Nightclub in Germany bans refugees for 'harassing women' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=H4ngman;49103025]Really? Are we just going to act like locals don't do the exact same shit literally all the time? Assholes are part of any group, like it or not. Some refugees are also assholes. But there is no fucking law against being an asshole (believe me, [B]I'd be the first one to pass one[/B]) and this does not establish that refugees are more prone to be an asshole? Exactly how would that ever work?[/QUOTE] yeah mate that's really worrying, who decides what the behaviour of an asshole is? come on that's really disturbing H4ngman

[QUOTE=H4ngman;49103025]Really? Are we just going to act like locals don't do the exact same shit literally all the time? Assholes are part of any group, like it or not. Some refugees are also assholes. But there is no fucking law against being an asshole (believe me, I'd be the first one to pass one) and this does not establish that refugees are more prone to be an asshole? Exactly how would that ever work?[/QUOTE] Look. If a local or another European would do the same shit, as in being a fucking creep to women and consistently insulting them in a nightclub he would get his ass rightfully thrown out, get banned from the venue, and that would be the end of it, with maybe a small article in the local newspaper called ''Misbehaving bellend removed from club'' if it is a slow news day. No matter the fact, that guy won't be let in into the club again, and it is, as it should be, considered his own goddamn fault. If a refugee is doing the same stuff and he gets thrown out, he can shout ''racism!'' and suddenly it is the club's fault for throwing him out because that means the club is the one being intolerant now. And I am still pretty sure that the person misbehaving is in the wrong here. So why do they get a free pass for misbehaving then? If they didn't want to get banned from the club, then maybe they shouldn't have misbehaved in the first place.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;49102380]They can't have fun? However, they should learn to adjust their behavior to accommodate the culture that they are living in.[/QUOTE] not to be a party pooper but the money we are giving them is being spent on nightclubs rather than sustenance? lol... I guess its going back to the country, at least... [editline]12th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=H4ngman;49103025]Really? Are we just going to act like locals don't do the exact same shit literally all the time? Assholes are part of any group, like it or not. Some refugees are also assholes. But there is no fucking law against being an asshole (believe me, I'd be the first one to pass one) and this does not establish that refugees are more prone to be an asshole? Exactly how would that ever work? I just don't get how people keep drawing the same ludicrous conclusions from the information given. There is plenty wrong with the whole refugee situation but people going to nightclubs and acting like assholes is the MILDEST of them. This is a minor inconvenience that says nothing about how fucked this whole situation is as a whole. Really, there is so much going wrong at the moment and THIS is the thing that gets people upset? This sort of situation is not where opinions should be formed. Maybe you're getting the impression that I'm here to defend refugees? That's not my point, my point is that an occurrence like this is nothing to develop strong feelings about, one direction or another, because it is NOTHING compared to the REAL problems we have with this refugee situation. This entire thing establishes no solid facts about anything. Why would anyone raise their voice against the refugee situation based on this article, it just makes no sense to me. There are way bigger problems than someone getting insulted and bothered on their night out drinking[/QUOTE] It actually says a lot. A conclusion I can take from this, is that the moment they see women with less clothes and having a good time, is the moment we can see how different our cultures are, and how badly that can clash. And so what if locals do? If they do it, they are introduced to security, and thrown the fuck out. This makes headlines why? [b]Because gee, that free money that should be going for sustenance is instead going for leisure purposes, and some pretty bad leisure aswell from what we can see.[/b] It's not that we expect them to live in shit just because they are refugees and that they can't have fun. We do, however, expect them to behave like people instead of gigantic assholes who seem a few stones away from going to the extreme, if you know what I mean.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;49102380]They can't have fun? However, they should learn to adjust their behavior to accommodate the culture that they are living in.[/QUOTE] so you don't contest the fact that they were harassing women, but your response to that is "they can't have fun?" and a suggestion that harassing women is only unacceptable if the culture of the country you're in happens to frown upon it.

