Republicans Win Again - Organs Taken Away From the Poors - Polidicks

[QUOTE=goon165;26198078]Um, may I ask what fantasy land you inhabit?. They don't get them selves above that because they can't, The old standby "If you work hard, you'll be rewarded" doesn't work anymore. It's more like " whiddle you life away hoping that one day you'll be able to live marginally comfortable, get layed off, die in a gutter."[/QUOTE] Right, so expected to hear "oh it's so hard". Hard work gets rewards, simple as that.

[QUOTE=zombieslaya;26198040]Again implying that they are on their deathbeds and don't have a year or more to wait and not like they weren't already on a waiting list.[/QUOTE] It's not as simple as "did they die yet?" Waiting longer for an organ could lower overall life expectancy greatly. See [url]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090219101702.htm[/url] (4 year life expectancy difference by getting a transplanted kidney quickly) [editline]21st November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198091]Right, so expected to hear "oh it's so hard". Hard work gets rewards, simple as that.[/QUOTE] I work 8-12 hours a day managing my own business and barely get minimum wage. Where is my hard-earned reward?

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198091]Right, so expected to hear "oh it's so hard". Hard work gets rewards, simple as that.[/QUOTE] Haha, where have you been for the last decade?.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26197916]Pff, those countries are sailing along on influx cash, not doing anything of their own. You saw how Iceland crashed, the Scandinavian countries will follow[/QUOTE] Iceland crashed because of financial deregulation making the banks bite off more than they could chew

[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;26198093]It's not as simple as "did they die yet?" Waiting longer for an organ could lower overall life expectancy greatly. See [url]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090219101702.htm[/url] (4 year life expectancy difference by getting a transplanted kidney quickly) [editline]21st November 2010[/editline] I work 8-12 hours a day managing my own business and barely get minimum wage. Where is my hard-earned reward?[/QUOTE] Anecdotes aren't evidence. [QUOTE=ZekeTwo;26198108]Iceland crashed because of financial deregulation making the banks bite off more than they could chew[/QUOTE] Yeah exactly, and it could have been more recoverable if so much funds weren't lost by being sunk into excessive social programs.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198123]Anecdotes aren't evidence.[/QUOTE] Of course, but you're not presenting any evidence for "hard work earns rewards," and it doesn't match any evidence I'm aware of. Miners make poor wages and work back-breaking hours in terrible conditions. Sweat shop workers work in, well, sweat-shop conditions and get practically nothing. CEOs of businesses are pampered and can work no 'harder' than anyone else, yet earn hundred's of people's salaries. Hard work doesn't even vaguely correlate with earnings.

[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;26198138]Of course, but you're not presenting any evidence for "hard work earns rewards," and it doesn't match any evidence I'm aware of. Miners make poor wages and work back-breaking hours in terrible conditions. Sweat shop workers work in, well, sweat-shop conditions and get practically nothing. Hard work doesn't even vaguely correlate with earnings.[/QUOTE] Well not like brute hard work, of course that's not going to get you anywhere. I meant hard work with an aim at progressing, working as smart as you do hard.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198143]Well not like brute hard work, of course that's not going to get you anywhere. I meant hard work with an aim at progressing, working as smart as you do hard.[/QUOTE] So you don't actually mean hard work at all. You mean successful work. But success isn't as simple as what work you put in. There's a lot of circumstance to consider; essentially luck. Connections also help enormously, and aren't easily made.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198123]Anecdotes aren't evidence. Yeah exactly, and it could have been more recoverable if so much funds weren't lost by being sunk into excessive social programs.[/QUOTE] he says after spouting some utter bullshit about Europe

[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;26198163]So you don't actually mean hard work at all. You mean successful work. But success isn't as simple as what work you put in. There's a lot of circumstance to consider; essentially luck. Connections also help enormously, and aren't easily made.[/QUOTE] They are if you put the effort and hard, smart work into making them.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198171]They are if you put the effort and hard, smart work into making them.[/QUOTE] I want to live in your world. What's it like over there?

