Biden: "If you want to protect yourself, get a double-barrel shotgun" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39653211]there's no rule saying you have to use them all. personally I'd go with a handgun in a home. good and compact, high retention and kills just as dead as anything else[/QUOTE] personally i think there's too much risk of overpenetration with a pistol (unless it's a .45 or something low-velocity like that) so i'd probably go with a shotgun.

[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;39654841]Just for Dear Leader Joe Biden, I'll design and build a semi-automatic double barrel shotgun that holds 28 rounds, 14 rounds per barrel. If a double barrel shotgun is the best defensive weapon available then this shall be the best self defense weapon of all time.[/QUOTE] Careful with pistol grips and bayonet lugs though, that would just make it more lethal

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39655695][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--qQarisv08[/media][/QUOTE] Ban high capacity double barrel shotguns

[QUOTE=Roger Waters;39655718]personally i think there's too much risk of overpenetration with a pistol (unless it's a .45 or something low-velocity like that) so i'd probably go with a shotgun.[/QUOTE] you should use special frangible ammo for home defense

[QUOTE=Protocol7;39655739]you should use special frangible ammo for home defense[/QUOTE] It really depends where you live. The impression I keep getting is everyone lives in houses that aren't solid brick

I use a High Point .45 for home defense. Nine hollowpoint rounds and I don't miss. If you are even remotely familiar with guns you should only need one, two at most. using an AR-15 is ridiculous not just because of the amount of bullets but because those bullets will penetrate the walls of your house and endanger people around it.in neighboring houses.

[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;39655888]I use a High Point .45 for home defense. Nine hollowpoint rounds and I don't miss. If you are even remotely familiar with guns you should only need one, two at most. using an AR-15 is ridiculous not just because of the amount of bullets but because those bullets will penetrate the walls of your house and endanger people around it.in neighboring houses.[/QUOTE] People don't get AR-15s purely for home defense purposes. If I got an AR-15 I'd get it for shooting it at pieces of paper at a range.

[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;39655888]I use a High Point .45 for home defense. Nine hollowpoint rounds and I don't miss. If you are even remotely familiar with guns you should only need one, two at most. using an AR-15 is ridiculous not just because of the amount of bullets but because those bullets will penetrate the walls of your house and endanger people around it.in neighboring houses.[/QUOTE] Yea, when using NATO greentips. You're clearly are not familiar with guns

[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;39655888]I use a High Point .45 for home defense. Nine hollowpoint rounds and I don't miss. If you are even remotely familiar with guns you should only need one, two at most. using an AR-15 is ridiculous not just because of the amount of bullets but because those bullets will penetrate the walls of your house and endanger people around it.in neighboring houses.[/QUOTE] The [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=100iV8uON-c"].223's penetration isn't all that spectacular[/URL], I highly doubt the bullet will exit my walls (not to forget the brick exterior) and enter my neighbor's house (also a brick house) and hit him.

[QUOTE=download;39655950]Yea, when using NATO greentips. You're clearly are not familiar with guns[/QUOTE] aren't frangibles more expensive than hollowpoints? [editline]20th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Gy.Gray;39656015]The [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=100iV8uON-c"].223's penetration isn't all that spectacular[/URL], I highly doubt the bullet will exit my walls (not to forget the brick exterior) and enter my neighbor's house (also a brick house) and hit him.[/QUOTE] no brick but drywall [URL]http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm[/URL] 12 sheets of material TOUGHER than drywall will not stop a .223

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39656018]aren't frangibles more expensive than hollowpoints?[/QUOTE] Well, greentips aren't hollow points or frangibles. They're a steel cored military round with light armour piercing characteristics (though nothing like tungsten cored stuff). Anyway. If I was concerned about overpenetration, I'd use Hornady V-Maxs or similar. They fragment really easily and they're probably cheaper than speciality defence loads. I can guarantee they'll penetrate less than and .45ACP round bar Glasser rounds

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39656018] no brick but drywall [URL]http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm[/URL] 12 sheets of material TOUGHER than drywall will not stop a .223[/QUOTE] I stand corrected then, I don't use an AR-15 for home defense, I have an M1 Carbine my granddad used in the war

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39656018] no brick but drywall [URL]http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm[/URL] 12 sheets of material TOUGHER than drywall will not stop a .223[/QUOTE] That's the greentip

[QUOTE=download;39656064]That's the greentip[/QUOTE] what are you trying to argue? I'm saying when using standard NATO ammunition the AR15 possesses significant penetration capability, and that frangibles are more expensive than hollowpoints.

