Is the GOP's stop Trump campaign too late? Speaker Ryan rules himself out as a last minute nominee
159 replies, posted
I'm on mobile and don't spend enough time posting in SH to know what's considered accurate news or not and that's not the only result I got but w/e I'm too lazy to spend 100 yrs explaining why Trump and his supporters make me uncomfortable. all this is personal preference like I said idk like 4 times now?? If you're trying to convince me to NOT feel unsettled by trump i don't think you'll get very far
Idk what else to tell u buddy! You don't have to adhere to my personal definition of racism lol I'm not your mom.
[QUOTE=Pascall;49959628]I'm on mobile and don't spend enough time posting in SH to know what's considered accurate news or not and that's not the only result I got but w/e I'm too lazy to spend 100 yrs explaining why Trump and his supporters make me uncomfortable. all this is personal preference like I said idk like 4 times now?? If you're trying to convince me to NOT feel unsettled by trump i don't think you'll get very far
Idk what else to tell u buddy! You don't have to adhere to my personal definition of racism lol I'm not your mom.[/QUOTE]
If you don't need proof to back up your political stances that's fine, but why post here then?
Because it's a thread and I was commenting?
Do I need debate pass all of a sudden?
whoa dont get sassy gurl
This is me at my most sassy I'm usually a lot quieter.
[QUOTE=Pascall;49959628]explaining why Trump and his supporters make me uncomfortable[/QUOTE]
You shouldn't even bother, they're simple-minded, easy to trick, stubborn people
[QUOTE=Dr.C;49959147]I'm voting for Nader[/QUOTE]
Nader isn't running in this election.
[QUOTE=orgornot;49959517]As an outside observer, I see Trump and Sanders as the only genuine candidates in this election.
Sanders wants to make America civilized like the rest of the western world with free healthcare, education, etc.
Trump is a billionaire who could just retire and do whatever he wants. Instead he [B]genuinely wants[/B] to help make his country great again. And that means more than whatever false promises other established politicians keep spewing.[/QUOTE]
Genuine? If Trump were any less genuine, he'd start looking sarcastic.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49959214]Did you fail Reading Comprehension 101 in school?
I said Libertarians or Green Party, not Trump. Trump winning is not my fault.[/QUOTE]
Did you fail american history 101 in school?
Because if you and everyone like you who screams "I'm voting third party if sanders loses" does so, you will literally fracture the democratic voterbase and guarantee a GOP victory.
So yes, if you do that, [I]its your fault[/I] if trump wins because if you hadn't jumped ship then your party would still have had a chance in hell of keeping trump from power.
[QUOTE=Tsyolin;49959232]To be honest, as someone that's always aligned more with the GOP than the Dems typically, I would love it of the GOP could fall completely apart and start from scratch. The GOP of today bases their ideals on a United States during the 70s, things have changed and they refuse to adapt which is infuriating.[/QUOTE]
My take:
I'm on the liberal side of things primarily because my impression of conservatives and especially the Republican party is they are locked into the 1950s. In diplomacy, the Cold War mentality has reigned supreme. There is ALWAYS an 'evil' threat to the world which only the US can save. First it was communism and when that fizzled out it became Islam. In social policy, it's like they think only white Christian men are important and everyone else is second class, which was the normal way of thinking before the civil rights/women's lib era.
Now that the country's demographics have shifted quite a bit(gay marriage is a thing, imagine that in the '50s lol), it's like the rug has been pulled out from the Republican party. They need to actually start giving consideration to more than just straight white Christian men and [i]they can't bring themselves to do it![/i]
So someone like Trump steps up. He's going to 'make America great' again. That's code for take it back for white people lol. The Republican establishment is stuck, because that's what they want too, but it's politically impossible for the establishment to say it. The establishment is entrenched in government, that's why they're called the establishment. They know they'd be kicked out of all their seats in Congress if they all acted like Trump. Trump can do it because he has nothing to lose and everything to gain. He's not a Senator, Congressman, Governor or anything, he has no office to lose.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;49959766]Did you fail american history 101 in school?
Because if you and everyone like you who screams "I'm voting third party if sanders loses" does so, you will literally fracture the democratic voterbase and guarantee a GOP victory.
So yes, if you do that, [I]its your fault[/I] if trump wins because if you hadn't jumped ship then your party would still have had a chance in hell of keeping trump from power.[/QUOTE]
Statements like this is why I think alot of people just don't care about other's motivations and just have a huge hard-on to destroy anything that sounds like it would support Trump.
