[QUOTE=Recurracy;52745171]Wasn't independence a thing they always wanted though? From what I know of the Catalonian folks they're very proud of their... Well, heritage for lack of a better word.
Probably doesn't help that Catalonia is where the money is, across all of Spain.[/QUOTE]
The independence movement has been a thing even before the second republic.
[editline]4th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;52745205]I really would hate to see Spain try to flex it's muscles by sending the military to Barcelona and then seeing extremists try to one up them
The world doesn't need the Spanish version of the troubles[/QUOTE]
If spain attacks catalonia people responding wouldn't be extremists, they would be sensible people.
Wonder what will happen if Catalonia gets recognition from Russia and we send troop in there to ensure their "sovereignity" and place rockets to point at Nato's backdoor.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52745520]Wonder what will happen if Catalonia gets recognition from Russia and we send troop in there to ensure their "sovereignity" and place rockets to point at Nato's backdoor.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to add this to my satanic guacamole, but I do wonder if Russia could supply them that long from that long of distance.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52745520]Wonder what will happen if Catalonia gets recognition from Russia and we send troop in there to ensure their "sovereignity" and place rockets to point at Nato's backdoor.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Megadave;52745544]I'm going to add this to my satanic guacamole, but I do wonder if Russia could supply them that long from that long of distance.[/QUOTE]
Well... There was this pissed russian driver yesterday:
[video]https://twitter.com/lluvia__azul/status/915170788076072960[/video]
In the last bit he says that we have no fucking clue what happened in Russia and that we'll soon have weapons here.
[t]https://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/twitter/103/thinking-face_1f914.png[/t]
[QUOTE=Megadave;52745544]I'm going to add this to my satanic guacamole, but I do wonder if Russia could supply them that long from that long of distance.[/QUOTE]
Well they have a port in Crimea now, if Turkey will let them through. Certainly a lot easier than passing through the Strait of Gibraltar if worse comes to worst.
[QUOTE=DaWhatTheFox;52745567]Well... There was this pissed russian driver yesterday:
[video]https://twitter.com/lluvia__azul/status/915170788076072960[/video]
In the last bit he says that we have no fucking clue what happened in Russia and that we'll soon have weapons here.
[t]https://emojipedia-us.s3.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/twitter/103/thinking-face_1f914.png[/t][/QUOTE]
Well, I don't think it's related to Russia providing weapons (which they could and might do, even if putin previously said that it is "an internal issue"), rather I think it's directed to the suffering caused to everyone involved and what happens when open conflict breaks out; I mean, if you want weapons, you'll find a way to get them.
That's at least what I understood, since he first says (sic) "You have no fucking idea what means grenade launcher, sons of bitches, against (the) people", and then he continues "Keep recording, keep recording, you have no fucking idea of what happened in Russia. You'll soon have weapons here, soon, you'll see", then he drives for a meter or two and says "I wish you one thing: that you never pick up weapons. But they will give you weapon, you'll see, they will give you weapon". Then finally, before the video cuts, he says to the mossus on the left "Because of your fault, you will have a civil war" (Which I understand refers to their inaction, since he appeared today in Espejo Publico and further elaborated on the issue, speaking about how frustrated he was about not arriving in time at his job because of the roads getting blocked and so on)
[QUOTE=David29;52745223]If that's the case, then it's a lot more understandable. However, I still question the legitimacy of their declaration somewhat. Turnout for the referendum was only 42%. Of that, 90% voted for independence. Therefore, if my maths is right, only 37.8% of the Catalonian population has voted for independence.[/QUOTE]
Thats a high turnout considering the surrounding events. it's kinda fair to assume there's at least another 10% in the remaining 58% that would also have voted for independence.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;52745626]Thats a high turnout considering the surrounding events. it's kinda fair to assume there's at least another 10% in the remaining 58% that would also have voted for independence.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but that's a lot of assuming. And you can't declare independence on the back of an assumption. Also, in the Brexit referendum, the result was 51.9% voting to leave - and that was followed extensively by claims that it wasn't a high enough result to justify leaving the EU.
[QUOTE=Coment;52745266]Municipalities also have their own taxes, the most known ones for mecanized vehicles and real estate. So it's three layers of taxes, for better or for worse.[/QUOTE]
Isn't this pretty standard?
In the US, you pay federal taxes, state taxes and city taxes.
[editline]4th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=alexelgeco;52745109]If Catalonia gets independence (I don't think they will, Spain could execute article 155) it will fuel more separatist movements.
The EU also said that they don't want Catalonia to go, It'll make a lot of things harder.[/QUOTE]
What is article 155?
It could set a bad precedence for western states to start breaking apart, and at the worst possible time.
Russia is influencing western elections, annexing territories while the west is too hesitant to get involved, if Western Europe "Balkanizes" so to speak it becomes all the more easy for them.
So which meme folder should I use?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52745720]Isn't this pretty standard?
In the US, you pay federal taxes, state taxes and city taxes.
[editline]4th October 2017[/editline]
What is article 155?[/QUOTE]
The Spanish Constitution's Article 155 says
[quote]Were an Autonomous Community not to follow the obligations that the Constitution and other laws mandate upon it, or acted in a way that deeply affected Span's general interest, the Government, after requiring the President of the Auton. Comm. without success, with an absolute majority of Senate, may take all the necessary measures to force it (the community) to comply or to protect the mentioned general purpose[/quote]
In layman's terms, if they do shit that affects Spain greatly or disobeys the Constitution (and the independence declaration does both), the Govt can have a vote (and it would pass) to do whatever it takes to restore the order in there (likely sending armed police to detain Puigdemont and all other participants; taking control of the autonomy's police... You name it.)
