Afghan massacre soldier named as Staff Sergeant Robert Bales - Polidicks

[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;35173676]Despite the fact that eyewitness testimonies are some of the most unreliable sources of information? [url]http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/eyewitnessmemory.html[/url][/QUOTE] And military reports who in the past coverup things like this are? [editline]17th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=glitchvid;35168937]Its bad, but its also understandable with all the shit that goes on there, it can really get to you; you don't know who will decide to whip out an AK And start shooting at your platoon.[/QUOTE] Yeah HE'S the victim.

[QUOTE=smeismastger;35173641]Oh, a man goes to a town and starts killing everyone there. And you call that understandable? Get the fuck out[/QUOTE] Understandable means it is possible to figure out why the guy snapped, not to agree with him. I understand that he saw his friends get mutilated and lived in constant fear of getting killed by an enemy who can just walk away and pretend to be a civilian and was driven over the edge, but I do not agree that shooting everyone is the way to solve the problem. There is a difference.

The guy probably did snap but a punishment is a punishment. Relations with Afghan are really bad at the moment so they will need to prove to the Afghani government it will be taken seriously, even if they don't want to do it.

war does terrible things to people. why can't we just all get along?

[QUOTE=SexualShark;35169200]PTSD is nasty shit. None of you understand it. Actually let me go more into this. When someone witnesses people they deeply care about get mutilated by explosions, maimed by shrapnel, shot by snipers, etc. You break. You mentally breakdown and can not think rationally. I blame his CO for this and think he should be punished.[/QUOTE] While I agree entirely, punishment won't do much for anybody. Mistakes were made, but all that can be done now is to [B]treat[/B] him and his PTS. He did something wrong, but not out of malice, but because he's goddamn cracked. He needs help. As much as he has done something absolutely horrible, he's still a suffering human, and probably not a bad one at that, with the PTSD and related psychosis aside.

Where does it even say he has this absolutely crippling and severe PTSD you guys are trying to justify this with.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35184122]Where does it even say he has this absolutely crippling and severe PTSD you guys are trying to justify this with.[/QUOTE] Jesus Mohammed Buddha, no one is justifying it. At all.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35184122]Where does it even say he has this absolutely crippling and severe PTSD you guys are trying to justify this with.[/QUOTE] This sounds like the classic tell-tale sign of PTSD. Unless you're trying to imply that he HAS to have been a psychopath before joining the Army. [quote=CNN article]The lawyer also suggested the soldier, who began his first deployment to Afghanistan in December, was not fit to serve because of injuries he had suffered on previous tours of duty. Mr Browne said that a car accident caused by a roadside bomb in Iraq had given the soldier a concussive head injury. Part of his foot had also been removed in surgery because of a battle-related wound, he added. "I think it's of interest that we have a soldier who has an exemplary record, a decorated soldier who was injured in Iraq, to his brain and to his body and then despite that was sent back," he said.[/quote] I think considering that information, this guy is probably under some form of duress, mentally and physically. How easy it must be then to have finally snapped. This isn't justification. It's trying to look for an understanding as to why he did what he did and it just goes to show that that cliche "everyone has a breaking point" is too true. Does it make it right? Hell no. It's a damn shame and he'll be dealt with swiftly and harshly.

[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;35185159]This sounds like the classic tell-tale sign of PTSD. Unless you're trying to imply that he HAS to have been a psychopath before joining the Army.[/quote] I'm saying, judging by the fact there is nothing that states he has PTSD, I'm not exactly going to assume. [quote]I think considering that information, this guy is probably under some form of duress, mentally and physically. How easy it must be then to have finally snapped. This isn't justification. It's trying to look for an understanding as to why he did what he did and it just goes to show that that cliche "everyone has a breaking point" is too true. Does it make it right? Hell no. It's a damn shame and he'll be dealt with swiftly and harshly.[/QUOTE] What the hell was this guy doing being fucking armed if he wasn't fit for duty?

[QUOTE=Starpluck;35173674]Haha I never knew Facepunch had so many U.S. military apologists that are so eager to downplay massacre.[/QUOTE] haha i never knew facepunch had so many liberals who will defend those with mental illnesses but are so eager to condemn someone who most likely has PTSD because he's an american soldier.