Some people just don't want to vote for Clinton. I actually would vote Libertarian too, but hey your point stands I might aswell just vote for Trump.
Besides Trump winning is hardly a GOP's victory. I wouldn't be surprised if this forces them to radically change for the better.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;49959455]Are you kidding me? The point was to address it from a strictly legal standpoint. Obviously there are humanitarian and just empathetic concerns to be addressed. If you're a JUDGE or more importantly a legislator, they should not be here and it's as simple as that. It's pretty fucking cut and dry if we're talking about the law here.[/QUOTE]
Ya that's kinda what I was getting at. A strictly legal viewpoint is the only way you'll get this shit to sound favorable
[QUOTE=toaster468;49959469]Before I even talk about this point I want to make it clear that Trump has never said ALL migrants are rapists and criminals, however, in the past we have seen South American countries do this (one example is the Mariel boatlift). So what he said actually has some truth. It should also be said that regardless of whether or not Mexico does this maliciously or because of their inability to police the border, criminals and rapists ARE coming to America illegally and it has to be stopped.[/QUOTE]
Why does that make it ok? He wasn't talking about [I]all[/I] of them so that somehow makes insulting the majority of illegals cool with you? But worse, you'll defend a baseless accusation one minute, then turn around and disregard what is a very plausible assumption - that Trump's statement was born out of racist sentiment - as nothing but leftist bias the next
[editline]18th March 2016[/editline]
If you're such a bastion of skepticism, try tackling Trump's factually wrong immigrant tirade, not people's subjective view of his opinions
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;49959766]Did you fail american history 101 in school?
Because if you and everyone like you who screams "I'm voting third party if sanders loses" does so, you will literally fracture the democratic voterbase and guarantee a GOP victory.
So yes, if you do that, [I]its your fault[/I] if trump wins because if you hadn't jumped ship then your party would still have had a chance in hell of keeping trump from power.[/QUOTE]
I won't fracture the vote or jump ship because I was never on the democratic ship to begin with.
I'd vote for Bernie as an individual politician, not because he's on the Democratic ticket. He's an independent just like Trump is an independent. I'm an independent/unaffiliated. So, no it won't be my fault.
If you all decided to vote Green where you could Jill Stein could be our next president, because there is a good chance the GOP throws a independent nominee to stop Trump.
[QUOTE=Tudd;49959802]
Besides Trump winning is hardly a GOP's victory. I wouldn't be surprised if this forces them to radically change for the better.[/QUOTE]
People keep saying this. It's just as likely, if not more so, to send the message to the GOP that running on a platform of demagoguery and pure id is how to stay in power.
Libertarians are Republicans who think weed is okay and want a secular government. They're like the Anarchists of the right, except while Anarchists want to abolish all the systems libertarians want the market system to be the guide. I can respect Anarchists more than I respect Libertarians, Anarchist believe if we abolish the system and abolish private property we will have a truly free society. Libertarians believe markets will guide society when markets are one of the most inherently exploitative beasts on the planet. Both tend to attract edgy kids who hate cops, however I can respect the idealistic pursuits of Anarchism more than the "You can always make it! Bootstraps!" ignorance of the social order of Libertarianism.
[QUOTE=GarbageCan;49959948]Libertarians are Republicans who think weed is okay and want a secular government. They're like the Anarchists of the right, except while Anarchists want to abolish all the systems libertarians want the market system to be the guide. I can respect Anarchists more than I respect Libertarians, Anarchist believe if we abolish the system and abolish private property we will have a truly free society. Libertarians believe markets will guide society when markets are one of the most inherently exploitative beasts on the planet. Both tend to attract edgy kids who hate cops, however I can respect the idealistic pursuits of Anarchism more than the "You can always make it! Bootstraps!" ignorance of the social order of Libertarianism.[/QUOTE]
If you're saying libertarians are all of the same then I guess all Democrats are goldman sach hired crooks and all republicans are wannabe slave owners. Because you could not be more wrong on that.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49959863]I won't fracture the vote or jump ship because I was never on the democratic ship to begin with.
I'd vote for Bernie as an individual politician, not because he's on the Democratic ticket. He's an independent just like Trump is an independent. I'm an independent/unaffiliated. So, no it won't be my fault.[/QUOTE]
In this case you have to look at the overall picture. A third party candidate has no chance of winning, an unfortunate catch 22. They won't win because not enough will vote for them, and not enough will vote for them because they won't win.