[QUOTE=Jordax;49103106]Look. If a local or another European would do the same shit, as in being a fucking creep to women and consistently insulting them in a nightclub he would get his ass rightfully thrown out, get banned from the venue, and that would be the end of it, with maybe a small article in the local newspaper called ''Misbehaving bellend removed from club'' if it is a slow news day. No matter the fact, that guy won't be let in into the club again, and it is, as it should be, considered his own goddamn fault. If a refugee is doing the same stuff and he gets thrown out, he can shout ''racism!'' and suddenly it is the club's fault for throwing him out because that means the club is the one being intolerant now. And I am still pretty sure that the person misbehaving is in the wrong here. So why do they get a free pass for misbehaving then? If they didn't want to get banned from the club, then maybe they shouldn't have misbehaved in the first place.[/QUOTE] Wait a fucking second I'm not defending refugees or saying they shouldn't be banned like every other asshole. I just want to say that this is not something to form a general opinion about refugees on. I don't really care about the ban itself, I'm just confused as to why this raises so many negative voices against refugees. There are valid reasons to be against refugees and I have very mixed feelings on the issue myself but everytime there is a news article like this, people seem to get some sort of affirmation of their personal bias and just start going at it. There are very solid and valid arguments against the refugee situation but someone getting harassed in a night club is not one of them. It is a normal, everyday occurrence, the only relevant part is that refugees were involved. Other than that, its nothing unusual. I don't get why this generates so many strong feelings when there are actual, real problems elsewhere [QUOTE=kweh;49103121] A conclusion I can take from this, is that the moment they see women with less clothes and having a good time, is the moment we can see how different our cultures are, and how badly that can clash. And so what if locals do? If they do it, they are introduced to security, and thrown the fuck out. This makes headlines why? [B]Because gee, that free money that should be going for sustenance is instead going for leisure purposes, and some pretty bad leisure aswell from what we can see.[/B][/QUOTE] This is exactly what I mean. How do we know that anyone spent any significant amount of money? Where does it say where that money came from? It's all just assumptions. Why form an opinion around assumptions drawn from a half-assed, sensationalist news article when there is actual, factual information to be had? People are under so much tension when refugees are concerned, everyone seems to see some sort of affirmation of their opinion in any tiny detail, no matter how frail. People should just stop reacting to sensationalist bullshit like this and form their opinions more responsibly

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;49102891]You and I both know that's never going to happen. This is just something Europe needs to accept is going to happen, did you guys honestly expect it was going to be sunshine and rainbows?[/QUOTE] We never wanted them. We knew this would happen. German government didnt care. You are not helping.

[QUOTE=Jordax;49103106]Look. If a local or another European would do the same shit, as in being a fucking creep to women and consistently insulting them in a nightclub he would get his ass rightfully thrown out, get banned from the venue, and that would be the end of it, with maybe a small article in the local newspaper called ''Misbehaving bellend removed from club'' if it is a slow news day. No matter the fact, that guy won't be let in into the club again, and it is, as it should be, considered his own goddamn fault. If a refugee is doing the same stuff and he gets thrown out, he can shout ''racism!'' and suddenly it is the club's fault for throwing him out because that means the club is the one being intolerant now. And I am still pretty sure that the person misbehaving is in the wrong here. So why do they get a free pass for misbehaving then? If they didn't want to get banned from the club, then maybe they shouldn't have misbehaved in the first place.[/QUOTE] As the article mentions: They didn't. [I]Other[/I] refugees did, which is the whole issue here. The article's conclusion also has the obvious (if practical) solution: [quote] But for Dipama there is a clear third alternative. "Of course it's unacceptable that women are harassed, but there are white men who also do this in clubs,“ he says. "So the club should react in every individual case when a women comes to them with a complaint, not make a blanket judgement.“[/quote] Are you sure you read the quote in the OP?

