe that we're equal to all other animals because...well, we're not. We didn't get to the top of the food chain by being equal to all other animals, we got there because we evolved to be superior.[/QUOTE] While I agree human life is more important than the life of other animals, that doesn't make it okay for us to kill them because it pleases us. Thats the point I'm trying to make. Let me try a better example, it's wrong to kill your neighbors dog because it barks, but it's totally fine to kill a cow because we enjoy how it tastes. It doesn't make sense to me.
[QUOTE=Whitebowl;36036937]But everything you get from meat, you can get from other foods as well. If you can link me to a source backing up your claims I would be interested in reading it. [/QUOTE] Whether or not it's for survival if 100% of people had a vegan diet the human race would essentially be tying a hand behind it's back for no good reason. Animals die, it's what all animals do, and cutting their life just a little bit short is not going to make a difference in the long run. The alternative for would-be livestock would by dying of disease or being killed by other predators in the wild. Meat shouldn't necessarily be the staple food diet of all people, but neither can a 100% vegetable diet be economically feasible, or physically feasible for that matter. It takes an astronomical amount of land and effort to grow enough vegetables in enough variety for every human to eat a healthy diet. Animal's (specifically livestock) on the other hand are walking nutrition factories that can consume plants that are inedible to us and make use of more acidic soils that aren't suitable for farmland. On top of that livestock animals also produce many incredibly useful byproducts; without those our standard of living would be nowhere near as high. Without those animals byproducts, industries such as mining, foresting or oil extraction would be further strained to bridge the gap and those are far more harmful to the earth on the whole.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;36037063]Plants are alive too, where does "all living things are sacred" stop? Do you care about bugs? They feel pain, they're living creatures too.[/QUOTE] I'm glad you brought bugs up, no I don't kill bugs, I let them outside when they find their way into my house, and I avoid stepping on them. Plants don't feel pain, have feelings or even have a nervous system, so I don't have a problem eating them. [editline]21st May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;36037071]That dog was that neighbor's friend and it's death served no purpose, meanwhile that cow's death fed multiple people and the non-edible parts are used in multiple industries.[/QUOTE] But killing the dog has brought you the satisfaction of peace and quiet. The two really aren't so different. [editline]21st May 2012[/editline] The cow feeding multiple people would be a good argument if the people couldn't live off of plant material for cheaper
[QUOTE=Whitebowl;36037087]Plants don't feel pain, have feelings or even have a nervous system, so I don't have a problem eating them. [/QUOTE] Where do you draw the line between a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivalvia"]Bivalve[/URL] and, say, a [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droseraceae]Droseraceae?[/URL] Neither have the capacity to feel pain. Niether have brains, they both operate digestive systems and they both consume living matter.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36037066]Whether or not it's for survival if 100% of people had a vegan diet the human race would essentially be tying a hand behind it's back for no good reason. Animals die, it's what all animals do, and cutting their life just a little bit short is not going to make a difference in the long run. The alternative for would-be livestock would by dying of disease or being killed by other predators in the wild. Meat shouldn't necessarily be the staple food diet of all people, but neither can a 100% vegetable diet be economically feasible, or physically feasible for that matter. It takes an astronomical amount of land and effort to grow enough vegetables in enough variety for every human to eat a healthy diet. Animal's (specifically livestock) on the other hand are walking nutrition factories that can consume plants that are inedible to us and make use of more acidic soils that aren't suitable for farmland. On top of that livestock animals also produce many incredibly useful byproducts; without those our standard of living would be nowhere near as high. Without those animals byproducts, industries such as mining, foresting or oil extraction would be further strained to bridge the gap and those are far more harmful to the earth on the whole.[/QUOTE] This is a much better argument. I'm not purposing a vegan diet though. We could still use land with soil unsuitable for farmland, but instead of eating the animals, we could simply use their bi products, such as milk, eggs, manure.
[QUOTE=Whitebowl;36037087] The cow feeding multiple people would be a good argument if the people couldn't live off of plant material for cheaper[/QUOTE] But it's not cheaper. Vegetables are only cheap because meat is a preferred diet, if vegetables took up 100% of the human diet, far more farmland would need to be used, and transportation costs for the food would be through the roof.
I'm from the South. We eat our vegetables, but only because we fry fucking everything until it's delicious and everybody has a yard big enough for a small farm.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36037133]Where do you draw the line between a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivalvia"]Bivalve[/URL] and, say, a [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droseraceae]Droseraceae?[/URL] Neither have the capacity to feel pain. Niether have brains, they both operate digestive systems and they both consume living matter.[/QUOTE] If they can't feel pain, don't have feelings and can't think independently I wouldn't have a problem with eating them.
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