If sanders loses, you will ultimately be faced with 1 of 2 choices. The "GOP" madman Trump, or the Democrat and horridly corrupt Hillary.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49959863]
If you all decided to vote Green where you could Jill Stein could be our next president, [B]because there is a good chance the GOP throws a independent nominee to stop Trump.[/B][/QUOTE]
Which would be beyond damaging to the GOP [I]and[/I] would guarantee a democrat victory, they can't throw an independent into play.
Their [I]only hope[/I] of both dislodging Trump [I]AND[/I] denying the democrats the white house would be to find a way to completely remove trump from the GOP nomination. Which would still critically damage the GOP as a party.
The GOP is terrified and completely screwed no matter what they decide to do.
All your Candidates are bad, Your voting is like watching some kind of Comedy Series.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;49959081]I don't get how one person can jump from a far-left Socialist to a far-right Corporatist. Far-left Socialism and far-right Capitalism are diametrically opposing ideologies. So to hear someone say they are going to go from socialist, to pro-corporate tells me the person is inconceivably dumb.[/QUOTE]
I'm voting Trump, and if he doesn't win, my vote's going to Bernie. Then, from there, possibly to McAfee.
Is it possible for someone just to be interested in an anti-establishment candidate who're
A. Not under four federal investigations.
B. Pro-LGBT
C. Anti-TPP
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;49960074]In this case you have to look at the overall picture. A third party candidate has no chance of winning, an unfortunate catch 22. They won't win because not enough will vote for them, and not enough will vote for them because they won't win.
If sanders loses, you will ultimately be faced with 1 of 2 choices. The "GOP" madman Trump, or the Democrat and horridly corrupt Hillary.
Which would be beyond damaging to the GOP [I]and[/I] would guarantee a democrat victory, they can't throw an independent into play.
Their [I]only hope[/I] of both dislodging Trump [I]AND[/I] denying the democrats the white house would be to find a way to completely remove trump from the GOP nomination. Which would still critically damage the GOP as a party.
The GOP is terrified and completely screwed no matter what they decide to do.[/QUOTE]
The reason the third parties don't have a chance is because nobody gives them a chance. People are gobbling up everything CNN, MSNBC, ABC and Fox News tells them and don't bother to research other parties or individuals in their free time.
If the overall picture involves getting the third parties as much as at least 2% to send a message then so be it, I'll endure that four years of Trump. People having been saying your rhetoric in 2012, in 2008, in 2004 and so on. Nothing will change unless we force it to. Electing Hillary is continuing this status quo and allowing it to happen. I will vote Libertarian(unless Johnson doesn't get the nomination, in which case Green.) and will walk out of that ballot with a clear conscience.
[QUOTE=Monkah;49960269]I'm voting Trump, and if he doesn't win, my vote's going to Bernie. Then, from there, possibly to McAfee.
Is it possible for someone just to be interested in an anti-establishment candidate who're
A. Not under four federal investigations.
B. Pro-LGBT
C. Anti-TPP[/QUOTE]
Hold on, you won't vote for Clinton due to ongoing investigations, but you'd consider throwing your vote behind a guy who has been;
A: A person of interest in a murder in Belize, then fled the country
B: Illegally entered Guatemala, requested asylum, was denied, then faked a heart attack to prevent deportation
And C: Has a criminal record in the US after being arrested for a DUI and possession of a firearm while intoxicated.
Like, I don't like Clinton either, but one of your reasons for not voting for her is her record, which McAfee has an absolutely disgusting one. That and the guy is a total nutcase.
The absolutely dumbest kind of people is the one that can't accept that someone else might have different views, and belittles them as a result.
[QUOTE=proch;49960469]The absolutely dumbest kind of people is the one that can't accept that someone else might have different views, and belittles them as a result.[/QUOTE]
even worse is the kind of person that hides behind this preachy banter without looking into criticism
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49960502]even worse is the kind of person that hides behind this preachy banter without looking into criticism[/QUOTE]
Stop doing it then
[QUOTE=proch;49960532]Stop doing it then[/QUOTE]
this hasn't been my only contribution to the thread (can't say the same for you)
[QUOTE=Mingebox;49959910]People keep saying this. It's just as likely, if not more so, to send the message to the GOP that running on a platform of demagoguery and pure id is how to stay in power.[/QUOTE]
yeah, i've said this before, but while trump's run could force the establishment to shape up, or destabilize it just enough to create an opening for more bernie-like candidates, it could also strengthen it
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;49959766]Did you fail american history 101 in school?