[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;49102395]Not all refugees are poor you know.[/QUOTE] Refugee implies that one arrives with very little resources, and in need of help IE not the kind of person to go clubbing

[QUOTE=Sableye;49103173]Refugee implies that one arrives with very little resources, and in need of help IE not the kind of person to go clubbing[/QUOTE] Not really, at least not here. If someone is displaced by (civil) war it's in theory entirely possible they have funds in the bank they can still access, or arrived with cash, or work remotely in a way they can still do if away from their home. However, if a person can't acquire the necessary visa to move legally quickly enough (which is usually the case in situations like these either way, afaict), they'd still have to go through the application process for refugees and as such be classified as such. The article really doesn't give any information whatsoever about the finances of the refugees in question though, so arguing about that here is, at best, completely moot.

[QUOTE=H4ngman;49103162]This is exactly what I mean. How do we know that anyone spent any significant amount of money? Where does it say where that money came from? It's all just assumptions. Why form an opinion around assumptions drawn from a half-assed, sensationalist news article when there is actual, factual information to be had? People are under so much tension when refugees are concerned, everyone seems to see some sort of affirmation of their opinion in any tiny detail, no matter how frail. People should just stop reacting to sensationalist bullshit like this and form their opinions more responsibly[/QUOTE] I got a better question. Why is there always someone assuming news and negative reports about refugees are always half-assed and painting a bad picture of them? I know we shouldn't look at the headline and form our opinion just from it, but people around here have "fallen" for bogus headlines with incredible ease, but since its about refugees, theres always something pulling back saying "this is bullshit slander", despite already being quite a few places reporting shit like this happening.

[QUOTE=kweh;49103256]I got a better question. Why is there always someone assuming news and negative reports about refugees are always half-assed and painting a bad picture of them? I know we shouldn't look at the headline and form our opinion just from it, but people around here have "fallen" for bogus headlines with incredible ease, but since its about refugees, theres always something pulling back saying "this is bullshit slander", despite already being quite a few places reporting shit like this happening.[/QUOTE] regressive liberalism. or maybe a better term would be Ben Affleck syndrome.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;49103269]regressive liberalism. or maybe a better term would be Ben Affleck syndrome.[/QUOTE] Huh, didn't know about that one. And now that I think about it, sensationalist readers here on FP really have fallen for bullshit articles and other stuff that is seen as positive, but was ultimately a lie. An example, the Kony 2012 incident.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;49103269]regressive liberalism. or maybe a better term would be Ben Affleck syndrome.[/QUOTE] otherwise known as progressivism, which actually isn't a liberal idealogy

Can we just all agree that there are good people and bad people among the refugees, just like any other group of people? Boy I hope some other thing will overshadow the refugee crisis, just like the refugee crisis replaced Greece. I'm sick of seeing it everywhere argahrah

This is going out of control very fast

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;49103390]This is going out of control very fast[/QUOTE] Yeah this new plague of sexual harassment in clubs is really a dark development in the otherwise bright history of drunken assholes or just assholes.

It's not really racist though, it's a genuine example of cultural differences and refugees not being shown that shit is different in the West and they can't just act like they do back home. These past few years in uni - being of Middle Eastern descent myself - I usually get approached by guys from Saudi and other Gulf countries (since I'm from a Gulf country) asking me to introduce them to my group of mixed friends (mainly the girls) and to help them get laid. It was frustrating cause I'd be relaxing with my group of friends, and they'd sorta be hovering around, waving me over. When I'd go and ask them what's up - thinking they'd just say hi or whatever - they'd ask me how they can meet girls and get them to sleep with them / what my secret to being with girls is / how they could go about getting sex. Their mentality is backwards as fuck and they don't see women as people, they just see them as potential sex objects. Women aren't [I]exactly[/I] treat like dirt back home, but I know for a fact that the widespread mindset of thinking European / Western women are dirt / whores is a major aspect of the Arab psyche. They're so used to women outright ignoring them back home, or covering up "modestly", that when they come to the West and girls actually treat them like normal human beings, and aren't covered head to toe, they take it as a sign of "yeah she definitely wants to bang". I really don't blame the club for outright banning refugees, since I can guarantee it's a major mindset of the refugees to automatically think "whore" or "will have sex with me" the minute they see a girl exposing cleavage, or dressing up nicely, or wearing a miniskirt. It's stupid as hell but that's the way they are back home, it's a given that's the way they'll behave abroad too. [editline]12th November 2015[/editline] The only types of refugees that wouldn't even think to harass women in the first place are the types of refugees that wouldn't be visiting clubs at all. The only ones going there are probably the sleazebags trying to get European tail.