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39656094]what are you trying to argue? I'm saying when using standard NATO ammunition the AR15 possesses significant penetration capability, and that frangibles are more expensive than hollowpoints.[/QUOTE] I was addressing claims that AR15s are bad for home defence. I assumed you were posting that as an example of over penetration, so I explained the test was done with FMJ ammunition

[QUOTE=download;39656116]I was addressing claims that AR15s are bad for home defence. I assumed you were posting that as an example of over penetration, so I explained the test was done with FMJ ammunition[/QUOTE] yes with standard FMJ ammunition. I still would say that AR-15s are worse because of increased length in most civilian variants and the expensive of frangible ammunition (not to mention increased cost over a pump action shotgun or pistol)

"It's bad because it costs too much" Pretty terrible argument. They can also be shorter than any shotgun without going into SBR territory, or alternatively, get an SBR

[QUOTE=download;39656300]"It's bad because it costs too much" Pretty terrible argument. They can also be shorter than any shotgun without going into SBR territory, or alternatively, get an SBR[/QUOTE] cost is a consideration for most people, especially for home defense.

[QUOTE=download;39655950] You're clearly are not familiar with guns[/QUOTE] I assumed that immediately after reading [quote]I use a High Point .45 for home defense[/quote]

Thanks Facepunch, now I'll be all set if I ever need to fight a war in my house.

[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;39649623]Police Officers have been making the transition from Shotguns to AR15 Patrol Rifles in their cruisers because they are harder to use and they'll kill less people.[/QUOTE] This is all a plot to give the government the upper hand when they come to wipe us all out!!

[QUOTE=Ninja Duck;39657074]This is all a plot to give the government the upper hand when they come to wipe us all out!![/QUOTE] The point is if shotguns are so much fucking better than an AR15 as biden explicitly states why are our policemen swapping them out for AR15s?

I find it ironic that he's telling people that a shotgun is all they need when he has secret service agents armed with concealed submachine guns around him 24/7.

I'm not trying to be all "oh look at me, videogame knowledge" when I ask this, as it's a genuine question - but would a sawnoff, or any shotgun with a short barrel be any less unwieldy for home defense? I'm thinking any shotgun with a short barrel(s) will be less cumbersome to handle than a lot of carbines or full-length shotguns would. Plus the spread wouldn't be so tight which I'm assuming would be better in a situation like this.

[QUOTE=n0cturni;39657924]I'm not trying to be all "oh look at me, videogame knowledge" when I ask this, as it's a genuine question - but would a sawnoff, or any shotgun with a short barrel be any less unwieldy for home defense? I'm thinking any shotgun with a short barrel(s) will be less cumbersome to handle than a lot of carbines or full-length shotguns would. Plus the spread wouldn't be so tight which I'm assuming would be better in a situation like this.[/QUOTE] Less [I]unwieldy?[/I] Probably. It's really not going to be effective though.

[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;39655888]I use a High Point .45 for home defense. Nine hollowpoint rounds and I don't miss. If you are even remotely familiar with guns you should only need one, two at most. using an AR-15 is ridiculous not just because of the amount of bullets but because those bullets will penetrate the walls of your house and endanger people around it.in neighboring houses.[/QUOTE] You never only use one. Idiots and executioners fire one round. In reality you will probably use four or five. If you are ridiculously practiced and have been in dangerous situations for your occupation, two to three would be the minimum. With a handgun, it is never once. [editline]20th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=BFG9000;39657759]The point is if shotguns are so much fucking better than an AR15 as biden explicitly states why are our policemen swapping them out for AR15s?[/QUOTE] They aren't, in my experience. They just add the AR15 to the shotgun.

[QUOTE=n0cturni;39657924]I'm not trying to be all "oh look at me, videogame knowledge" when I ask this, as it's a genuine question - but would a sawnoff, or any shotgun with a short barrel be any less unwieldy for home defense? I'm thinking any shotgun with a short barrel(s) will be less cumbersome to handle than a lot of carbines or full-length shotguns would. Plus the spread wouldn't be so tight which I'm assuming would be better in a situation like this.[/QUOTE] Yes, but your aim is going to suffer, and their legality varies by state/country.

I don't see how you need a gun to protect yourself. I have a bat. I've never had to use it. Unless you have burglars coming once a month I really don't understand why you need a gun. Get a goddamn alarm.

[QUOTE=deggie;39658022]I don't see how you need a gun to protect yourself. I have a bat. I've never had to use it. Unless you have burglars coming once a month I really don't understand why you need a gun. Get a goddamn alarm.[/QUOTE] What would an alarm accomplish?

[QUOTE=BFG9000;39657759]The point is if shotguns are so much fucking better than an AR15 as biden explicitly states why are our policemen swapping them out for AR15s?[/QUOTE] north hollywood shootout, crooks are using body armor and shotguns suck at defeating that... some of the time.