• UK prisoners get the right to vote
    201 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Gentlemanne;25849260]Who gave us that right? Could we successfully enforce our claim to these rights in the face of say, government oppression?[/QUOTE] I have no idea but its not important. You could enforce those claim since that is what natural rights are for. If the government does an unsatisfactory job of unholding social order than you do have the right to kick them out.
[QUOTE=Gentlemanne;25848563]No. Have you ever heard of social contracts? Like the one between a state and it's citizens?. We accept and abide by the rules and regulations of the state, and in return we are protected from internal and external threats and gain certain rights and privilegies like the ability to vote in elections, freedom of speech and whatnot. If you break the law, you're breaking the social contract :smug:[/QUOTE] But did you ever stop to think why that's the case? All of the arguments against this law are just people reinforcing the fact that there is horrible false conciousness in society where everyone automatically accepts the values and norms of the bourgeoisie without question. "But we all must conform to the rules! The rules are perfect! The rules are unquestionable! If you break the rules you are doomed!" It's actually quite sickening.
[QUOTE=Gentlemanne;25849193]Ahaha, John "Tabula Rasa" Locke? What manner of invisible sky magician has granted you these natural, universal and inviolable rights?[/QUOTE] God Prove he doesn't exist. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Derailing" - verynicelady))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Explosions;25852021]God Prove he doesn't exist.[/QUOTE] Prove he exists. :smug: [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Derailing" - verynicelady))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Chirno;25852032]Prove he exists. :smug:[/QUOTE] Don't turn this into a religious debate. hurf durf smug face :downs: woops i missed
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;25835537]No let's stay with them so they make us a better democratic nation and give us a better currency and bolster our security and military and influence our university fees and improve our economy.[/QUOTE] Would that be the same EU that insisted Ireland hold a re-vote on the Lisbon treaty because they rejected it, and the same currency that degraded Germany's economy (the Deutschmark was the strongest currency in Europe) and crippled Greece?
Oh no a very select example of something bad and then two examples that don't apply to the UK [i]at all[/i]. [b]fuck da eu[/b]
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;25852566]Oh no a very select example of something bad and then two examples that don't apply to the UK [i]at all[/i]. [b]fuck da eu[/b][/QUOTE] So even though those points contradict your statement, you just shrug them off and say they "don't apply to the UK" - even though they clearly do. Smooth. :downs:
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;25851540]But did you ever stop to think why that's the case? All of the arguments against this law are just people reinforcing the fact that there is horrible false conciousness in society where everyone automatically accepts the values and norms of the bourgeoisie without question. "But we all must conform to the rules! The rules are perfect! The rules are unquestionable! If you break the rules you are doomed!" It's actually quite sickening.[/QUOTE] I assume you have an alternative, or are you just like all the other facepunch revolutionaries, railing against the system but with no viable option of their own.
[QUOTE=Gentlemanne;25852679]I assume you have an alternative, or are you just like all the other facepunch revolutionaries, railing against the system but with no viable option of their own.[/QUOTE] I'm a romantic fool and I dream of classless communism. :downs:
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;25825605]They do have rights! What is wrong with you?! Seriously, this line of thinking is terrifying.[/QUOTE] "Terrifying" I fucking HATE people like you.
[QUOTE=Explosions;25827188]I killed your grandma LOL PUT ME IN A HOTEL AND GIVE ME A FREE JOB SO I'M SET FOR LIFE.[/QUOTE] I donno about you but I won't check into a hotel where I have to be in there for 25 years and spend most of my day in a small cramped bunk bed. And clearly criminals are much more likely to re-offend if they have a job and stable income right?
[QUOTE=David29;25852630]So even though those points contradict your statement, you just shrug them off and say they "don't apply to the UK" - even though they clearly do. Smooth. :downs:[/QUOTE] 1. We don't have "the strongest currency in Europe" 2. We're not nearly in as shit a state as Greece was/is since/prior to joining the EU and Euro. So... the second two statements don't apply. Our situation is completely different from those that you mentioned. The shrugging continues.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;25852720]1. We don't have "the strongest currency in Europe" 2. We're not nearly in as shit a state as Greece was/is since/prior to joining the EU and Euro. So... the second two statements don't apply. Our situation is completely different from those that you mentioned. The shrugging continues.[/QUOTE] 1. That is completely irrelevant to my point. My point is that the Germans had a strong economy and a strong currency, then the Euro ruined it. This goes completely against your idea that the Euro will improve our economy. 2. See above. Greece's economy collapsed after joining the Euro. Our 'situation' is completely irrelevant. I can't think of a country off the top of my head that benefited greatly - if at all - from joining the Euro. On the contrary, I can only think of examples where it has been detrimental. The only person shrugging here is you.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;25852702]I'm a romantic fool and I dream of classless communism. :downs:[/QUOTE] Operative word here being fool.
Well duh Still, having no realistic alternative does not mean one should be completely satisfied with the current situation. That would be a very functionalist way of looking at things. [QUOTE=David29;25852795]The only person shrugging here is you.[/QUOTE] I didn't insinuate you were shrugging.
