New Polling of British Muslims Shows 52% Think Homosexuality Should Be Illegal, 23% Want Sharia
116 replies, posted
that's cute
now show me how many christians think gays should be illegal and I bet the numbers won't differ that much lol
[editline]11th April 2016[/editline]
oh wait starpluck already did that
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50110664] This post.[/QUOTE]
This is so fucking dirty and dishonest, why are you even trying to fling shit at Christianity? Does that justify these beliefs from muslims? Not to mention that you're manipulating information and outright lying.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;50111307]that's cute
now show me how many christians think gays should be illegal and I bet the numbers won't differ that much lol
[editline]11th April 2016[/editline]
oh wait starpluck already did that[/QUOTE]
Do you think christians react the same way as muslims towards LGBT population??? Can you tell me your answer with a straight face? Ask any LGBT person where would he rather live.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;50111034][img]https://i.gyazo.com/290c616a3a18f3b0dea607bd5eec9b62.png[/img]
[url]http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
The problem is not so much confidence level so much as [I]where the samples actually toke place[/I], something that is overlooked in statistics is the human aspect of it. As said earlier, they did not mention where their samples toke place.
It'd be a stronger conclusion if these samples were taken in various parts of the country and not just in a few towns in a certain region.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;50110628]Those aren't the best statistics.[/QUOTE]
Why do people always bitch about statistics whenever a poll comes out? The entire point of a poll is to poll a relatively small group of people so that you can then further extrapolate. Assuming the population of the UK is exactly 65,000,000 a sample size of 1000 gives you a 3.1% margin of error which is about in line for a 95% level of confidence.
I'm not sure why the location factors into it because it's not like out of a sample size of 1000, every single one of those persons is an extremist Muslim who wants to bomb everything. I'd say these percentages are about in line with what I'd expect.
[QUOTE=Dzonintz;50111314]This is so fucking dirty and dishonest, why are you even trying to fling shit at Christianity? Does that justify these beliefs from muslims? Not to mention that you're manipulating information and outright lying.
Do you think christians react the same way as muslims towards LGBT population??? Can you tell me your answer with a straight face? Ask any LGBT person where would he rather live.[/QUOTE]
Generally, arguments work better if you pull data to back it up.
If i were LGBT, i would avoid conservatives any religion. Discrimination is just discrimination
[QUOTE=Protocol7;50111324]Why do people always bitch about statistics whenever a poll comes out? The entire point of a poll is to poll a relatively small group of people so that you can then further extrapolate. Assuming the population of the UK is exactly 65,000,000 a sample size of 1000 gives you a 3.1% margin of error which is about in line for a 95% level of confidence.
I'm not sure why the location factors into it because it's not like out of a sample size of 1000, every single one of those persons is an extremist Muslim who wants to bomb everything. I'd say these percentages are about in line with what I'd expect.[/QUOTE]
The location aspect has been used as a rebuttal because people can influence other peoples' opinions/viewpoints. This is not me saying that people are stereotypical, this is me saying that people in closer proximity to one/another are more likely to change viewpoints of each other versus two people on opposite sides of the country.
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;50111349]The location aspect has been used as a rebuttal because people can influence other peoples' opinions/viewpoints. This is not me saying that people are stereotypical, this is me saying that people in closer proximity to one/another are more likely to change viewpoints of each other versus two people on opposite sides of the country.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough.
Honestly with these statistics I'd say it's great that 48% of Muslims in Britain do not have an opinion about or support homosexuality. That's actually pretty good if you think about it!
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;50111274]A thousand British muslims that, if done correctly, represent all muslims living in Britain.[/QUOTE]
1000 is mathematically a good sample. Near or less the square root is a good measure for accuracy. One might argue about the demographic questioned, if they picked mostly older or mostly rich or mostly 1st generation then they might get different answers from a different group. Best for everyone to accept that its not a bad poll in terms of statistics.
IMO its not such a shock. Lots of christians would have the same backwards/conservative views. A UKIP guy blamed the countrywide flooding on gays a year or so ago.
Sharia law thing is concerning but its a minority and sharia law doesn't necessarily mean religious police and stonings. It can be as much as an imam/religious leader helping settle disputes, theres also no mention of sharia law above rule of law - which would be the actual cause for concern.
