I spent the last hour trying to find the thread where GunFox talked about all the benefits of Electric Vehicles. And when I finally found it and opened it, I realized something. GunFox was arguing with you, TestECull! He went over all this stuff back in January.
I'm just going to quote his information on Electric Vehicles, save myself more time.
[QUOTE=GunFox;34116490]I like how this is a side problem at the end of the article.
"Great, when do we start production?"
"As soon as we get the kinks worked out."
"Such as?"
"Oh, you know, the final design for the production factory, the contract with the shipping company, getting the battery to stop randomly lighting on fire, you know, the little stuff."
[editline]8th January 2012[/editline]
...And electric motors are better in every way.
Yeah I know, why drive something that produces a fraction of the pollution and has a tenth of the moving parts, when you can drive a vehicle filled with the most flammable liquid we can mass produce using an engine that converts roughly ten percent of the combustion into actual useful energy!
Hydrogen is extremely difficult to store and highly dangerous as a result. Gas stations are unlikely to ever sell hydrogen in any real quantities as electric vehicles beat hydrogen ones in every fashion available. Currently range is disputable, but there are a number of fun solutions in the battery market, but so far they have shit for easy conversion systems for gas stations that store hydrogen. Not to mention the overall danger still imposed by hydrogen in a car accident.
Electric motors require even less fluids and have a much better power to motion conversion ratio than internal combustion engines, hydrogen or gasoline. They never flood and are limited only by the physical resilience of the material and the amount of power you can shove in the pipe in terms of RPM's.
...but you just proved him right. You provided no convincing evidence or argument for choosing an internal combustion engine over an electric vehicle. Your only reasoning is the sound made by the engine.
Which will be little comfort when a family sedan can be modified with a firmware update to fucking annihilate your V8 in a straight up drag race.
Again. Electric motor. Power curve isn't a curve. It is a straight fucking line. Push the pedal and you can snap the axle instantly without electronic moderation. It can do exactly the same thing at 6 or 60 mph because there is no power drop off until ridiculously high speeds.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GunFox;34120868]In practice. The tesla roadster annihilates other cars and it isn't even particularly advanced.
You have the comparison backwards.
Why buy a computer that has a massively inefficient power supply when you can buy a computer that has more power and is several orders of magnitude more efficient?
A) No shit, there are several hundred thousand, if not million, times as many gas tanks in existence as there are hydrogen tanks.
B) hydrogen tanks don't need to rupture. That is the problem. It is a physics issue. Hydrogen is the smallest available atom, and thus needs the least amount of space in order to escape containment. A leak in your gas line is uncommon and generally easily recognized by gasoline dripping out. Hydrogen leaks would be infinitely more common and undetectable without equipment.
Less fluids to leak. Less points of failure. Lower maintenance.
Because modern engines have fail safes in place to prevent you from flooding it. I am talking about continuing to increase the fuel flow until the engine chokes. That doesn't happen with an electric motor. The more power flowing into it, the faster it spins.
(Wankel engines are an exception to this. They don't generally flood. An electric motor is still going to have a higher RPM and is unlikely to actually explode like the Wankel does when you pass its resistance threshold)
Again, fail safes and limiters that also limit performance.
They eventually flood and choke. Not to mention the massively diminishing returns as you increase the RPM's.
So why defend it. If you acknowledge that it is pointless and pure frivolity?
An axle a solid metal bar that is unlikely to ever fail in the lifetime of a vehicle barring serious driver error or massive accident.
A transmission is a box of gears that is extremely likely to fail. Destroying one is not even remotely comparable to the other one.
In related news a transmission is unnecessary for electric vehicles. For higher speeds/performance, it is recommended, but you can operate day to day movements entirely without a transmission.
Yet another point of failure removed and acceleration as well as deceleration made seamless.
Your mindset is so very alien.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GunFox;34122605]This is like refusing to switch over to quantum computing and instead sticking with current processors because you like the hum of the fans and are familiar with working with them.
Or sticking with coal plants instead of fusion tech because you like the smell and ridiculous amounts of radiation given off by coal plants.
Or sticking with CRT instead of LCD because you like the sound it makes when it turns on.
The list goes on and on.[/QUOTE]
The posts are a little confusing at points without seeing what he is responding to, but you can just follow the source links.
[QUOTE=TestECull;36574329]Track days, my friend. Track days. Many people buy a sports car capable of those sorts of speeds, then take them to a race track and flog the shit out of them where it's safe to do so. For these people being able to acheive >100MPH is a pretty big selling point, as they'll actually see that speed on a fairly regular basis.
