[QUOTE=Cheezy;25835256]the whole point of incarceration is to keep you separated from society, isn't it?[/QUOTE]
Put your misunderstandings of the situation at the FRONT of the post from now on so I don't have to read the whole thing.
Oh dear, lets just hope we split from the European Union before it devours us completely
In other news, BNP votes have risen through the roof.
[QUOTE=Grimgor13;25835421]Oh dear, lets just hope we split from the European Union before it devours us completely[/QUOTE]
No let's stay with them so they make us a better democratic nation and give us a better currency and bolster our security and military and influence our university fees and improve our economy.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;25835537]No let's stay with them so they make us a better democratic nation and give us a better currency and bolster our security and military and influence our university fees and improve our economy.[/QUOTE]
I know they benefit the economy greatly, but some of their laws are just getting silly.
[QUOTE=Grimgor13;25835711]I know they benefit the economy greatly, but some of their laws are just getting silly.[/QUOTE]
Are you implying this law is "silly"? This is the best law I've seen passed in a long time.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;25835747]Are you implying this law is "silly"? This is the best law I've seen passed in a long time.[/QUOTE]
I spy with my little eye something beginning with "T".
(Troll)
Too bad they didn't get to vote.
[QUOTE=Grimgor13;25835824](Troll)[/QUOTE]
I'm a troll for promoting democracy?
What? Are you fucking kidding me?
[QUOTE=Cheezy;25835256]By breaking the law you are forfeiting your right to vote, if you won't respect the rules that society is trying to uphold, why should you be able to change them?
I'm not saying this applies to all instances, but if you've done something that puts you in jail I honestly don't see why you should get to vote, the whole point of incarceration is to keep you separated from society, isn't it?[/QUOTE]
The ability to vote is a human right in democratic countries. Just because someone is in jail does not mean you should remove (all) their human rights (obviously their right to liberty is lost), you wouldn't suggest taking away their right to food or clean water would you?
[editline]4th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Grimgor13;25835711]I know they benefit the economy greatly, but some of their laws are just getting silly.[/QUOTE]
EU laws have (to the best of my knowledge) to be brought into law by each country, and there are ways for countries to reject individual laws. I do believe this was a promise set out by a political party (Might have been the conservatives, my memory is failing me at this time) during the election as well.
Not to mention this is not a law, it is a ruling by the European court of human rights.
[QUOTE=Jsm;25833989]How is this a step away from justice, how are they being punished any less by having the ability to vote?[/QUOTE]
So we allow people who have broken the rules of the country to have a say in what goes on in that country. How is that justice?
[QUOTE=Jsm;25840035]you wouldn't suggest taking away their right to food or clean water would you?[/QUOTE]
Human rights =/= human needs.
[QUOTE=David29;25840215]So we allow people who have broken the rules of the country to have a say in what goes on in that country. How is that justice?[/QUOTE]
How is it not justice? How does taking away a basic human right help punish them? They are still citizens of the UK, they (like everyone else) have to live with the result of an election so they should be allowed to voice their opinion (through their right to vote).
This is a democracy, everybody (of voting age of course) has the right to vote, if you start excluding groups of people (for what ever reason) from that the country is no longer a democracy. Saying prisoners cannot vote is no different to barring homosexuals from voting.
[QUOTE=David29;25840215]So we allow people who have broken the rules of the country to have a say in what goes on in that country. How is that justice?[/QUOTE]
i think you need to look up what the world justice means. i think the word you were looking for was vengeance.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkrYr-FTyOw[/media]
John Hirst is disgusting.
I'll just say, reform and rehabilitation beats the shit out of the prison system.
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825389]if you commit a crime and end up in jail why should you get the right to vote[/QUOTE]
Some people commit crimes because they cannot find a decent job, or fall upon circumstances similar to that of which I just said. They should not be ignored.
prisoners are really starting to get treated like normal citizens, except the government pays for their food, their housing and if they're in a low security prison the government will give them free education on skilled labour.