Usually, when you go to jail, you have taken rights from someone else (such as the right to own what you stole, their safety, etc.) so why do you get rights?
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825570]i'm getting really tired of these sort of people, saying prisoners should have the right to vote and you shouldn't smack your kids in public and you can't do this and you can't do that please kindly fuck off [editline]3rd November 2010[/editline] it's called punishment. if you break the fucking law, you get locked up and you learn your lesson not being able to choose who leads your country is part of this. besides, if you give that to prisoners, people start going OH WELL WE SHOULD GIVE THEM HIGH QUALITY OF LIFE and other stupid bullshit[/QUOTE] And here I was thinking prison should be about re-integrating individuals into society instead of getting them so far out of it that they're even worse when they get out than they were when they went in. Silly me :v:
[QUOTE=DeanWinchester;25854482]And here I was thinking prison should be about re-integrating individuals into society instead of getting them so far out of it that they're even worse when they get out than they were when they went in. Silly me :v:[/QUOTE] Silly you indeed.
The best way to do this is that every prisoner gets all the documents to be allowed to vote but they have to go the the local polling station outside of the prison to do it. Therefore only those in open prisons get the right to vote.
Are they citizens of the UK? Then they should be allowed to vote. /thread [editline]5th November 2010[/editline] [quote=spaghettiarms]Thy Reaper posted: Facepunch, why do you so often feel anyone who commits any crime is the scum of the Earth and deserves to be treated as such? I thought we did away with that at the end of the Dark Ages... Why should people that are jailed be unable to vote? Is there a reason beyond "They broke da law!" that any of you actually have to revoke someone's ability to be represented by their government? So if someone broke into your house, stole all your shit and burnt it down, you would be ok with them choosing which government affects you and that they'd be allowed to watch tv and be to earn money? I certainly wouldn't.[/quote] Nice straw man you have there. This is about their right to vote, not watch TV and earn money.
[QUOTE=rosar0980;25854384]Usually, when you go to jail, you have taken rights from someone else (such as the right to own what you stole, their safety, etc.) so why do you get rights?[/QUOTE] When the hell did "let's be hypocrites" become a satisfactory approach to justice?
i really don't see the issue here. if you are citizen, you have the right to vote. prisoners are citizens. [editline]4th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=The_Putty;25825570]i'm getting really tired of these sort of people, saying prisoners should have the right to vote and you shouldn't smack your kids in public and you can't do this and you can't do that please kindly fuck off [editline]3rd November 2010[/editline] it's called punishment. if you break the fucking law, you get locked up and you learn your lesson not being able to choose who leads your country is part of this. besides, if you give that to prisoners, people start going OH WELL WE SHOULD GIVE THEM HIGH QUALITY OF LIFE and other stupid bullshit[/QUOTE] yeah as it turns out that kind of 'justice' sucks shit and only serves to appease vengeful idiots like you.
[QUOTE=David29;25852795]1. That is completely irrelevant to my point. My point is that the Germans had a strong economy and a strong currency, then the Euro ruined it. This goes completely against your idea that the Euro will improve our economy. 2. See above. Greece's economy collapsed after joining the Euro. Our 'situation' is completely irrelevant. I can't think of a country off the top of my head that benefited greatly - if at all - from joining the Euro. On the contrary, I can only think of examples where it has been detrimental. The only person shrugging here is you.[/QUOTE] So neither of these two things have anything to do with the fact the entire world's economy went to shit? The euro was around a few years before everything went tits up in Greece and Germany.
Stripping individuals of their rights, no matter what they have done, isn't good. That's how most oppressive regimes started. There's a reason they call it Slippery Slope. [editline]4th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;25828479]Okay so you are in jail for illegally distributing marijuana. The law is bullshit. But now you can't exercise your right to vote against it. EVERYONE has a basic right to vote. I don't care if you are death row or a baby rapist. You have a right to vote. It's awesome that the UK did this.[/QUOTE] This. Once you start stripping people of rights due to a crime, it gets dangerous. Because who decides what a crime is or isn't? Public opinion? Not really. Not to mention public opinion is pretty easy to warp and bend.
As usual no one cares what the people think, european union and corrupt government just says "LOL LETS DO IT GUYYYYSSS".
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lITBGjNEp08[/media] I hate my country's prison system , treating like fucking gods. Why the fuck can they vote? I thought those rights where given up when they commited their crime.
[QUOTE=Arrows;25857313]As usual no one cares what the people think, european union and corrupt government just says "LOL LETS DO IT GUYYYYSSS".[/QUOTE] Best ever political analysis right here folks.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;25857396]Best ever political analysis right here folks.[/QUOTE] Oh, hello prisoner 48261, didn't see you there.
[QUOTE=Arrows;25857440]Oh, hello prisoner 48261, didn't see you there.[/QUOTE] You're so funny you have to rate yourself so we understand the joke. [editline]4th November 2010[/editline] And so we understand your political commentary.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.