Oh right, the military is fucking stupid, that explains it. [editline]18th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;35185360]haha i never knew facepunch had so many liberals who will defend those with mental illnesses but are so eager to condemn someone who most likely has PTSD because he's an american soldier.[/QUOTE] And on the other hand you guys would condemn anyone with mental illness who isn't a soldier because of your throbbing hard-on for the military, yeah it works both fucking ways.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35185364]Oh right, the military is fucking stupid, that explains it. [editline]18th March 2012[/editline] And on the other hand you guys would condemn anyone with mental illness who isn't a soldier because of your throbbing hard-on for the military, yeah it works both fucking ways.[/QUOTE] No one's condemning anyone over a mental illness, at all. Point out where we've done that.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35185364]Oh right, the military is fucking stupid, that explains it. [editline]18th March 2012[/editline] And on the other hand you guys would condemn anyone with mental illness who isn't a soldier because of your throbbing hard-on for the military, yeah it works both fucking ways.[/QUOTE] actually i wouldn't i'm generally one of the ones defending people with mental illness and condemning anything done by the military. i'm incredibly anti-military and i'm a huge liberal....

The latest info on this guy is he owes $1.5 million in a fraud case, which he committed BEFORE enlisting in the military. That kind of shoots holes in the idea that maybe his military experiences caused his criminal behavior. He was criminal to start with.

This guy was a mess all around, the fact he's even in the military is fucking beyond me.

[QUOTE=Bobie;35183403]war does terrible things to people. why can't we just all get along?[/QUOTE] Because brown people, oil and mineral wealth

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;35214067]The latest info on this guy is he owes $1.5 million in a fraud case, which he committed BEFORE enlisting in the military. That kind of shoots holes in the idea that maybe his military experiences caused his criminal behavior. He was criminal to start with.[/QUOTE] In that case, I'm surprised he managed to 'hide' in the military for the better part of a decade.

Are we really getting upset attempted "justification" of this massacre? I hold the utmost respect for members of any nation's armed forces, because they choose to devote years to defending their nation. That being said, a war crime is a war crime. There is no redemption for those accused, once they are convicted. PTSD or no PTSD. I think it is clear that mental illness will not be a defining factor in the trial. From the NYT: [QUOTE]Dr. Stephen Xenakis, a psychiatrist and retired brigadier general who was an adviser to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that after a decade of combat, where hundreds of thousands of troops have sustained traumatic brain injury and P.T.S.D., those syndromes by themselves seem inadequate to explain how a seemingly normal and widely admired sergeant might have single-handedly committed one of the worst war crimes of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts. [/QUOTE] Currently he is being held in Kansas. It may be months until a trial is started, and in the end his punishment could range from life in military detention (likely) to death (unlikely, his lawyer is excellent). While it is true the man in question did have a criminal record (fraud only, assault charges were dropped) it is important to remember that he served 10 years in the service, and fought three tours (this was his fourth). Those of you that denounce him as a common criminal who was going to be neglect the fact that he served previous tours with distinction. He was called , "A damn good soldier, and a damn good leader." by a soldier who served with him in 2007. Only the ignorant would point the blame at the US military for this war crime. The accused served at a small outpost of 20-15 men. Supervision is lax at positions like these (Special Forces are trusted). And the accused had an excellent disciplinary record. It is known that the accused somehow had access to alcohol (prohibited by regulation) and he witnessed a squad mate get blown up a week earlier. Now tell me, would a pissed, drunk, and determined Special Forces soldier have the ability and will to evade the checkpoints and sentries and slink off to get "retribution" on civilians? Yes. Is it excusable at all? No.

[QUOTE=Unsmart;35173473]And yet noone gives a shit if Taliban shoots up an entire village. [/QUOTE] what!? that's nonsense. the reason why this is a big issue is because the US military should be making sure people with severe mental instability do not continue to serve. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;35181889]my point isn't a defense of the taliban, it's the fact that the taliban is a guerilla group whose recruitment is fueled even more by the fact that we're there, causing damage to their country. obviously the taliban isn't some freedom fighter group that just wants afghanistan to be a peaceful place, but in the end we can't win against them. all of our efforts result in further demolition of afghanistan, which in turn turns the public against us and sends the taliban more recruits to kill us with. and adding to that, in a thread about 16 afghanis being slaughtered in their houses, the majority of conversation is about sympathizing with the mental condition of the soldier who killed them, and [B]not[/B] about the 16 men, women and children who were killed for nothing[/QUOTE] you're damn right but there's unfortunately not much people can do for the 16 men, women, and childeren who died. what we can do is make sure that if this war is something that we have to put up with because our military leaders say so at least the soldiers are in the right shape and not mentally disturbed.