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26197792]Well maybe they should have planned ahead for such things. Often you don't need an organ transplant immediately, it's a long term prospect.[/QUOTE] Yeah doy! I just keep 148,000$ in my mattress on the off chance something goes wrong with me.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198171]They are if you put the effort and hard, smart work into making them.[/QUOTE] Stop being a multinational corporation CEO apologist No matter how hard you try you will never be in that position, the American Dream is bullshit So stop kidding yourself

[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;26198182]I want to live in your world. What's it like over there?[/QUOTE] Pretty nice, sky is green and the grass is blue [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;26198187]Yeah doy! I just keep 148,000$ in my mattress on the off chance something goes wrong with me.[/QUOTE] Yeah because long term saving plans are totally dumb [QUOTE=ZekeTwo;26198197]Stop being a multinational corporation CEO apologist No matter how hard you try you will never be in that position, the American Dream is bullshit So stop kidding yourself[/QUOTE] That's a very specific sort of apologist. Not just national? And no, it's fun.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198201]Yeah because long term saving plans are totally dumb[/QUOTE] The people on this insurance don't have long term savings anywhere near $148,000! Think more along the lines of $20,000. Seriously, do you have any idea how life is like for >50% of Americans?

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26197682]Two months is plenty time to get the money you need for it. If someone else has the money, why shouldn't they get priority? Just because you got a shitty situation in life doesn't mean you should get a boost up.[/QUOTE] How the hell are you going to get the money for an organ transplant when you're dying?

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198201]Pretty nice, sky is green and the grass is blue Yeah because long term saving plans are totally dumb That's a very specific sort of apologist. Not just national? And no, it's fun.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah long term save up 148,000 fucking dollars, go for it. because that's not an enormous sum of money that most people would never even dream of seeing.

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;26198083]People who have 15 months to live are placed on it expecting to get their organ in 14 months, it's run this way because it's the most efficient way of running the list.[/QUOTE] Two months isn't going to kill them. [quote=Thy Reaper]See [url]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0219101702.htm[/url] (4 year life expectancy difference by getting a transplanted kidney quickly)[/quote] Average wait time for a kidney to become available is 580 days because of the number of people who need one greatly outweighs the number of donors available. Source on that below if you don't believe me. [url]http://www.ohsu.edu/transplant/kidney.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;26198216]The people on this insurance don't have long term savings anywhere near $148,000! Think more along the lines of $20,000. Seriously, do you have any idea how life is like for >50% of Americans?[/QUOTE] I dunno, it seems pretty shitty :smith:

[QUOTE=zombieslaya;26198235]Two months isn't going to kill them. Average wait time for a kidney to become available is 580 days because of the number of people who need one greatly outweighs the number of donors available. Source on that below if you don't believe me. [url]http://www.ohsu.edu/transplant/kidney.html[/url][/QUOTE] My point is faster transplants are better. I don't see how a painfully long waiting time disproves my point...?

[QUOTE=zombieslaya;26198235]Two months isn't going to kill them. [/QUOTE] That's not my point. My point is that they are placed, using a formula, on the list, in a position where at the (estimated) time of getting an organ, they are about to die. Two additional months [i]will[/i] kill at least a few of them. Also, you're missing the other fact that the woman said they would hold a "hearing" about it. Legislative action would likely not occur for several months after this initial hearing, if at all. So it's at least three to four months.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;26198228]Oh yeah long term save up 148,000 fucking dollars, go for it. because that's not an enormous sum of money that most people would never even dream of seeing.[/QUOTE] Aside from the made up argument, this is an actual bad point. Houses are expensive, and most of the ones around me are around that. I don't live in some major upscale area either, just some suburb. $150k over a long period isn't an unreasonably huge amount, certainly not something "most people would never even dream of seeing"

