Plan C on Obamacare "Repeal now, replace later" Collapses
106 replies, posted
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52497288]If they had any balls or sense, they'll know sticking with the stupid asshole is a BAD idea. His presidency is sinking and sinking fast.
Also the fact repealing it would kill 100,000s. That would be a far bigger stain.[/QUOTE]
He's been pretty clear that not following party lines is the biggest problem they have to worry about and to ignore the problem those people will face
[QUOTE=Chonch;52483125]Wow, they really can't do anything about this, can they?
[Editline]WFB[/editline]
Here I figured this would be the sort of option these Republicans could rally around. This is a great disappointment.[/QUOTE]
If the fact that major parts of healthcare were not repealed without replacement is a disappointment to you you're a right bastard and a shitty human being without empathy.
[editline]23rd July 2017[/editline]
"I wish they indirectly caused hundreds of thousands of people to die of preventable illness"
disgusting.
[QUOTE=TheManInUrPC;52497105]That's a terrible argument to make.
Telecommunications is a heavily regulated industry compared to others. You can't do anything as an ISP without the approval from local, state, and federal governments. When you have the government so involved in something, you're gonna get at least an oligopoly.
I will say though, we have at least a somewhat healthier market compared to the likes of Canada. You only have about 3 Cellular companies to choose from in most parts of the country, and usually just one ISP unless you live in the urban city, where it isn't much better.
Anyways, I won't discuss this any further since it isn't related to the topic of this thread.
[editline]22nd July 2017[/editline]
Well, there is going to be a vote on repealing Obamacare no matter what. McConnell plans to get all Republicans on record for this. Any Republican that voted for the repeal bill back on Obama is gonna have to go on record as a defector under Trump.
Now, do you honestly expect these Republican defectors to put a massive shit-stain on their record for upcoming elections? Of course not. Now they're wisening up and getting back on the Trump Train.[/QUOTE]
Dude, you need to stop worshiping Trump. For starters, maybe change your avatar to something other than a portrait of Trump in an imperialist outfit.
Being a "defector" under a country's highest public servant - PM or president, whatever the name - isn't a fucking crime and [I]many[/I] politicians have hit highs in reputation after such "lows" of daring to go against the platform of whatever administration they're under.
Let me emphasize the public servant bit. Only Trump, or any president or other public servant in the US, should be subject to the dissent of Americans, not ever the other way around. I wouldn't be proud to live under a government that would scorn me for wanting crucial services and infrastructure to not go down the shitter.
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;52497781]If the fact that major parts of healthcare were not repealed without replacement is a disappointment to you you're a right bastard and a shitty human being without empathy.
[editline]23rd July 2017[/editline]
"I wish they indirectly caused hundreds of thousands of people to die of preventable illness"
disgusting.[/QUOTE]
That's a wrong-headed thing to say.
Nobody here is looking to kill thousands of Americans. He and I believe there is a better solution to the issue and believe that repealing this won't lead to such a result that was claimed by Chuck Schumer and other Democrats.
People are going without health insurance as it is under this current system because they can't afford it with such high premiums in states like Tennessee, etc. And what's worse about that, is that they're having to pay a penalty to boot. Think about that: They'd rather pay the penalty rather than pay for the insurance.
Understand the perspective before you judge the person.
[editline]23rd July 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;52497839]Dude, you need to stop worshiping Trump. For starters, maybe change your avatar to something other than a portrait of Trump in an imperialist outfit.
Being a "defector" under a country's highest public servant - PM or president, whatever the name - isn't a fucking crime and [I]many[/I] politicians have hit highs in reputation after such "lows" of daring to go against the platform of whatever administration they're under.
Let me emphasize the public servant bit. Only Trump, or any president or other public servant in the US, should be subject to the dissent of Americans, not ever the other way around. I wouldn't be proud to live under a government that would scorn me for wanting crucial services and infrastructure to not go down the shitter.[/QUOTE]
Alright, let me clear some things up a bit.
My profile pic is more so just a representation of my skepticism towards people who claim that Trump is a fascist. You are right that I should probably change that as it's not the most respectful thing to use and leads people to misinterpret.
And regarding the issue of "defectors". I'm calling these Republican Senators "defectors", because they don't represent the interests of their constituencies.
These are the same Senators who voted for a repeal bill back under Obama. For them to turn around with the ability to repeal it now is a slap in the face to their voters.
[QUOTE=TheManInUrPC;52497840]That's a wrong-headed thing to say.
Nobody here is looking to kill thousands of Americans. He and I believe there is a better solution to the issue and believe that repealing this won't lead to such a result that was claimed by Chuck Schumer and other Democrats.
People are going without health insurance as it is under this current system because they can't afford it with such high premiums in states like Tennessee, etc. And what's worse about that, is that they're having to pay a penalty to boot. Think about that: They'd rather pay the penalty rather than pay for the insurance.
Understand the perspective before you judge the person.
[editline]23rd July 2017[/editline]
Alright, let me clear some things up a bit.
My profile pic is more so just a representation of my skepticism towards people who claim that Trump is a fascist. You are right that I should probably change that as it's not the most respectful thing to use and leads people to misinterpret.
And regarding the issue of "defectors". I'm calling these Republican Senators "defectors", because they don't represent the interests of their constituencies.
These are the same Senators who voted for a repeal bill back under Obama. For them to turn around with the ability to repeal it now is a slap in the face to their voters.[/QUOTE]
Each proposal the Republicans in congress have made would leave 20+ million more people uninsured. The latest repeal effort, [URL="https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52939"]the Congressional Budget Office estimates would cost 32 million people to lose insurance coverage.[/URL] It should go without saying that a substantial number of people will die as a result of this action.