[QUOTE=David29;52745223]If that's the case, then it's a lot more understandable. However, I still question the legitimacy of their declaration somewhat. Turnout for the referendum was only 42%. Of that, 90% voted for independence. Therefore, if my maths is right, only 37.8% of the Catalonian population has voted for independence.[/QUOTE]
That's because only 42% could make it there with Spain shooting them and beating the crap out of them
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52745976]That's because only 42% could make it there with Spain shooting them and beating the crap out of them[/QUOTE]
NPR said that the "no vote" Catalans were told to stay home as a boycott, so they didn't vote altogether.
Not sure why or how many followed doing so. It would greatly explain why 90% of those who did vote, voted for independence.
I mean it makes sense that the people who went out of their way to take part in an illegal referendum would be those that voted yes.
So the results aren't conclusive with 100% certainty but at the same time what's the alternative if Spain isn't allowing an undisrupted vote to take place?
I honestly don't care if it's illegal, if the people want to separate, they should be able to
[QUOTE=Kljunas;52746115]I mean it makes sense that the people who went out of their way to take part in an illegal referendum would be those that voted yes.
So the results aren't conclusive with 100% certainty but at the same time what's the alternative if Spain isn't allowing an undisrupted vote to take place?[/QUOTE]
Would also explain the lack of counter-protests against independence, perhaps.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52746126]I honestly don't care if it's illegal, if the people want to separate, they should be able to[/QUOTE]
So would you allow Quebec to be independent?
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52746169]So would you allow Quebec to be independent?[/QUOTE]
Does Quebec have hundreds of thousands protesting on the street or a strong independence movement or police brutality by the government? Stupid argument you're making. Entirely different situation between catalonia and quebec.
We may not be the biggest laughing stock in Europe anymore, thanks Spain!
Talk about fucking up this badly.
[QUOTE=Orkel;52746187]Does Quebec have hundreds of thousands protesting on the street or a strong independence movement or police brutality by the government? Stupid argument you're making. Entirely different situation between catalonia and quebec.[/QUOTE]
You see, the problem in here is: Catalonia already had autonomy, big autonomy. Were NOT repressed like kurdish people were, are the richest zone of Spain and so on.
Reminder that even Italy had protesters for independence, like in fucking Lombardy: a goddamn party was born to separate from the roman government, by the slogan "Roma ladrona", and then guess what now. It became a national party, unfortunately the third party of Italy, vowing to get out of EU.
While police brutality... by that, the entire United States of America would secende from the US, and the entirety of Italy too. Of course, it is the shittiest thing ever done and Rajoy is a buffoon, but prove me that the catalan population were repressed excluding this week. Prove me that Catalonia was always discriminated or repressed or never represented in the last ten years.
...I've been Picking up Chatter that the EU probably won't allow Catalania Independece right now, but they didn't like the Police Brutality...at all.
Their reasoning of the EU not allowing independence, Too many links between the Campaigners and Russia.
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52746169]So would you allow Quebec to be independent?[/QUOTE]
If they wanted to of course
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52746165]Would also explain the lack of counter-protests against independence, perhaps.[/QUOTE]
That day there were counter-protests on[URL="http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/latest-police-give-deadline-catalan-school-occupiers-50195992"] Barcelona itself[/URL], [URL="https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/30/inenglish/1506785995_823125.html"]Madrid[/URL], [URL="http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/thousands-rally-for-unity-across-spain-ahead-of-catalonia-vote"]Valencia, Vitoria (Basque), and a few others.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Coment;52746271]That day there were counter-protests on[URL="http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/latest-police-give-deadline-catalan-school-occupiers-50195992"] Barcelona itself[/URL], [URL="https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/30/inenglish/1506785995_823125.html"]Madrid[/URL], [URL="http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/thousands-rally-for-unity-across-spain-ahead-of-catalonia-vote"]Valencia, Vitoria (Basque), and a few others.[/URL][/QUOTE]
Snipp
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52746291]He was referring to protests in Catalonia, you know, the region that wants to be independent.[/QUOTE]
Barcelona is in Catalonia.
Which means that it's likely most people there wasn't independence
[editline]4th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kljunas;52746295]Barcelona is in Catalonia.[/QUOTE]
Well fuck my geography then
[editline]4th October 2017[/editline]
Still if you compare the sizes of the protests it's clear
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52746298]Which means that it's likely most people there wasn't independence
[editline]4th October 2017[/editline]
Well fuck my geography then
[editline]4th October 2017[/editline]
Still if you compare the sizes of the protests it's clear[/QUOTE]
Of all the people who voted, only 48% went to vote, and some of those were even done in other booths.
So is clear that all this is a shitfest, that both Madrid and Barcelona are wrong and that the constitution is not only a piece of paper.
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52746326]Of all the people who voted, only 48% went to vote, and some of those were even done in other booths.
So is clear that all this is a shitfest, that both Madrid and Barcelona are wrong and that the constitution is not only a piece of paper.[/QUOTE]
Probably because they were being beaten
Keep in mind that there's people that voted MULTIPLE times.
[t]http://static.elcorreo.com/www/multimedia/201710/01/media/cortadas/combo-vota-nino-kPW-U40924922895FZB-624x385@El%20Correo.jpg[/t]
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