Also, police, fire and EMS services need cars capable of those sorts of speeds, for rather obvious reasons.
[editline]1st July 2012[/editline]
Not really. There's the perfectly valid "It's nowhere near as practical as an ICE car because it takes so long to charge and runs down in half to a third of the mileage real world" argument, which won't dissipate until they get a battery breakthrough of some sort. Battery tech just simply isn't where it needs to be for EVs to be practical at the moment. There's also the "It doesn't sound right, it doesn't have a manual transmission, heavy batteries hurt handling" argument people who enjoy driving will levy. This is also perfectly valid, they want a car that sounds nice not one that sounds like a milk float. Then there's the whole "Yeah it's green [i]on[/i] the road, but that battery is terrible for the environment in both production and disposal" argument, which again is valid. As long as the drilling rigs and ships aren't run by morons fossil fuels are greener than nickel and lithium based batteries from a production and disposal standpoint.
There's also the whole problem of coal powered power plants.
If your power is generated from a coal fired power plant it's greener to use ICE than it is to use an EV. Coal power is absolutely filthy, and quite a bit of the world still uses it. Why I'll never know, but they do. Over here it's mostly the coal miners bitching about how they'll be out of a job that keeps the TVA running coal plants when they could use something a bit greener, but that only explains why the southeast uses it.[/QUOTE]
AKA "I chose to ignore serious technological and economical advancements along with a never-before flexibility in energy sources for 'wwrrrrrm wrrrrmm' and the dickwaving contest that is called sports cars"
[QUOTE=Killuah;36574734]AKA "I chose to ignore serious technological and economical advancements along with a never-before flexibility in energy sources for 'wwrrrrrm wrrrrmm' and the dickwaving contest that is called sports cars"[/QUOTE]
And your point is? Not everyone likes the same things. How dare I like something different from what you like! I mean, honestly, where do I get the gall to have personal preferences and an opinion different from someone else!
Electric cars just aren't for me. Get over it. I don't chose to ignore them, I simply don't want one. They don't fit what I look for in a car. I'm fine with them existing as long as the battery tech gets somewhere where it's practical, I just don't want one myself. Cars aren't just a tool to me. Cars are one of my hobbies. Engines are one of my hobbies. I like engines, I like hearing them run, and I like the sensations they provide when they move a car.
Oh, and not everyone buys a sports car as a dick waving measure. I happen to like how they drive and how they sound, hence my desire for one. If I could have the same sort of performance in a boring looking sedan wrapper I would.
[editline]1st July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;36574617]I spent the last hour trying to find the thread where GunFox talked about all the benefits of Electric Vehicles. And when I finally found it and opened it, I realized something. GunFox was arguing with you, TestECull! He went over all this stuff back in January.
I'm just going to quote his information on Electric Vehicles, save myself more time.[/quote]
Isn't it fucking awesome that nobody on Facepunch can grasp the apparently alien concept that not everyone looks at cars like a boring tool that's simply used as transport?
As much as we need to reduce dependency of fossil fuel, I hope batteries is only a brief stopgap. They are old tech, and if they work they work, but I'd prefer a future technology.
If only hydrogen wasn't so difficult to contain. Still reckon it will prevail one day.
I'm sort of a car enthusiast, and while I'm sad that the cars I grew up with will probably not be what I'm driving in the future I still welcome EVs. The lack of sound they make when running is uncanny, the idea of removing manual transmissions and replacing them with "push gas to go" is a bit boring and the complexity of the motors compared to internal combustion engines doesn't seem as impressive.
Moving forward is still exciting to me. I used to like the idea of hydrogen simply because filling your car would be similar to filling it with gasoline. The idea of being able to have a supply of hydrogen for emergencies is also pretty cool, assuming it could be stored safe. Moving away from explosive substances is clearly for the best though, so here's to hoping Tesla works out.
Would a racing league dedicated to EVs promote advancements? Watching F1 cars move around a track in complete silence would be pretty boring.
[QUOTE=Elspin;36573996]That's beyond not true - where I live, the majority of our power is generated from Eco-friendly hydro dams. This is obviously not true everywhere, but it's still a huge improvement[/QUOTE]
Don't Germany get more than half of their power from renewable sources? And here in the UK more and more people are opting for 'blue' energy which is renewable.
Honestly, if the lack of sound is that much of a massive problem, just play some engine sounds on the speakers or something.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;36574976]Honestly, if the lack of sound is that much of a massive problem, just play some engine sounds on the speakers or something.[/QUOTE]
It's not the same.