Starpluck said it best above where he demonstrated muslims aren't much different from Christians in terms of beliefs
It's nothing unusual that Muslims have their own beliefs and views on the world. They see women different - because of their culture and religion they origin from, they may want Sharia law - because their culture is focused on expansion, conquer.
Well I don't know about You people, but I think that these differencer are just dangerous. As Cameron said UK is and was built on Christianity - And Islam IS dangerous to culture of Eruope built on Christianity.
[QUOTE=Knurr;50111373]It's nothing unusual that Muslims have their own beliefs and views on the world. They see women different - because of their culture and religion they origin from, they may want Sharia law - because their culture is focused on expansion, conquer.
Well I don't know about You people, but I think that these differencer are just dangerous. As Cameron said UK is and was built on Christianity - And Islam IS dangerous to culture of Eruope built on Christianity.[/QUOTE]
Shouldn't we be striving together toward secularism and a place where peoples religions don't matter? I don't like the idea of living in a muslim OR christian state. Religion should be a personal matter only.
If that's what they believe then why not move to a country that better fits their beliefs?
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;50111393]If that's what they believe then why not move to a country that better fits their beliefs?[/QUOTE]
Because, as much as they would hate to admit it, their religious beliefs are second to opportunity and money.
As is the case with anyone (99%) else. It's not specific to any religion.
[QUOTE=UnknownDude;50110663]1000 is a ridicilously small sample size. The UK has almost 1.6 million muslims. I don't think they even bothered to spread out their sample size either. My guess is they just talked to 1000 muslims in a few close-knit communities in like 2 or 3 towns max.[/QUOTE]
Well, let's take a look and see. Here is a pdf showing the full results of the (fairly large) survey: [URL="http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/Mulims-full-suite-data-plus-topline.pdf"]http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/Mulims-full-suite-data-plus-topline.pdf[/URL]
(I highly recommend including a link to the survey itself in the OP!)
On the second page it breaks the respondents down by region.
[QUOTE]16 - North East
144 - North West
120 - Yorkshire and the Humber
56 - East Midlands
134 - West Midlands
52 - East of England
405 - London
82 - South East
25 - South West
32 - Scotland
15 - Wales[/QUOTE]
Now the reason these numbers are not spread out evenly (we can see that regions such as Wales and North East have extremely few respondents) is to reflect the geographical reality of where Muslims reside in the UK. If we look at [URL="https://www.mcb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/MCBCensusReport_2015.pdf"]a report published by the Muslim Council in Britain[/URL] in 2011 on Muslims residing in the UK, assuming nothing drastic has happened in the last 5 years to dramatically change the numbers, we find this on the geographic situation.
[QUOTE=Geographical Distribution]
• The majority of Muslims (76%) live in the
inner city conurbations of Greater London, West Midlands, the North West and Yorkshire and Humberside. Muslims form 12.4% of London’s population.
• There are 35 Local Authority Districts with a Muslim population of 10% or more. There are about 70 wards with a Muslim population of 40% or more.
• The Muslim population of the London Borough of Tower Hamlets has increased from 71,000 in 2001 to 88,000 in 2011 (19%). The increase in London as a whole is 35%.[/QUOTE]
London, West Midlands, North West, and Yorkshire and Humberside had (and if nothing has changed, still have) roughly 3/4 of the Muslim population in the UK. If we take 803, the sum of the respondents from those regions, and divide it by the total number of respondents, 1081, we get ~0.743, about 3/4. This shows, I think, that the sample size of this survey was taken in good faith and does not negatively impact the survey's validity.
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;50111274]A thousand British muslims that, if done correctly, represent all muslims living in Britain.[/QUOTE]
No, but let's say we [I]did[/I] ask all the 1,600,000 British Muslims, how do you think the percentages would turn out?
0.01% (16,000) in favor of applying Sharia law to extreme extents? Or maybe as high as 0.05% of them (80,000)?