[QUOTE=Explosions;25835072]I'm sure the victims of heinous crimes love to hear that the man that raped them or killed their child is now free and making a good amount of money with the free job education he got in prison.[/QUOTE]
They much prefer to hear that he got out of prison and decided to commit more heinous crimes against the loved ones of others. That is a HUGE improvement!
This is the thing that people don't seem to understand: THE VICTIM PLAYS NO PART IN A CRIMINAL COURT CASE. They will appear as a witness, and are generally allowed a statement of some sort in particularly brutal cases, but beyond that they have no hand in criminal proceedings. The case is the GOVERNMENT vs the defendant. The legal system doesn't, and shouldn't, give a flying FUCK what the victim wants.
[QUOTE=Archy;25842661]prisoners are really starting to get treated like normal citizens, except the government pays for their food, their housing and if they're in a low security prison the government will give them free education on skilled labour.[/QUOTE]
Prisoners should be treated like normal citizens, treating them well will help them realize what they did was wrong -- not treating them like scum (that simply builds anger).
[QUOTE=marlkarxv2;25842820]Prisoners should be treated like normal citizens, treating them well will help them realize what they did was wrong -- not treating them like scum (that simply builds anger).[/QUOTE]
Treating them like animals just makes them resent the society that they'll be released back into even more. Not really a smart thing to do
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;25825605]They do have rights! What is wrong with you?! Seriously, this line of thinking is terrifying.[/QUOTE]
No. Have you ever heard of social contracts? Like the one between a state and it's citizens?. We accept and abide by the rules and regulations of the state, and in return we are protected from internal and external threats and gain certain rights and privilegies like the ability to vote in elections, freedom of speech and whatnot. If you break the law, you're breaking the social contract :smug:
yes for prop 19
[QUOTE=Gentlemanne;25848563]No. Have you ever heard of social contracts? Like the one between a state and it's citizens?. We accept and abide by the rules and regulations of the state, and in return we are protected from internal and external threats and gain certain rights and privilegies like the ability to vote in elections, freedom of speech and whatnot. If you break the law, you're breaking the social contract :smug:[/QUOTE]
I can throw out buzzwords too.
Democracy.
Freedom.
Right to Vote.
Mine actually make sense though
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;25848735]I can throw out buzzwords too.
Democracy.
Freedom.
Right to Vote.
Mine actually make sense though[/QUOTE]
Splendid argumentation, you really cut through to the heart of my argument. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Gentlemanne;25848563]No. Have you ever heard of social contracts? Like the one between a state and it's citizens?. We accept and abide by the rules and regulations of the state, and in return we are protected from internal and external threats and gain certain rights and privilegies like the ability to vote in elections, freedom of speech and whatnot. If you break the law, you're breaking the social contract :smug:[/QUOTE]
So you agree with Thomas Hobbes?
[QUOTE=Domokun;25849024]So you agree with Thomas Hobbes?[/QUOTE]
Do you?
[QUOTE=Gentlemanne;25849062]Do you?[/QUOTE]
No I agree with John Locke and his idea of us having natural rights.
[QUOTE=Domokun;25849152]No I agree with John Locke and his idea of us having natural rights.[/QUOTE]
Ahaha, John "Tabula Rasa" Locke? What manner of invisible sky magician has granted you these natural, universal and inviolable rights?
[QUOTE=Gentlemanne;25849193]Ahaha, John "Tabula Rasa" Locke? What manner of invisible sky magician has granted you these natural, universal and inviolable rights?[/QUOTE]
What sky magician? There is no such thing, but can you deny that we don't have the right to "Life,Liberty,Freedom"?
[QUOTE=Domokun;25849255]What sky magician? There is no such thing, but can you deny that we don't have the right to "Life,Liberty,Freedom"?[/QUOTE]
Who gave us that right? Could we successfully enforce our claim to these rights in the face of say, government oppression?
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