Maybe for you the only feelings you get out of driving come from the driving itself, for me, not.
The growl of the engine is a big deal for me. Everytime i start my bike, i get chills from the noise, it puts a huge smile on my face, and apparently on other peoples too. I've gotten a few compliments about the sounds (That's a pretty sweet sounding bike you have there, and such).
It's like saying when you're having sex you should only enjoy the friction, is it wrong to like it when she makes noise?
And not just the sounds, also the sensation of shifting gears, the way the power is delivered.
[QUOTE=garry;36560747]I love all the tech and the idea of driving an electric car.. but this car looks generic and boring. But I guess that's what they're going for.[/QUOTE]
It's nice for once to look at a electric/hybrid and not instantly be able to tell its some dorko-looking electric or hybrid.
[QUOTE=***zer0***;36575139]It's not the same.
Maybe for you the only feelings you get out of driving come from the driving itself, for me, not.
The growl of the engine is a big deal for me. Everytime i start my bike, i get chills from the noise, it puts a huge smile on my face, and apparently on other peoples too. I've gotten a few compliments about the sounds (That's a pretty sweet sounding bike you have there, and such).
It's like saying when you're having sex you should only enjoy the friction, is it wrong to like it when she makes noise?
And not just the sounds, also the sensation of shifting gears, the way the power is delivered.[/QUOTE]
Never thought I'd find someone with a genuine fetish for motor vehicles :v:
[QUOTE=Amplar;36569571]coming from someone who bought a new gen civic, can't say you're one for car design[/QUOTE]
I like cars that look different. Here's what I've owed..
[img]http://puu.sh/F0Yu[/img]
[img]http://puu.sh/F0YU[/img]
[img]http://puu.sh/F0Zl[/img]
[img]http://puu.sh/F0ZN[/img]
I couldn't imagine ever buying a ford focus or an accord. Way too generic looking for me.
[QUOTE=garry;36575354]
[img]http://puu.sh/F0ZN[/img][/QUOTE]
For some reason I never imagined you would drive something as... [I]manly[/I] as that.
[QUOTE=garry;36575354]I like cars that look different. Here's what I've owed..
*ugly lady cars*
I couldn't imagine ever buying a ford focus or an accord. Way too generic looking for me.[/QUOTE]
Wow, all of those cars are ugly as hell.
[QUOTE=Profanwolf;36575296]Never thought I'd find someone with a genuine fetish for motor vehicles :v:[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avoCP2aZFB8[/media]
[QUOTE=***zer0***;36576222]Wow, all of those cars are ugly as hell.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avoCP2aZFB8[/media][/QUOTE]
I agree though, those cars are abominations :v:
[QUOTE=Amplar;36569571]
BMW's mainstay is high end, that quote makes perfect sense
that'd be like someone comparing a car to a lamborghini and you saying it makes the statement dumb because lambo makes tractors[/QUOTE]
no, not really
the statement specifically says "the BMW". It doesn't say what [I]kind[/I] of BMW. BMW manufactures more than one type of Sedan.
In specifics, there are sedans under the 3, 5 and 7 series. Unless their plan is to have the Model S compete with all of the different sedans that BMW produces (which I guess would mean that "the BMW" is in reference to the actual company, but that's silly), then the quote isn't really making all that much sense.
[QUOTE=Captain Lawlrus;36573943]I'm not arguing the motive to speed, I'm just saying that for 100K one would expect it to achieve a faster rate of speed than a nissan maxima[/QUOTE]
Um, you do realize that since electric engines provide instant torque, one of these could easily out drag a sports car on takeoff?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxveY1R2pws&feature=fvwrel[/media]
The power goes from zero to full the moment you press the pedal. People have said it's kinda intimidating because the G force you feel when accelerating is far greater than your average gas car. In a race against a Porsche, it easily destroyed the Porsche on the straight runs but was overtaken on the turns due to lousy handling. It can easily hold it's own against most sports cars out there today. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0mU6DIZWlQ[/media]
[QUOTE=TestECull;36574329]
If your power is generated from a coal fired power plant it's greener to use ICE than it is to use an EV. Coal power is absolutely filthy, and quite a bit of the world still uses it. Why I'll never know, but they do. Over here it's mostly the coal miners bitching about how they'll be out of a job that keeps the TVA running coal plants when they could use something a bit greener, but that only explains why the southeast uses it.[/QUOTE]
Coal fired plants are still vastly more efficient than an ICE.
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