I think that's a good question, and I have literally no fucking clue. Your guess is as good as mine, maybe even better because I like a bit of irrational fear in my thought processes sometimes, but only a bit.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50111391]Shouldn't we be striving together toward secularism and a place where peoples religions don't matter? I don't like the idea of living in a muslim OR christian state. Religion should be a personal matter only.[/QUOTE]
Well religion is personal matter. But there are unwritten laws, I refer to cultural values or social agreements which just are, which in Europe were developed, also because of Christianity. Suddenly, the 'other" people appear and start telling us "No no no, my religion is better. I want my religion to be the majority. I want YOU not to drink alcohol. I want WOMEN to wear hajib".
It's bad. Tolerance? Two-sided. We were here first. These are our homes, Shouldn't they carefully obey rules which function in our homes...?
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;50111307]that's cute
now show me how many christians think gays should be illegal and I bet the numbers won't differ that much lol
[editline]11th April 2016[/editline]
oh wait starpluck already did that[/QUOTE]
No he didn't, he lied about a statistic hoping that noone would actually look through what he cited.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50110664]
Do you know what the difference was between Muslims and British Christians who think homosexuality should be allowed?[B] 10 percent.[/B]
[B]61% of UK Christians[/B] saying homosexuality should be legal vs.[B] 50% of Muslims[/B] saying homosexuality should also be legal is not a fucking big deal enough to focus on Muslims as the OP commonly does.
[URL]https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/ipsos-mori-religious-and-social-attitudes-topline-2012.pdf[/URL]
On more further polling, only 38% of Britons (Christians) think UK state-funded school science lessons should not equally teach the Genesis-story that God created the world and all the life forms in it in 6 days.[/QUOTE]
Based off the data you've provided.
21% of UK Christians said homosexuals should not have the same rights. This is not the same as saying being homosexual itself should be illegal.
In one case, being gay lands you immediately in jail. The other is too broad to make reasonable assertion on their thoughts.(Could be gay marriage disagreements, could be other legal protections such as parenthood, and even a percentage of them may have thought being gay itself should be illegal)
Even then, your comparison wouldn't be correct, the percentage of muslims who think it should be legal is 18%, not 50%. 18% believe should be legal, 22% don't care either way, 52% believe it should be illegal, 8% don't know/prefer not to say.
Compared to your survey(If the questions were the same. They aren't, but for the sake of comparison here)
Christians / Muslims
Should be legal: 61% / 18%
Don't care either way: 14% / 22%
Should not be legal: 21% / 52%
Don't know/Won't say: 4% / 8%
But this is all assuming the sample was properly created and the survey itself was proper. I can't tell you where they got the sample from(They could've looked for the most radical group they could find and grabbed 1000 out of them which would be a terrible sample) If it is a sound survey, the results actually are somewhat worrying.
The control group in the survey(1008 participants) had an 11% "homosexuality should be illegal" response by the way.
[QUOTE=Knurr;50111640]Well religion is personal matter. But there are unwritten laws, I refer to cultural values or social agreements which just are, which in Europe were developed, also because of Christianity. Suddenly, the 'other" people appear and start telling us "No no no, my religion is better. I want my religion to be the majority. I want YOU not to drink alcohol. I want WOMEN to wear hajib".
It's bad. Tolerance? Two-sided. We were here first. These are our homes, Shouldn't they carefully obey rules which function in our homes...?[/QUOTE]
Cept muslims aren't telling you to not drink alcohol. They're not here to displace you. You shouldn't feel threatened. You can carry on eating pork, drinking beer, going to church on a sunday and celebrating christmas.
Agreed muslims should follow the same rules as all of us, which they do. I don't think your concerns are realistic tbh.
Anyone who tried to force their religion onto others is in the wrong. Be it a muslim radical who wants you to be a muslim or a christian extremist who wants to force his/her religion on others or a militant atheist who [b]tells[/b] people they're stupid and wrong and atheism is the only way to go.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;50111393]If that's what they believe then why not move to a country that better fits their beliefs?[/QUOTE]
you say this as though regular non-muslim people in the UK aren't homophobic either
The only scary one there is the Sharia one, you can't make homophobia illegal as far as a personal view goes, and even then it's about framing, here in the States we have a huge Christian block that believes we should enshrine Christianity in the legal system.
You'd probably find similar statistics in Utah
As it is, secularism and gender equality are something that segment of the population really does need to work on
[QUOTE=Sableye;50111816]The only scary one there is the Sharia one, you can't make homophobia illegal as far as a personal view goes, and even then it's about framing, here in the States we have a huge Christian block that believes we should enshrine Christianity in the legal system.