I can't believe we have actual Middle Easterners in here talking about how the cultural differences are a huge problem, and yet progressives on FP still act like refugees have no unique problem with women and it's "racist" or "xenophobic" to think so. Why are they so obsessed with defending Islam when they constantly attack Christianity? Islam is the absolute antithesis of liberal values, far more so than Christianity.

Asylum seekers shouldn't be barred from a nightclub. How are they checking anyhow? I wouldn't be surprised if there are cultural differences (that of course doesn't apply to every individual in the group) in how women are treated, but then we should bar men in the bad part of town from entering as well - after all they're statistically more likely to sexually harass the women. I won't say the nightclub didn't just take the pragmatic approach, but this is just [I]very[/I] problematic.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49102967]false dichotomies and fallacies! Woo these are great reasons for refugees to go get drunk on tax payer dollars I know it's racist, xenophobic, passe, and a big social phopah to say it, but at least the odd refugee or two, are not going to follow western customs and cultures.[/QUOTE] [quote]false dichotomies and fallacies![/quote] Don't be a tool. You know full well the slippery slope point he made was a joke. Refugees are human beings. You can't just start dictating that they can't responsibly have luxuries because it upsets you that they're not living in enough squalor. If they get drunk and as a result of that, they break the law, you don't have an argument. You pay taxes so that all sorts of people, who might break the law, get benefits. You wouldn't say "well I don't want to pay taxes that go to someone's child benefit because a parent might go and get drunk" If they don't break the law, so fucking what? You really think an overwhelmingly significant proportion of refugees are going to go bankrupt to the point of starvation due to complete stupidity? No. They're not.

[QUOTE=KennethKaniff;49103711]I can't believe we have actual Middle Easterners in here talking about how the cultural differences are a huge problem, and yet progressives on FP still act like refugees have no unique problem with women and it's "racist" or "xenophobic" to think so. Why are they so obsessed with defending Islam when they constantly attack Christianity? Islam is the absolute antithesis of liberal values, far more so than Christianity.[/QUOTE] Both deserve to be criticized for having texts that justify sexism. Islam more because the people actually practice it and have it codified into law.

[QUOTE=KennethKaniff;49103711]I can't believe we have actual Middle Easterners in here talking about how the cultural differences are a huge problem, and yet progressives on FP still act like refugees have no unique problem with women and it's "racist" or "xenophobic" to think so. Why are they so obsessed with defending Islam when they constantly attack Christianity? Islam is the absolute antithesis of liberal values, far more so than Christianity.[/QUOTE] Because making themselves look "progressive" is more important than facing reality or making sense

[QUOTE=KennethKaniff;49103711]I can't believe we have actual Middle Easterners in here talking about how the cultural differences are a huge problem, and yet progressives on FP still act like refugees have no unique problem with women and it's "racist" or "xenophobic" to think so. Why are they so obsessed with defending Islam when they constantly attack Christianity? Islam is the absolute antithesis of liberal values, far more so than Christianity.[/QUOTE] yeah funny that, little Timmy the American middle class kid in a nice suburban neighbourhood talking about how cultures never clash and how different idealogies don't shape peoples' behaviours bla bla bla