Whether they choose to acknowledge it or not, this is blood the Republicans have on their hands, should this repeal pass.
[QUOTE=TheManInUrPC;52497105]That's a terrible argument to make.
Telecommunications is a heavily regulated industry compared to others. You can't do anything as an ISP without the approval from local, state, and federal governments. When you have the government so involved in something, you're gonna get at least an oligopoly.
[/QUOTE]
i think it's a perfectly fair argument to make considering that the current administration is pandering to the largest companies, effectively tightening their grip and forming monopolies on services. don't know about you but "monopoly" and "free market" don't really go hand in hand.
i mention the Invisible Hand because people defend the above paragraph by saying that some invisible metaphorical force will solve the situation when historically it has never done that. large corporations will dominate markets unless regulations are put in place to encourage competition which if the latest battle of net neutrality is anything to go by we both know where the current US administration firmly stands so i can't imagine why anyone would think a "free-market" on [I]healthcare[/I], actually dealing with people's lives, is a good idea.
[QUOTE=TheManInUrPC;52497840]He and I believe there is a better solution to the issue[/QUOTE]
You believe that a better solution than the globally tried-and-true single-payer system is to double down on what makes your system so shit in the first place?
[QUOTE=_Axel;52499123]You believe that a better solution than the globally tried-and-true single-payer system is to double down on what makes your system so shit in the first place?[/QUOTE]
I'm getting the feeling every one of his responses can eventually be boiled down to "but it's the [I]AMERICAN [/I]way".
It's fucked when you refuse to learn from the success stories of other nations, yet are oh so quick to cling onto the failures.
[QUOTE=TheManInUrPC;52497840]People are going without health insurance as it is under this current system because they can't afford it with such high premiums in states like Tennessee, etc. And what's worse about that, is that they're having to pay a penalty to boot. Think about that: They'd rather pay the penalty rather than pay for the insurance. [/QUOTE]
Do you know why insurance is so expensive in Tennessee?
It's because high rates of diabetes, smoking, obesity and high blood pressure among many others — are driving up costs.
66% of the states population is overweight/obese and chronic disease is common.
Between 2014 and 2015 there was an increase in the prevalence of several diseases:
52 percent increase in major congenital heart disorders
31 percent increase in end stage renal disease
In 2016 insurance agencies projected a loss of $100 million in Tennessee because of all of the preexisting conditions that they are forced to cover.
Guess whats going to happen if obamacare is repealed? Insurance in Tennessee will drop all of those people and it looks like there is a substantial amount. The system is working as intended. It's a shame Tennessee has that many unhealthy people.
You can check my source [URL="http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/industries/health-care/2016/06/11/why-obamacare-rates-skyrocket-tennessee/85569428/"]here[/URL].
[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;52499467]There is just no way around it. Someone has to front the bill. There are a number of unhealthy people in the counpeopand that number will not change and costs will not go down no matter how much regulation is passed. Its better to have the cost diatributed evenly accross the nation than have it pocketed between a few for profit companies because the truth is everyone who uses the healthcare system either will die or be treated, most cant front the bill themselves. Removing unhealthy people from the pool doesnt do anything besides hurt them.[/QUOTE]
frankly, I believe we can cut the military budget a bit to make up for it.
[QUOTE=TheManInUrPC;52497840]That's a wrong-headed thing to say.
Nobody here is looking to kill thousands of Americans. He and I believe there is a better solution to the issue and believe that repealing this won't lead to such a result that was claimed by Chuck Schumer and other Democrats.
People are going without health insurance as it is under this current system because they can't afford it with such high premiums in states like Tennessee, etc. And what's worse about that, is that they're having to pay a penalty to boot. Think about that: They'd rather pay the penalty rather than pay for the insurance.
Understand the perspective before you judge the person.
[editline]23rd July 2017[/editline]
Alright, let me clear some things up a bit.
My profile pic is more so just a representation of my skepticism towards people who claim that Trump is a fascist. You are right that I should probably change that as it's not the most respectful thing to use and leads people to misinterpret.
And regarding the issue of "defectors". I'm calling these Republican Senators "defectors", because they don't represent the interests of their constituencies.
These are the same Senators who voted for a repeal bill back under Obama. For them to turn around with the ability to repeal it now is a slap in the face to their voters.[/QUOTE]
Why not have a good replacement plan BEFORE the old one is tossed out?
[QUOTE=Action Frank;52499907]Why not have a good replacement plan BEFORE the old one is tossed out?[/QUOTE]
Guess it's better to let the shittiness be a surprise, instead of teasing it so people can compare how the "replacement" is so many times more horrible than the current plan.
Because then they'll [I]REALLY [/I]be torn a new one by anyone not blindly following their doctrine.
[QUOTE=DChapsfield;52483254]It's almost as if replacing it would be a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
I think any system can be replaced with a better one, improvement should always be a welcome option, and Obamacare still has flaws. Of course, I don't trust the US government under Trump to be capable of presenting a superior healthcare system at all and they've proven this themselves like three times now :v:
[QUOTE=Chonch;52483125]Wow, they really can't do anything about this, can they?
[Editline]WFB[/editline]
Here I figured this would be the sort of option these Republicans could rally around. This is a great disappointment.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. If there's one thing that gets Repubicans' blood up its the chance to screw over the poor.
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