You'd probably find similar statistics in Utah
As it is, secularism and gender equality are something that segment of the population really does need to work on[/QUOTE]
They want homosexuality to be illegal. That isn't the same as 'disapproving' of homosexuality.
[editline]11th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=aznz888;50111811]you say this as though regular non-muslim people in the UK aren't homophobic either[/QUOTE]
Apparently the control group had a result of 11% wanting homosexuality to be illegal, so British Muslims are (by this measure) five times more homophobic than the British public as a whole.
how about we stop looking to religion for our laws, rofl
also if you think jesus didn't fuck his followers then wtf else did he do, except Mary Madeline.
I find it hilarious how some people on here are so determined to defend Muslims with these views no matter what wrongs they do as if they'll get pat on the backs for being so "Progressive".
I remember with the Airport bombing last month that rather than try and blame the cause of the bombing, users on here were just consistently defending Islam as if it is some "Religion of Peace". Some of you really need to get your heads out of the clouds :v:
Also I'm fully aware that some Christians share the same types of views and they are just as bad but can we not criticise Islam for having members who share the same views as well? Or is it exempt from any criticism?
Chill man Islam is a Religion of Peace.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Chill man this is a meme reply" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50111675]
Anyone who tried to force their religion onto others is in the wrong. Be it a muslim radical who wants you to be a muslim or a christian extremist who wants to force his/her religion on others or a militant atheist who [b]tells[/b] people they're stupid and wrong and atheism is the only way to go.[/QUOTE]
False equivalence.
[QUOTE=Dzonintz;50112101]False equivalence.[/QUOTE]
Not really comparing them. I was saying they are all in the wrong. An islamic extremist to flays apostates and heretics is incomparable to an atheist who stands on a stage calling religious people names.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50110695]I see what you've done. You make the question 'Homosexuals should have the same legal rights in all aspects of their lives as heterosexuals' and pretended its the same thing about homosexuality being legal. Could you stop lying?[/QUOTE]
Blown out or what lol.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;50111393]If that's what they believe then why not move to a country that better fits their beliefs?[/QUOTE]
Many in my city live in their own areas that to be honest on the outset look straight up like Kabul but with better roads.
[QUOTE=aznz888;50111811]you say this as though regular non-muslim people in the UK aren't homophobic either[/QUOTE]
Well according to that source linked earlier they're ~5x as homophobic
[editline]11th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sableye;50111816]The only scary one there is the Sharia one, you can't make homophobia illegal as far as a personal view goes, and even then it's about framing, here in the States we have a huge Christian block that believes we should enshrine Christianity in the legal system.
You'd probably find similar statistics in Utah
As it is, secularism and gender equality are something that segment of the population really does need to work on[/QUOTE]
The "wanting to make homophobia illegal" thing is definitely spooky too, because while they obviously won't succeed, imagine the mindset behind someone who wants to throw homosexuals in jail
You might find similar statistics in Utah (although I couldn't find any) but if ANY place went from being fairly progressive to being similar to fucking [I]Utah[/I] there would be a problem.
[QUOTE=Guardian218;50111877]I find it hilarious how some people on here are so determined to defend Muslims with these views no matter what wrongs they do as if they'll get pat on the backs for being so "Progressive".
I remember with the Airport bombing last month that rather than try and blame the cause of the bombing, users on here were just consistently defending Islam as if it is some "Religion of Peace". Some of you really need to get your heads out of the clouds :v:
Also I'm fully aware that some Christians share the same types of views and they are just as bad but can we not criticise Islam for having members who share the same views as well? Or is it exempt from any criticism?[/QUOTE]
the point many people are trying to make, including myself, is that the actual religion of islam (or any religion) is not the actual cause. any religion can be modernized and adapted, as we see with religions such as christianity, judism, and even islam here in the west. Even if you were somehow magically capable of removing islam from the picture, you really wouldn't solve anything. the problem is that many countries in the middle east of limited access to education and outside influence, and have become very conservative and closed minded. If you magically delete all religion, they would simply find a new excuse to be that way.
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