[QUOTE=loopoo;49103442]It's not really racist though, it's a genuine example of cultural differences and refugees not being shown that shit is different in the West and they can't just act like they do back home. These past few years in uni - being of Middle Eastern descent myself - I usually get approached by guys from Saudi and other Gulf countries (since I'm from a Gulf country) asking me to introduce them to my group of mixed friends (mainly the girls) and to help them get laid. It was frustrating cause I'd be relaxing with my group of friends, and they'd sorta be hovering around, waving me over. When I'd go and ask them what's up - thinking they'd just say hi or whatever - they'd ask me how they can meet girls and get them to sleep with them / what my secret to being with girls is / how they could go about getting sex. Their mentality is backwards as fuck and they don't see women as people, they just see them as potential sex objects. Women aren't [I]exactly[/I] treat like dirt back home, but I know for a fact that the widespread mindset of thinking European / Western women are dirt / whores is a major aspect of the Arab psyche. They're so used to women outright ignoring them back home, or covering up "modestly", that when they come to the West and girls actually treat them like normal human beings, and aren't covered head to toe, they take it as a sign of "yeah she definitely wants to bang". [/QUOTE] And then you told them to shape the fuck up, right?

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;49102985]I'm amazed that some refugees actually have enough capital to go out partying, rather than having to worry about paying for housing and food for themselves and whoever is with them.[/QUOTE] They get free shit, and you know what they say about feeding the zoo animals. Germany is screwed. It's falling like Rome did to the Germanic tribes, most ironically. They take, and take, whilst the country suffers their burden.

[QUOTE=DohEntertainmen;49104276]They get free shit, and you know what they say about feeding the zoo animals. Germany is screwed. It's falling like Rome did to the Germanic tribes, most ironically. They take, and take, whilst the country suffers their burden.[/QUOTE] you are aware there are a ton of refugees who actually want to work and be a productive part of society, right?

[QUOTE=Warriorx4;49104271]And then you told them to shape the fuck up, right?[/QUOTE] Nah man, you can't use common sense with them. They just don't get it. I visited my cousin two Summers ago. I was in a 3 (almost going 4) year relationship with a girl I really loved. He invited me to Dubai to go clubbing and sleep with hookers: "Eh, I can't go man, I'm in a relationship" "Yeah, so? She won't know" "I love her...?" "Yeah...? She won't know!". He's now married two years later and still sleeps with hookers, but doesn't seem to understand that it's kinda hypocritical to claim he loves his wife whilst sleeping around. With the guys in uni, if I tried telling them that what they were doing was immature / stupid as hell, they wouldn't get it. Best I could do was tell em to stop asking me that kinda crap and take their shit to another group. "Haha you're just jealous because we want your girls" yeah sure, guy, that's exactly it. Kinda sad when you think about it, because pretty much all the girls in my group asked me to please stop talking with them, as they were massive creeps and perverts and made them feel uncomfortable.

[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;49104311]you are aware there are a ton of refugees who actually want to work and be a productive part of society, right?[/QUOTE] Yes, and they are the type who are properly filtered through a citizenship program, which most modern countries should rely on for proper immigration. The thought that you can just let anyone in, and give them free shit without even smudging the slightest of pride onto them is downright self-destructive.

The nightclub workers/managers/attendees don't give a shit if any of you, or anyone doesn't like it, the people who attend regularly are happy. There is no point in this even being an article, are they trying to get someone do hold a protest? The nightclub still won't give a single fuck. It's their business, let them do whatever they want, I could see myself in a very similar situation if immigrants who from there society were known to harass women or possibly have a sexist culture, then did it in my club, I would guaranteed do the same thing. It's not racism, it's about this; They don't want their business turned into a trash-pit full of scummy men from well known scummy patriarchal society.

[QUOTE=Blue Meanie;49104485]The nightclub workers/managers/attendees don't give a shit if any of you, or anyone doesn't like it, the people who attend regularly are happy. There is no point in this even being an article, are they trying to get someone do hold a protest? The nightclub still won't give a single fuck.[/QUOTE] Why wouldn't a nightclub care about its guests experiences? They have a profit incentive to be and they might be passionate about nightclub experiences.