Because if you and everyone like you who screams "I'm voting third party if sanders loses" does so, you will literally fracture the democratic voterbase and guarantee a GOP victory.
So yes, if you do that, [I]its your fault[/I] if trump wins because if you hadn't jumped ship then your party would still have had a chance in hell of keeping trump from power.[/QUOTE]
A voter should vote for the candidate they want instead of voting for the candidate that's most likely to win.
The best one was this guy who said other people shouldnt have a different view and opinion and that they shouldnt have freedom of speach.
This vote is like Americas IQ Test.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49960603]A voter should vote for the candidate they want instead of voting for the candidate that's most likely to win.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with you if I lived in Germany.
I don't live in Germany.
[QUOTE=GarbageCan;49959948]Libertarians are Republicans who think weed is okay and want a secular government. They're like the Anarchists of the right, except while Anarchists want to abolish all the systems libertarians want the market system to be the guide. I can respect Anarchists more than I respect Libertarians, Anarchist believe if we abolish the system and abolish private property we will have a truly free society. Libertarians believe markets will guide society when [B]markets are one of the most inherently exploitative beasts on the planet[/B]. Both tend to attract edgy kids who hate cops, however I can respect the idealistic pursuits of Anarchism more than the "You can always make it! Bootstraps!" ignorance of the social order of Libertarianism.[/QUOTE]
[Citation Needed]
Libertarians are people who shun violence and support natural rights. To put it simply, we believe that property rights are inseparably linked to freedom, because it is from the ownership of one's own body that they derive all of their other liberties. I own my body, therefore I am free to use it however I want without using violence on others, and as a result of that I own the products of my labor and the land I develop. Because my property rights are the basis for my liberty, an attack on them (theft) is an act of violence. To defend my life and my property, I can use force (but not violence, because self defense is not defined as violence in any dictionary I have seen).
In addition, I have the right to enter voluntary agreements-contracts, because I can do whatever I want with my property (body, items or land) without initiating violence, and the same is true for whomever I deal with. This is the basis for trade. The Market is not some mysterious concept, it is simply an extension of my rights to own property and to peacefully exchange it for the property of others. In such a voluntary, uncoercive agreement, the two parties obviously consent only if they believe the result benefits them. Value is created for both. Since the market, when it does not cling to government-enforced monopolies and crony capitalism, by definition benefits both parties, it can not be called exploitative.
These concepts come together to form a [B]socially liberal[/B] stance (people can do whatever they want if they are peaceful, which means Libertarians are pro-LGBT, pro-religious freedom and pro-civil liberties), and a [B]fiscally conservative[/B] stance (the government has no right to my property, and if state-sanctioned theft can not be completely stopped, it should be reduced and the state should limit its expenses to the absolute essentials).
You seem to believe that all Anarchists are Anarcho-Communists. You forget about Anarcho-Capitalists (the extreme end of Libertarianism). The two groups share similar, anti-government beliefs, and their only difference is that Anarcho-Communists do not accept the concept of private property. Personally, I find that stance foolish: all it does is replace one tyrant (the government) for another (the mob), because violence is the only way to enforce Anarcho-Communism on those who do not want it. By contrast, an Anarcho-Communist society can freely exist in an Anarcho-Capitalist society. But they are entitled to their position, and any step towards abolishing the state is better than nothing.
But please, do tell us how Libertarians are edgy kids who hate cops. I would love to hear the mental gymnastics one has to go through to justify theft and violence if somebody wears a blue uniform.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;49959081]Some of (a lot on this forum) Bernie Sander's supporters are such hypocrites.
[url]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-on-why-he-wont-run-as-in-independent/[/url]
I don't get how one person can jump from a far-left Socialist to a far-right Corporatist. Far-left Socialism and far-right Capitalism are diametrically opposing ideologies. So to hear someone say they are going to go from socialist, to pro-corporate tells me the person is inconceivably dumb.[/QUOTE]
I think it has a lot to do with a portion of Bernie voters being more interested in upsetting the status quo than voting in the best interests of the country. If they can't have Bernie upsetting the establishment, may as well vote in Trump and see what happens. To be clear, I don't agree with that viewpoint..
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