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198171]They are if you put the effort and hard, smart work into making them.[/QUOTE] Ok so riddle me this Batman, A Man works in steel Mill and has work there for 30 years he's feeling optimistic, "just a few more years on the job before I can retire" he says to himself and live out the rest of his life in relative comfort with his wife and kids. then Company who owns the Mill decides to move over seas for cheaper labor costs. Man and his fellow co-workers are all layed off, all those promised rewards for years of hard work and due diligence suddenly all gone. now imagine this his happening everywhere (or if haven't been comatose for the last decade you wouldn't have to), millions of hard working Americans like Man all tossed away like the week's garbage. what then?, where's your great reward then?. Pull your fucking head out of the clouds.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198262]Aside from the made up argument, this is an actual bad point. Houses are expensive, and most of the ones around me are around that. I don't live in some major upscale area either, just some suburb. $150k over a long period isn't an unreasonably huge amount, certainly not something "most people would never even dream of seeing"[/QUOTE] What you're suggesting is that people keep 150k just around spare on the off chance that something goes wrong with them. What does it tell you that these people have to pay for a house to keep alive. it's an amount that people wouldn't dream of just having around.

[QUOTE=goon165;26198269]Ok so riddle me this Batman, A Man works in steel Mill and has work there for 30 years he's feeling optimistic, "just a few more years on the job before I can retire" he says to himself and live out the rest of his life in relative comfort with his wife and kids. then Company who owns the Mill decides to move over seas for cheaper labor costs. Man and his fellow co-workers are all layed off, all those promised rewards for years of hard work and due diligence suddenly all gone. now imagine this his happening everywhere (or if haven't been comatose for the last decade you wouldn't have to), millions of hard working Americans like Man all tossed away like the week's garbage. what then?, where's your great reward then?. Pull your fucking head out of the clouds.[/QUOTE] Yeah multi-national spread of resources is a problem in the current workforce, but I don't see a likely solution to it that would work within the bounds of our system. It's a terrible thing that people get screwed after so much dedication, and i'm not justifying what they do, but what do you expect companies to do otherwise? Human compassion often doesn't make you money, and that's all they're out to get.

[QUOTE=goon165;26197596]way to go Republicans. Hey, didn't they threaten that the Democrats were going to do this with there "socialist" health care?.[/QUOTE] This isn't a republican issue, this is a deficit issue, which effects blue and red states indiscriminately like bullets in Iraq [img]http://paul.kedrosky.com/WindowsLiveWriter/StateDefaultWatchHeatmapofBudgetDeficits_11766/state-heatmaps_4.png[/img] And unlike the Federal Government, States can't just call up the Fed and ask them to print up more money out of thin air to pay for their programs, and unlike Europe, the U.S. government is only willing to bail out fucking banks and auto companies due to the fact they are too fucking corrupt to use Anti-Trust laws to fix their 'too big to fail' problem to maybe think about bailing out these States who are in worst shape budgetly than most east bloc countries in the 1980s

[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;26198259]My point is faster transplants are better. I don't see how a painfully long waiting time disproves my point...?[/QUOTE] It's the fact that fast transplants usually aren't possible anyways due to having to wait for a donor to die and having people who were already waiting ahead of you.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;26198091]Right, so expected to hear "oh it's so hard". Hard work gets rewards, simple as that.[/QUOTE] you didn't work hard enough, sorry you're going to die.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;26198283]What you're suggesting is that people keep 150k just around spare on the off chance that something goes wrong with them. What does it tell you that these people have to pay for a house to keep alive. it's an amount that people wouldn't dream of just having around.[/QUOTE] No, just saying your point about it being an unreasonable amount over a long period was wrong. Yeah it's not something people can easily amount and have to lean on.

[QUOTE=Instant Mix;26197819]That's horrible :O Send him to britain. free healthcare for all[/QUOTE] Didn't NHS effectively collapse in Scotland recently?